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#1845420 - 02/15/11 09:19 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Takem]
lon0121 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2718
Loc: southern kentucky
Originally Posted By: Takem
I have to defend the HMR. I started using it this season. I too had read the nay saying but knew a few experienced ethical hunters that vouched for it. It is the only thing I use now. Very impressed. Drops them a whole lot better than a 22 mag. Thats what my friend uses. Not sure why. He also uses fragmenting ammo. I guess the extra fps makes a difference. I know that statement is far from scientific but it's been our experience with a few dozen red foxes between the two of us this season. Doesn't wake up the neighbors either. PM me if you have any questions. I have tons of pics of foxes shot with hmr. Autopsy pics too, showing the damage to the shoulder. Bullet goes in and doesn't come out. Shot some over hundred yards at night and some as close 5 yards. Well one was 5 yards and almost ended up in my lap. When people say it's not enough gun and they had foxes run off I'm dumbfounded. If that's true Why doesn't it happen to me? Has to be a bad shot. Maybe a bad shot on the first outing with the hmr left a bad taste in their mouth. It would make me skeptical too I suppose. But if someone says they have used it more than a few times on foxes with the same results they need to hit the range because they're shooting poorly and blaming the caliber. Maybe it's like when the guy with the 300 mag tells me my 243 is too light for 50 lb sika deer. I'm not sure what else to say except ignore the negative posts. They're wrong. 100% positive, not a single doubt.


i take it you yourself have in fact shot the 22 magnum at fox and have proof in the pics that it DOES NOT drop fox better than the 17??? im not asking about your friend shooting it, i want to know how you yourself did with both calibers when putting both in the same spot on the critter! and then you say the 17 drops fox better than a 22 magnum? educate us sir!


Edited by lon0121 (02/15/11 09:29 PM)
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#1845426 - 02/15/11 09:21 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: lon0121]
WvYotehunter65 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 1304
Loc: West Virginia
I have to take the side that says no, the 17 is not a good choice for fox. The 22 WMR is a way better choice.
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I like my beer cold, my women warm and my coyotes silver and silky!

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#1845480 - 02/15/11 09:40 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: WvYotehunter65]
muddydog Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Texas
Seems like people either love or hate the 17. I bought me one last year to nite hunt with. I didnt shoot any fox but I did shoot about 50 coons. It wouldnt kill a coon with a single body hit. I now am on the hater side. There just aint enough lead to kill effectively in the event of a poorly placed shot. Why shoot a marginal gun? There are tons of better calibers or use a shotgun. Killing an animal is serious stuff and they all deserve a quick humane kill.

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#1845493 - 02/15/11 09:43 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: WvYotehunter65]
RC2125 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Indiana/Michigan border
Got a nice grey with the hmr a few years back. Just over 100yds, slight angle broadside, 17gr vmax, bullet went in and fragmented into tiny pieces. The largest little fragments and plastic tip were just beneath the skin on the opposite side of the rib cage, bang/flop. Very impressed with how it worked, that one time.
On the flip side, have had poor results on MANY coons core/body shot with the hmr. Coons are considerably tougher than any fox though. Better all around results with the 17gr vmax bullets rather than the 20's. Did many tests with the 20's into all kinds of dead critters, meats, etc at all kinds of ranges. Have yet to recover a 20 that actually produces any kind of expansion, let alone fragmentation, usually just some slight deformation of the hollow point.
Playing with the 17 tnt's this season, but haven't had much cooperation with the critters so far. Hoping there will be a bit less fragmentation with a little more penetration.

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#1845496 - 02/15/11 09:45 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: muddydog]
lon0121 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2718
Loc: southern kentucky
Originally Posted By: muddydog
Seems like people either love or hate the 17. I bought me one last year to nite hunt with. I didnt shoot any fox but I did shoot about 50 coons. It wouldnt kill a coon with a single body hit. I now am on the hater side. There just aint enough lead to kill effectively in the event of a poorly placed shot. Why shoot a marginal gun? There are tons of better calibers or use a shotgun. Killing an animal is serious stuff and they all deserve a quick humane kill.


i shot a coon with mine twice in the chest and it still squirmed about making a gurgling dying noise! i shot it in the head and he was lights out! i did drop opossum DRT with it with chest shots. can a 17 drop a coyote/ fox/ coon! sure! it can be done! but you must make a clean vitals hit if not aiming at the head. Same with a 22wmr. although a 22 magnum hits alot harder....the 17 reaches a little bit farther out but like any gun loses energy! and flinging a 17 or 20 grain pill at a target like a fox at far distances it is CRUCIAL to hit vitals.....or headshot! we have had the song and dance before..
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#1845517 - 02/15/11 09:52 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: lon0121]
muddydog Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Texas
I dont care how good of shot you are. The 17 is marginal on any game bigger than a ground squirrel at best!

