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#1844871 - 02/15/11 02:39 PM 17 hmr for fox?
davejohnson3 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 136
Loc: NY
so i have done some searching about this but there seems to be 2 sides to the story. some claim they drop fox out to 200 yards with a chest shot, and some say that you can shoot one 5 times with one and it will just laugh and walk off rolleyes

so does anyone on here have any personal experiences with using a 17 on fox? i would most likely be calling and shooting grays about 70% of the time if that matters at all. i would probably only have shots 100 yards max

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#1844881 - 02/15/11 02:51 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: davejohnson3]
larr Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 1578
Loc: marylands eastern shore
never had a problem shooting red fox out to 175 yards, never had to shoot one more than once either. i hunt two farms and the longest shot i could take is about 350 yds but i wouldn't use the 17 hmr for that distance. i just call them in close (about 100yds) and shoot them. never had a runner yet. i shot one in the chest at 175 yds and it drooped him in his tracks. I'm sure you will hear other people who will disagree with me but I'm telling you this from my experience.
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#1844931 - 02/15/11 03:25 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: larr]
Bax Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 656
Loc: Murray, UT
I think a fox is the limit for 17 HMRs. And that is pushing it in my personal opinion.

Before I say any more though, keep in mind: only you are the one who can determine if you are comfortable using a .17 HMR on a fox.

My personal experience is that the .17 HMR really looses its energy quickly, so you would really want to be sure of shot placement. If you shoot beyond 100 yards, I would personally be careful not to hit him in a boney area because I am not convinced that it would penetrate enough to cause a fatal wound.

100 yards would be the MAXIMUM that I personally would shoot a fox at. However, there are others that pull longer shots off regularly and the fox is DRT. I still think its not wise to shoot a coyote with one though...

Ultimately it just boils down to your comfort level and skill level IMO.
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Light does travel faster than sound. This is proven by people that seem bright until you hear them speak.


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#1844934 - 02/15/11 03:29 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Bax]
davejohnson3 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 136
Loc: NY
i wouldnt use it for yotes, just fox, actually i came across some ballistics numbers where a 17 actually carries more energy beyond 100 yards than a 22 mag, and i have heard of people shooting them that far with a 22 mag.

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#1844970 - 02/15/11 04:02 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: davejohnson3]
getfoxy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 9630
Loc: USA
Heres my story. I called in a red to 35yards (roughly) I shot him with the 20g gamepoint right in the chest. He was facing me. Very little blood and no recovery. I say no for the 17hmr.

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#1844971 - 02/15/11 04:03 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: davejohnson3]
getfoxy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 9630
Loc: USA
Double post.


Edited by getfoxy (02/15/11 04:04 PM)

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#1844985 - 02/15/11 04:12 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: getfoxy]
Bax Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 656
Loc: Murray, UT
Originally Posted By: getfoxy
Heres my story. I called in a red to 35yards (roughly) I shot him with the 20g gamepoint right in the chest. He was facing me. Very little blood and no recovery. I say no for the 17hmr.


Do you wonder if it had to do with the bullet hitting bone? Those game point bullets seem to be pretty explosive in my experience. The .17 HMR seems to do best on soft tissue, but once a bone is introduced, it seems to lack the penetration you would expect.

I shot two jack rabbits standing next to each other some time ago. One was slightly obscured by a small bush and the other was fully within view. I shot the one within full view first about mid-torso and he dropped instantly and was DRT. Then I set my sights on the other that was slightly hidden by the bush and shot him in the upper shoulder. The jack then started screaming and flopping all around. When I came up on him, I noticed that his front shoulder was broken, but the TNT bullet I shot him with never penetrated beyond the bone. So I ended up having to finish him off up close. I wonder if that is where the .17 HMR's weakness lies?
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Light does travel faster than sound. This is proven by people that seem bright until you hear them speak.


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#1844989 - 02/15/11 04:14 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: davejohnson3]
lon0121 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2718
Loc: southern kentucky
Originally Posted By: davejohnson3
i wouldnt use it for yotes, just fox, actually i came across some ballistics numbers where a 17 actually carries more energy beyond 100 yards than a 22 mag, and i have heard of people shooting them that far with a 22 mag.


read this,
http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

i vote magnum! just take less farther shots.


Edited by lon0121 (02/15/11 04:19 PM)
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#1845037 - 02/15/11 04:48 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: lon0121]
getfoxy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 9630
Loc: USA
Luke, its possible, but just the reaction of the fox to the shot, you can tell he just wasnt impressed with what I brought to the party lol

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#1845053 - 02/15/11 05:07 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Bax]
ARCOREY Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 4839
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Luke Baxter
Originally Posted By: getfoxy
Heres my story. I called in a red to 35yards (roughly) I shot him with the 20g gamepoint right in the chest. He was facing me. Very little blood and no recovery. I say no for the 17hmr.


