New AR15 6mm NFA Caliber
- Thread starter WSMBUCK
- Start date
MPFD
Active member
Originally Posted By: WSMBUCKBlack Hole will make the barrels and the first 4 barrels being built will be 1 in 9 - 20"
My bad, I have only ever seen 1-10 6mm barrels listed on their webiste. I'm glad they are gonna tool up for a 1-9 twist. Might be time to order a AR10 barrel...
My bad, I have only ever seen 1-10 6mm barrels listed on their webiste. I'm glad they are gonna tool up for a 1-9 twist. Might be time to order a AR10 barrel...
Originally Posted By: WSMBUCKBlack Hole will make the barrels and the first 4 barrels being built will be 1 in 9 - 20"
Guys one thing i can say about this list above is they all great rds , But like i have said before you cant get any of those for the price of a standard price upper, which is one of the goals Ritch and Paul was going for here, being able to offer everyone a wildcat caliber without the cost of $150 dies and $1000+ uppers.
Your prices may be a bit embellished. From an unknowing outsider, it simply looks like a facsimile of Dedicated Technology’s marketing stratagem. This is naturally, just my lay observation.
John
Guys one thing i can say about this list above is they all great rds , But like i have said before you cant get any of those for the price of a standard price upper, which is one of the goals Ritch and Paul was going for here, being able to offer everyone a wildcat caliber without the cost of $150 dies and $1000+ uppers.
Your prices may be a bit embellished. From an unknowing outsider, it simply looks like a facsimile of Dedicated Technology’s marketing stratagem. This is naturally, just my lay observation.
John
knockemdown
New member
Originally Posted By: WSMBUCKBut like i have said before you cant get any of those for the price of a standard price upper, which is one of the goals Ritch and Paul was going for here, being able to offer everyone a wildcat caliber without the cost of $150 dies and $1000+ uppers.
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
Originally Posted By: knockemdownOriginally Posted By: WSMBUCKBut like i have said before you cant get any of those for the price of a standard price upper, which is one of the goals Ritch and Paul was going for here, being able to offer everyone a wildcat caliber without the cost of $150 dies and $1000+ uppers.
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
That makes perfect sense. What I would like to see is since Black Hole Weaponry and New Frontier Armory are working together on this project, they may be able to get the caliber ironed out, produce some quality barrels and then assemble a quality rifle/upper. This seems to be what happened with their 6x45 project. They offered a quality product at an affordable price and made many guys here very happy!
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
That makes perfect sense. What I would like to see is since Black Hole Weaponry and New Frontier Armory are working together on this project, they may be able to get the caliber ironed out, produce some quality barrels and then assemble a quality rifle/upper. This seems to be what happened with their 6x45 project. They offered a quality product at an affordable price and made many guys here very happy!
bigsky_songdogs
New member
For half the price, the NFA uppers that sooo many on here have seem to shoot as well as the custom uppers that many on here have. So if you can get an off the shelf upper from NFA that is half the cost for the same performance, then i dont see how it is so much better to get a custom, except for the fact that it is custom and exactly what you wanted. As far as performance it does not always come down to price, if it did then there would be no one buying cheaper savages and stevens, because if it directly correlated with performance they would be horrible, when in actuallty they shoot excellent for a $250 rifle. Just my .02 and my opinion.
I have been following this thread from the begining. I for one, am in favor of new offerings. I have several ARs so this will only give me reason to buy more. If this thing works it will be great. If not, at least some body is trying.
I don't understand all the negativity. These guys are trying to do something new. The rest of us are sitting around waiting and doing nothing. I think we should at least give them a little credit.
I don't understand all the negativity. These guys are trying to do something new. The rest of us are sitting around waiting and doing nothing. I think we should at least give them a little credit.
Hoier
New member
Originally Posted By: onzahI have been following this thread from the begining. I for one, am in favor of new offerings. I have several ARs so this will only give me reason to buy more. If this thing works it will be great. If not, at least some body is trying.
I don't understand all the negativity. These guys are trying to do something new. The rest of us are sitting around waiting and doing nothing. I think we should at least give them a little credit.
Yeah I don't understand why everyone is busting their balls.
I don't understand all the negativity. These guys are trying to do something new. The rest of us are sitting around waiting and doing nothing. I think we should at least give them a little credit.
Yeah I don't understand why everyone is busting their balls.
Chupathingy
New member
Originally Posted By: HoierOriginally Posted By: onzahI have been following this thread from the begining. I for one, am in favor of new offerings. I have several ARs so this will only give me reason to buy more. If this thing works it will be great. If not, at least some body is trying.
I don't understand all the negativity. These guys are trying to do something new. The rest of us are sitting around waiting and doing nothing. I think we should at least give them a little credit.
Yeah I don't understand why everyone is busting their balls.
Gotta be some "behind the curtain" stuff.
Chupa
I don't understand all the negativity. These guys are trying to do something new. The rest of us are sitting around waiting and doing nothing. I think we should at least give them a little credit.
Yeah I don't understand why everyone is busting their balls.
Gotta be some "behind the curtain" stuff.