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#1845530 - 02/15/11 09:58 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: muddydog]
Takem Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 647
Loc: Southeast PA
Originally Posted By: muddydog
I dont care how good of shot you are. The 17 is marginal on any game bigger than a ground squirrel at best!


Another ignorant pile on comment

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#1845548 - 02/15/11 10:02 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Takem]
muddydog Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: Takem
Originally Posted By: muddydog
I dont care how good of shot you are. The 17 is marginal on any game bigger than a ground squirrel at best!


Another ignorant pile on comment


And another followed

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#1845551 - 02/15/11 10:03 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Takem]
lon0121 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2718
Loc: southern kentucky
Originally Posted By: Takem
Originally Posted By: muddydog
I dont care how good of shot you are. The 17 is marginal on any game bigger than a ground squirrel at best!


Another ignorant pile on comment


as always you will have difference of opinion than others on a sore subject like this.....nothing educational ever comes from these posts! trust me!

pretty soon, we will have a pi55ing contest on this very thread!
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#1845554 - 02/15/11 10:05 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: lon0121]
muddydog Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Texas
The 17 is marginal, why do you think there are so many post of people asking opinions?

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#1845574 - 02/15/11 10:12 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: muddydog]
ARDave Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1064
Loc: Arkansas
I have killed piles of fox with a 22 mag. If I were just hunting fox, thats all I'd use. I gurantee you its plenty of gun under 100 yards (for fox). I used the 40 grain hollow points. Never had a problem with them running off. I have seen them killed just as dead with the 17 though too. I like the 22 mag over the 17 myself. Thats just me though.


Edited by ARDave (02/15/11 10:15 PM)
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#1845598 - 02/15/11 10:25 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: lon0121]
jj1980 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 345
Loc: Oklahoma
Fun to shoot, not my first choice for killing! Seen some well placed shots work and some good shots not work. If you reload load down some .223 and use a less "explosive" bullet if your worried about a fur friendly round.

My 2 cents, which doesn't mean much!

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#1845605 - 02/15/11 10:30 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: jj1980]
muddydog Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 238
Loc: Central Texas
[quote=jj1980]Fun to shoot, not my first choice for killing! Seen some well placed shots work and some good shots not work. If you reload load down some .223 and use a less "explosive" bullet if your worried about a fur friendly round.



Well said. Best post in this thread


Edited by muddydog (02/15/11 10:31 PM)

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#1845622 - 02/15/11 10:39 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: muddydog]
davejohnson3 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 136
Loc: NY
okay well i did some research, and looking at ballistics data a 17 hmr with a 17 grain bullet hits with about 25 more ft lbs of energy at 125 yards (either that or 150yards, forgot) but anyways, so i think that the numbers speak for themselves. a lot of guys around here use the 17 for fox and i was just trying to get some more opinions. after trapping several fox and interacting close with them i have little doubt that a 17 wouldnt be enough for them. once the skin is off, they are smaller than a stray cat almost. i plan on only taking good shots and not just flinging bullets. as to coons, heck! i cant even kill em with a 12 gauge half the time! coons are TOUGH! and very fatty. sometimes they just have a will not to die. my buddy that coon hunts said often it takes 6-7 body shots to get one to fall out of the tree, and after that they are still often alive. i shot one once with my bow 4 times, and it walked off with all my arrows, until i got him pinned with the 5th. hopefully i will see for myself how it works

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#1845687 - 02/15/11 11:19 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: davejohnson3]
lon0121 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2718
Loc: southern kentucky
a 40 grain pill out of a 22wmr is deadly!

best thing you can do is like you said! go see for yourself!

good luck!


lonnie
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