.223-8 twist vs .243 for deer inside 200 yds

tika223

New member
Is there any real practical difference between the 8-twist .223 with a heavy bullet (80-94 gr) - and a .243 - 10 twist with a l00 gr bullet when it comes to coyote or even deer? Is it reasonable that a .223 should eventually become widely accepted as legal for deer?
 
I think it should, I have killed several with a .223 and it worked fine with a 55g sp. A white tail isnt a hard animal to kill. Generally speaking.
 
Oh now your asking a "LEGAL" question, and an International question to boot . If it's not legal in your area, there's probably no way of knowing the "when" of that question, unless you start pushing your Fish and Wildlife people and your government people.
 
Originally Posted By: tika223Is there any real practical difference between the 8-twist .223 with a heavy bullet (80-94 gr) - and a .243 - 10 twist with a l00 gr bullet when it comes to coyote or even deer? Is it reasonable that a .223 should eventually become widely accepted as legal for deer?

I don't know how good the real heavy bullets for the 223 would since you can't get any hunting bullets. The heaviest hunting I know is a Swift 75 gr.
 
The minimum here is 24 caliber centerfire and I think it should stay that way.

The general accepted measurement for deer is about 1000 lbs energy which is about 100 yds for the .223.
The .243 will put out 1000 at about 300 yds.
Deer size varies by region and breed.
This adds up to more lost game in my mind.
 
Although some will argue that the .223 is adequate for deer, IMO it can't compete on any level with a .243 and proper bullets. I personally believe that the .243 is too light for deer( at least our deer, which could reach 300#) but between the two, take the .243 every time.
 
Originally Posted By: tika223Is there any real practical difference between the 8-twist .223 with a heavy bullet (80-94 gr) - and a .243 - 10 twist with a l00 gr bullet when it comes to coyote or even deer? Is it reasonable that a .223 should eventually become widely accepted as legal for deer?

Go ahead and use the .223 Ive killed 2 deer with .22 centerfires and both have been DRT

One doe at 112 yards with my .22-250 with a 55g Sp, behind the shoulder bang flop, entrance and exit.

One doe at 180 yards with my .223 and a 52g MHP, behind the shoulder, no exit

The doe with the .223 was a window of opertunity. I was yote hunting one of the last days of gun season, and still had my doe tag. This doe hoped out at 200 and i waited till it came to 180 and I poped it behind the shoulder and it knocked it on is [beeep]. I was very weary of the 52g Mhp on the deer, beacuse its such a frangable round, but it worked. Next time ill be useing 55g Sp when seasons overlap.

Negatives of .22 centerfires are little to no blood trail, and you need to have %100 confidence where your putting your bullet, no margin for error.

If you dont have a good SP, put it in the neck. Or dont take the shot

Also i heard the TSX are the best .22 centerfire bullet for deer


~Bryan
 
Just because you can kill a deer with a 223 does not make it a good choice. Personally, I don't think it's catridge enough, and should not be allowed. One can take a 22 rimfire can kill deer, but that does not mean it is catridge enough either. I have killed a couple of deer with a 223, so I can speak from personal experience. The 243 is a much better choice for deer, and I consider it to be minimal. Some people will recommend the 223 for kids because of the recoil factor. I think if someone can't handle what little recoil a 243 has, then they have no business hunting in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: hayseed1How many 300 lb. Whitetails have you seen in Cattaraugus county?

A 300 lb whitetail is a rarity if ever isn't it? Mule deer are vry very rare to find a 300+ pounder let alone a whitetail.


To address the O.P though most of the time you will be better off taking the larger caliber when you have a quandry like this one. Does not mean it can not be done but our goal as sportsman is to be as efficient and responsible with our game as possible and if more gun means more knock down and less lost animals in general that is the way I would lean every time. BUT as a matter of fact I have a friend who is an excelent marksmen and uses 22-250 for elk and mule deer and he does very very well.
 