Chupa
Originally Posted By: knockemdown
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
I have to disagree with some of this statement mainly because my factory $800 DPMS AR shoots one hole groups just like my boss's $1400 custom Remmy bolt action????
I guess that new pistol at Cabelas is a better pistol then the exact same one I can get off Bud's is better because it cost more???
Sorry but that saying "You get what you pay for!" Is out dated and a lot of people need to remember a lot of company's are more money hungry now then they have ever been. I could go on and on but some people just need some reason as to why they spend more money on some things.
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
I have to disagree with some of this statement mainly because my factory $800 DPMS AR shoots one hole groups just like my boss's $1400 custom Remmy bolt action????
I guess that new pistol at Cabelas is a better pistol then the exact same one I can get off Bud's is better because it cost more???
Sorry but that saying "You get what you pay for!" Is out dated and a lot of people need to remember a lot of company's are more money hungry now then they have ever been. I could go on and on but some people just need some reason as to why they spend more money on some things.
Howard Nguyen
New member
Originally Posted By: dmpowderOriginally Posted By: knockemdown
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
I have to disagree with some of this statement mainly because my factory $800 DPMS AR shoots one hole groups just like my boss's $1400 custom Remmy bolt action????
I guess that new pistol at Cabelas is a better pistol then the exact same one I can get off Bud's is better because it cost more???
Sorry but that saying "You get what you pay for!" Is out dated and a lot of people need to remember a lot of company's are more money hungry now then they have ever been. I could go on and on but some people just need some reason as to why they spend more money on some things.
It is simply because they can afford it and take pride in it as something very few or no others have.
Custom dies are custom dies, they cost what they cost. To think one set of custom dies will be any cheaper than another would imply that the overall quality is not on par.
That point also goes hand in hand with the price of custom barrels. The cost of custom tubes are pretty much a DIRECT correlation to their quality. Like the old saying, you get what you pay for. If $120 dollar barrels shot like $350 barrels, they'd COST $350 too.
Then one needs to factor in gunsmith WORK. Merely assembling an upper is no big deal. The average shooter with a few tools can assemble a complete upper easy enough. A few hours time in the garage & you got something to shoot!
However, the WORK a of reputable gunsmith takes specialized tools & the 'know how' to use them.
Truing receivers, cutting custom chambers, threading barrels, profiling & fluting barrels, installing brakes, bead blasting & finish work etc. are just some of the tasks a competent gunsmith performs. And usually a smith's lead time is a direct correlation to the quality of their work. After all, the shooters waiting patiently on line for months on their build MUST have a good reason to, don't ya think???
Just some more things to consider when one attempts to compare a $500 upper to one twice the price. Obviously, the time & care taken to build each is not equal. Nor is the quality of the components in the build, or extra finish work involved to complete it...
Fact of the matter is, that both are probably worth EXACTLY what ya paid for 'em...
This is not meant to slam the 'do it yourself-ers' out there, you have my respect!
On the other hand & as stated above, there are very valid reasons why custom guns cost what they do.
And very valid reasons for why a basic upper assembly job can be done 'on the cheap'.
I can admire & use both to get the 'job done'. But I'd not go so far as to compare one to the other...
I have to disagree with some of this statement mainly because my factory $800 DPMS AR shoots one hole groups just like my boss's $1400 custom Remmy bolt action????
I guess that new pistol at Cabelas is a better pistol then the exact same one I can get off Bud's is better because it cost more???
Sorry but that saying "You get what you pay for!" Is out dated and a lot of people need to remember a lot of company's are more money hungry now then they have ever been. I could go on and on but some people just need some reason as to why they spend more money on some things.
It is simply because they can afford it and take pride in it as something very few or no others have.
Chupathingy
New member
Originally Posted By: GregWNo dog in this fight at all but posting ballistic tables that weren't thought out very well about a cartridge that exists only on paper right now seems a little strange...
Again, which is worse? Posting a projected number...or publishing an out and out lie? Look at the back of the next box of factory ammo you buy.
Chupa
Again, which is worse? Posting a projected number...or publishing an out and out lie? Look at the back of the next box of factory ammo you buy.
Chupa
Chupathingy
New member
Originally Posted By: GregWThey clock those numbers using long tubes to get there...
Deceptive still, do you not agree?
Deceptive still, do you not agree?
GregW
New member
No more than any commercial you see on TV advertising a product.
The folks that really care about those numbers and achieving them should start to reload. It's more gratifying than complaining about published factory velocities. 99% of joe rednecks don't really care, let along the .04% of those loonies who run factory cartridges over a chrono.
Deceptiveness is trying to reach published velocity in reloading manuals...grin
The folks that really care about those numbers and achieving them should start to reload. It's more gratifying than complaining about published factory velocities. 99% of joe rednecks don't really care, let along the .04% of those loonies who run factory cartridges over a chrono.
Deceptiveness is trying to reach published velocity in reloading manuals...grin
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
The chamber print will tell the tale.
Without that nobody knows anything. Just a bunch of ill informed guesses
Jack
Without that nobody knows anything. Just a bunch of ill informed guesses
Jack
The Wolverine
New member
Originally Posted By: GregWThey clock those numbers using long tubes to get there...