Do you wonder if it had to do with the bullet hitting bone? Those game point bullets seem to be pretty explosive in my experience. The .17 HMR seems to do best on soft tissue, but once a bone is introduced, it seems to lack the penetration you would expect.

I shot two jack rabbits standing next to each other some time ago. One was slightly obscured by a small bush and the other was fully within view. I shot the one within full view first about mid-torso and he dropped instantly and was DRT. Then I set my sights on the other that was slightly hidden by the bush and shot him in the upper shoulder. The jack then started screaming and flopping all around. When I came up on him, I noticed that his front shoulder was broken, but the TNT bullet I shot him with never penetrated beyond the bone. So I ended up having to finish him off up close. I wonder if that is where the .17 HMR's weakness lies?


I would say you probably hit the void between the bones if anything. My experience on groundhogs, which tend to be tougher than fox, is that the 20gr. Gamepoints penetrate too deep on fleshy gut shots and require a bone like a skull or shoulder blade to initiate expansion. The 17gr. polymer tips seem to splash on bone, but blow out nice in fleshy areas. I use the 20's and shoot for heads and shoulders on everything. I used my 17HMR exclusively while trapping this year and there was no pelt damage on any of my takes and most were head shot. These animals included coons, red fox, skunk, possums, and a groundhog. The possums were the only ones that didn't drop DRT. I did shoot some of these animals free range at a distance while on my way to the traps. Distances were point blank to 80yds.

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#1845147 - 02/15/11 06:32 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: ARCOREY]
Heretic Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 2377
Loc: Las Vegas
I've had no luck with my .17 HMR on Jack Rabbits out to 80 yards. I wouldn't try .17 HMR on anything else. Great target gun, a lot of fun to shoot, but as for killing power - I've not had a positive experience.

My friend recently took a 60yd shot at a coyote with his .17 HMR. Head shot, coyote shook it off - literally. Started trotting away, when another buddy had a shot with his .223. Dropped in it's tracks.

I'm sure others have had better experiences but I'm convinced a heavier round with more energy is required, at least where I hunt, for fox, bobcat, etc.
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#1845285 - 02/15/11 08:17 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Heretic]
Kzone Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 305
Loc: NY
Quote:
My friend recently took a 60yd shot at a coyote with his .17 HMR. Head shot, coyote shook it off - literally. Started trotting away, when another buddy had a shot with his .223. Dropped in it's tracks.


Where was the hit from the hmr.? At that distance a centered head shot will put a big hurtin on a yote for that matter any head bone hits will be alot more than a shake off more like hittin the ground and then maybe get up.


Edited by Kzone (02/15/11 08:21 PM)

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#1845359 - 02/15/11 08:48 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Kzone]
Takem Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 647
Loc: Southeast PA
I have to defend the HMR. I started using it this season. I too had read the nay saying but knew a few experienced ethical hunters that vouched for it. It is the only thing I use now. Very impressed. Drops them a whole lot better than a 22 mag. Thats what my friend uses. Not sure why. He also uses fragmenting ammo. I guess the extra fps makes a difference. I know that statement is far from scientific but it's been our experience with a few dozen red foxes between the two of us this season. Doesn't wake up the neighbors either. PM me if you have any questions. I have tons of pics of foxes shot with hmr. Autopsy pics too, showing the damage to the shoulder. Bullet goes in and doesn't come out. Shot some over hundred yards at night and some as close 5 yards. Well one was 5 yards and almost ended up in my lap. When people say it's not enough gun and they had foxes run off I'm dumbfounded. If that's true Why doesn't it happen to me? Has to be a bad shot. Maybe a bad shot on the first outing with the hmr left a bad taste in their mouth. It would make me skeptical too I suppose. But if someone says they have used it more than a few times on foxes with the same results they need to hit the range because they're shooting poorly and blaming the caliber. Maybe it's like when the guy with the 300 mag tells me my 243 is too light for 50 lb sika deer. I'm not sure what else to say except ignore the negative posts. They're wrong. 100% positive, not a single doubt.

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#1845370 - 02/15/11 08:53 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Takem]
GameEarGabe Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 869
Loc: SE,PA
I mostly call in areas where it is rimfire or shotgun only so I shoot a 22 mag. To me it only makes sense to go with the most you can use when dealing with rimfires. I shoot a Savage 93 with heavy barrel.

Gabe
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#1845393 - 02/15/11 09:03 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: getfoxy]
Bax Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 656
Loc: Murray, UT
Originally Posted By: getfoxy
Luke, its possible, but just the reaction of the fox to the shot, you can tell he just wasnt impressed with what I brought to the party lol


Ha ha. It sounds like a game of poker. "I see your .17, and raise you a .223"


I think the best use I have personally found for the .17 HMR is exposure for new shooters. No recoil to be felt, and accurate. I have gotten a lot of friends interested in shooting by using this caliber.
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Light does travel faster than sound. This is proven by people that seem bright until you hear them speak.


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