I need input on these groups and Burris Ballisticplex scopes

Yellowhammer

Yellowhammer

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As some of you saw, I shot at a hog at 250 yards last week and a black coyote at 215. The coyote I know I missed as I saw dust fly, the hog I am not so sure about now.

I am shooting a Dtech 20 inch 1/8 twist running Black Hills 60 grain V-max loads. This rifle is topped with a Burris FFII 3-9x40 with the Ballistic Plex recticle. I knew it was on at 100, and figured the second recticle mark was 200. Venatic seemed to think I was high if I shot the second mark.

The hog I shot at was right at 250 in an open pasture, but I though he was more like 150 so I held dead on. He ran off, and no blood was found.

The black coyote was 215 we ranged later, but I though he was 200 and I was shooting down hill. I saw the dust fly so close to him I could tell where it hit, but I was holding the second mark in my scope.

Anyway after trying to figure it out, I went to the range today to find out.

I also carried my other AR a Rock River 18 inch A4 varmint shooting some of Venatics reloads with 55 grain Hornady softpoints. This rifle is topped with a Burris FFII 4.5-14x42 with ballisticplex recticle.

So here are the results, and I need some input on what they mean.

The first thing I did was shot a 3 shot group at 200 with the 60 v-max holding the second mark in the scope. here are the results:

200yrdgroups.jpg


A 2.2" group about 3 inches high. That tells me I did indeed shoot just over the back of that black coyote.

No here is the confusing part. This picture shows the 3 shot group (left side) I shot with the other rifle and the 4.5-14 and also holding the second mark. It was pretty much right there and shot a 2.2 inch group.

The right hand group was still at 200 but holding dead on with the 60 grains. They were about the same size group, but a little low and 2.5 inches left.

You can see the same thing on the one shot on the right of the first picture. So, why is is shooting left when holding dead on at 200?

Here are the groups for both rifles at 100.

100yard55graingroup.jpg



60vmax100.jpg


So, good 100 yard groups, and pretty good I thought at 200. But why are those 200 yard dead on shots left but not at 100?

Looks like if I had aimed dead on that black coyote, I would have got him. Assuming I could shot these same type groups off of shooting sticks which may not be good assumption.

By the way, what little wind there was, was quarting a little left to right if anything.
 
I only see one shot group at 200 yards. what i would do is zero your gun at 200 yards. it really isnt going to shoot that much higher at 100. ill guess around 1in to 1.5in high at 100. i sight my 223 and 22-250 in at 200 that way i dont have to do any hold over at 200.
 
Looks as though you are atleast a .25" left on you 100yd zero, I would bring it dead center and reshoot the 200. What power was the scope on when you took the shots at the animals and at the range?

Ive got a ballistic plex Viper that Im going to play with once I get the time and figure out my drops on the reticle at a couple different power settings since it will change depending on what power it is on and Vortex only gives the measurements at full power.
 
All groups were shot at high power, either 9 or 14.

Here is the other 200 yards groups.

200yardgroups2.jpg


I don't remember what that shot in between the two was. They guy shooting the 16 inch AR10 in .308 next to me wasn't helping me any.
 
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Here is the thing to remember. Ballistic plex, bdc, etc..... they are just points of reference. Rarely are these reticles designed for a specific load/cartridge. I use a burris AR 332 on my dtech. This scope a drop compensator out to 500 yards for a 55 grain 223 bullet. This scope zeroed in at 100 yards then using the next point of reference is 2-4" at 200 yards high depending on conditions. Then when shooting at 200 yards with the first point of reference the crosshairs is 2-4" low. The difference between the two is 6". The moral of story is sight in for a 200 yard zero then you should be dead balls accurate with a dead hold from 100 - 300 yards try it out.
 