Nope.
That is the 6mmAR that used a 26" barrel.
The Numbers in the OP I ran with a 20" barrel, my barrel will be 18". We will post real numbers with both, when we get them.
You guys are killing me, the numbers are deceptive?, and not thought out?, because I had height of site above bore at 1.5"? You must be joking.
Think about what you are saying, you do realize that the trajectory will "appear" to be flatter if I raise height of site above bore to 2.5" ?
If I was trying to make things "look better", I would have ran them at 2.5".
"If it costs more it's better"? you must work for the government.
Nope.
That is the 6mmAR that used a 26" barrel.
The Numbers in the OP I ran with a 20" barrel, my barrel will be 18". We will post real numbers with both, when we get them.
You guys are killing me, the numbers are deceptive?, and not thought out?, because I had height of site above bore at 1.5"? You must be joking.
Think about what you are saying, you do realize that the trajectory will "appear" to be flatter if I raise height of site above bore to 2.5" ?
If I was trying to make things "look better", I would have ran them at 2.5".
"If it costs more it's better"? you must work for the government.
Last edited:
knockemdown
New member
Originally Posted By: Wolverine"If it costs more it's better"? you must work for the government
Don't work for the Gov't, but I can say (and I'm sure MANY will agree) that specifically within the context of custom firerarms, you indeed get what you pay for.
Are you implying then, that if something costs LESS (due to cheaper parts and less custom work), it is 'just as good' as a product that uses higher quality parts with more precision & care taken to assemble them?
Which sounds more silly?
After all, gunsmiths don't make much money on parts, they charge accordingly on TIME spent for WORK performed.
And here is the crux of why I've made my comments in this thread.
I'm sure that any of the higher end (if you will) custom AR builders could start slapping together cheap uppers using lower quality parts to deliver a product to market at a lower price point. The reason(s) they don't are their own.
The fact of the matter is that custom AR smith's uppers cost more is in direct correlation with the WORK they perform on their products and the quality of the products they use to build them.
Originally Posted By: WolverineYou guys are killing me, the numbers are deceptive?, and not thought out?, because I had height of site above bore at 1.5"? You must be joking If I was trying to make things "look better", I would have ran them at 2.5".
Not so much deceptive, but surely showing a level of ignorance enough to raise an eyebrow. And I've never felt the 'dummy defense' did much to bolster one's reputation.
That, combined with the original announcement of a "new caliber" (more ignorance) that will outperform the current stable of 6mm wildcats, from an unspecified parent case no less?
No wonder there hasn't been a reamer print (let alone a description of case dimensions) provided.
Originally Posted By: JackThe chamber print will tell the tale.
Without that nobody knows anything. Just a bunch of ill informed guesses
Finally, the barely veiled implication that a lower priced product will equal the quality of a true custom product is not only inaccurate, it's downright disrespectful to those custom builders who strive to put out the BEST product they can, one happy customer at a time.
If you've really got yourself a 'winner', then more power to ya! I'm sure that the the previously noted gunsmiths who've already developed their own wildcats will be quite impressed, if indeed that's the 'case' (pun intended)...
I'm done.
Best of luck with your new 'caliber'.
Don't work for the Gov't, but I can say (and I'm sure MANY will agree) that specifically within the context of custom firerarms, you indeed get what you pay for.
Are you implying then, that if something costs LESS (due to cheaper parts and less custom work), it is 'just as good' as a product that uses higher quality parts with more precision & care taken to assemble them?
Which sounds more silly?
After all, gunsmiths don't make much money on parts, they charge accordingly on TIME spent for WORK performed.
And here is the crux of why I've made my comments in this thread.
I'm sure that any of the higher end (if you will) custom AR builders could start slapping together cheap uppers using lower quality parts to deliver a product to market at a lower price point. The reason(s) they don't are their own.
The fact of the matter is that custom AR smith's uppers cost more is in direct correlation with the WORK they perform on their products and the quality of the products they use to build them.
Originally Posted By: WolverineYou guys are killing me, the numbers are deceptive?, and not thought out?, because I had height of site above bore at 1.5"? You must be joking If I was trying to make things "look better", I would have ran them at 2.5".
Not so much deceptive, but surely showing a level of ignorance enough to raise an eyebrow. And I've never felt the 'dummy defense' did much to bolster one's reputation.
That, combined with the original announcement of a "new caliber" (more ignorance) that will outperform the current stable of 6mm wildcats, from an unspecified parent case no less?
No wonder there hasn't been a reamer print (let alone a description of case dimensions) provided.
Originally Posted By: JackThe chamber print will tell the tale.
Without that nobody knows anything. Just a bunch of ill informed guesses
Finally, the barely veiled implication that a lower priced product will equal the quality of a true custom product is not only inaccurate, it's downright disrespectful to those custom builders who strive to put out the BEST product they can, one happy customer at a time.
If you've really got yourself a 'winner', then more power to ya! I'm sure that the the previously noted gunsmiths who've already developed their own wildcats will be quite impressed, if indeed that's the 'case' (pun intended)...
I'm done.
Best of luck with your new 'caliber'.