There is another site with a forum in which people are shooting deer with various calibers, bullet styles, etc and posting pictures of entrance, exit, and organ damage. They also post picture of the cleaned up deer with the organs removed. After reviewing those one would be hard pressed to argue the 223 isn't big enough. Some of those deer have some pretty big exit wounds. Also the 223 "big game" bullets do quite the number on bones before exiting. Reports of DRT kills are a bit higher with "varmit" type bullets in the 55 gr range though. Also remember the military considered the 223 a 300 yard gun on targets that shoot back.
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That said, I read the question as asking if there was a difference between the 223 and the 243 on deer. The 223 isn't really close to being able to cause the kind of damage that can be done with a 243 or 25-06.

Would I use the 223 on deer? if it were allowed in my state I sure would. It would be perfect for the way I hunt.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3The general accepted measurement for deer is about 1000 lbs energy

Guess they should outlaw bowhunting. It does not generate the "1000 lbs"... or even the more prevelant 1000 ft/lbs
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223 may work... but I personally dont care for it for even coyotes... too slow and ive put good shots on coyotes and watched them run 100 yds. I can imagine what a deer will do. 22-250 is as small as I would go and if I had the option of rifle hunting for deer id stick with a 243.
 
Go to the long range hunting site and view a few of the 600 to 800 yard DRT coyote shots on video.

I think bullet selection is one of the many reasons people have such a different view point on the 223. It is probably also one of the reasons people think you need 338 RUMs to hunt elk.
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also, someone gave me a box of 223 factory rounds that say 3800 fps on the box. That's not very slow in my book. My prefered load is 3200 fps though.
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Quote:Is there any real practical difference between the 8-twist .223 with a heavy bullet (80-94 gr) - and a .243 - 10 twist with a l00 gr bullet

The biggest difference will be in the choice of bullets available. Heavy (long) .223s will almost certainly be VLD match bullets, not specifically designed for hunting (though they may work). I would also doubt that a 1:8 twist barrel would properly stabilize a long VLD .223. I believe in 1000yd match shooting where the VLD .223s are commonly seen, they have to use 1:7 or 1:7.5 twist barrels to stabilize them.
 
I shot a deer with my AR this year using a 70gr TSX. I'm fairly certain it would work well on any whitetail any where......
 
I didn't say that 300# deer were common....and I have seen a few over the years in Cattaraugus County. Hunt with a .223 all you like. If a 300# deer ever presents me with a 250 yd quartering-on shot....I'll be very happy I'm not using a .223.
 
Quote:Guess they should outlaw bowhunting. It does not generate the "1000 lbs"... or even the more prevelant 1000 ft/lbs

I would be happy if they outlawed bowhunting as it produces wasted animals year after year on our property and has been a huge point of argument among the user groups in this state. I understand the principal of bowhunting large diameter cutting and leaving a blood trail.
They don't allow .224 diameter broadheads for hunting deer locally either. Minimum 7/8" diameter. Arrow weight 300 gr. along with many other stringent requirements.

If .223 were legal everywhere it could turn into a problem.
as you see most everyone "Qualifying" their approval with certain bullets and twist rates. Many .223 bullets are not going to leave much if any blood trail. Same as seen on coyotes.
Our state used to have minimum energy requirements for big game hunting with certain handgun restrictions.
Now it is a minimum .24 caliber for deer & up. .22 centerfire minimum for cougar.
This leaves another Idiot window where a .25 auto pistol becomes legal, along with a few others.


Last time I checked when referring to rifle stats, 1000 lbs energy = 1000 ft/lbs.
 
Originally Posted By: coleridgeOriginally Posted By: tripod3The general accepted measurement for deer is about 1000 lbs energy

Guess they should outlaw bowhunting. It does not generate the "1000 lbs"... or even the more prevelant 1000 ft/lbs
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Bullets kill with energy....broadheads dont
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