Couple of things. I ask only because I didn't see it mentioned. Were you at a bench with bags? If you had a solid rest I would have a friend also shoot the same number of shots. I don't know how much range time you have, and please I'm not trying to impune your abilities, but sometimes we're doing things that we don't know we're doing. That's why I suggest two shooters. If you both get the same result then you have your answer. As of now, it could be the gun or it could be the shooter. Based on your 100 yard group, I'm leaning toward it's you, but again don't know. As others asked, was there wind or any other range conditions that might affect the groups. I've done the two shooter thing before and it really helps. Make sure whoever you use though is a decent shot. Good luck, let us know what you find out...
 
Measure your groups if you consistently shoot 1" groups at 100 then a 200 with good conditions you should be expecting 2" groups.
 
Are the cross hairs dead level? I had a similar experience and after making sure the crosshairs were square with the action the problem disappeared. I know one of the tests for cross hair leveling is to shoot a group then turn the turrets up several inches and see if the second group is straight up from the first. Not sure if it would apply to your b-plex hash, but maybe a possibility.
 
There was a little breeze quartering slightly from left to right towards me.

It was on a bench at the range with front and back bags. I don't profess to be "one hole all day long shooter" by any means.

I was a happy with the groups at 200, just not sure why it was left at 200 when aiming dead on, and not so much when shooting the 200 yard hash mark.

It does appear I need to move it a click or 2 right. The 1/4 to 1/2 inch left at 100 could equate to 2 inches at 200.

Or as stated, it could just be me. Even at 9 power, that 3 inch diamond looks pretty small.
 
Are the cross hairs level? Looks like they may be canted just a little bit if im not mistaking that will move your POI and darn sure once you get out aways.
 
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Trigger control. It will cause you to string your group horizontal. Maybe your gun does not shoot that load good past 100 yards, try another load or two. Every body should practice longer shots to see what there guns will do. Good luck.
Chris
 
Originally Posted By: deerhunterjjAre the cross hairs level? Looks like they may be canted just a little bit if im not mistaking that will move your POI and darn sure once you get out aways.
I was thinking the same thing.
 
The way I zero the ballistic plex is to shoot all groups at 100 yards. Make up a target on a sheet of cardboard with the x at the bottom of the cardboard. Then shoot your 100 yard group, it should be in the x (or there abouts). Then shoot a group holding the first dot on the x, then the second, etc. If you and your gun are shooting well it should tell you what your approximate holdover/drop you have for each dot. Compare these numbers to a ballistic table based on a chronographed measure of your load. You should be able to get a working mans dope table for each dot. Then, most importantly, you need to go and shoot those distances that your dope table tells you and fine tune those numbers.

The problem with the Ballistic plex scope with fast cartridges is that the center and first dot many times are a waste of your time, as the Point blank range for the crosshairs exceeds the first dot. I loaded up a 7SAUM load with a 100 grain bullet for antelope hunting and it was MPBR of 270 yards and the first dot was 230 yards (from memory so results may vary). This should not be an issue with the 223.
 
http://www.burrisoptics.com/pdf/BALLPLEX.pdf

Here's a link to Burris' bplex directions, it shows subtensions for the holdovers. Keep in mind these scopes are second focal plane, meaning these subtensions will only apply at a single specific power (Burris states this would be full power for the 3-9 and I've found this true for the 4.5-14 as well).

Without knowing the muzzle velocity of your loads, we can only guestimate where you were shooting. dogtired has provided some solid reccomendations here for truly realizing the full capabilities of this reticle.

I'm a big fan of this reticle, but it is not a "silver bullet". If you will shoot your specific load as dogtired has described above and then confirm the findings by shooting groups at 200, 300, 400, and 500yds then you will truly begin to see and reap the benefits of this reticle. YMMV. Be sure to keep good written record of your range time.

Here's an example of my 55gr load (220 Swift) "come up" chart for shooting eggs out to 500yds

100yd - hold dead on
200yds - split dead on and 1st holdover
300yds - 1st holdover @ top of egg
400yds - 3rd holdover at bottom of egg
500yds - 4th holdover at top of egg

This is going from memory, but you should get the point.
 
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Stormking's link is about the best resource available for the various methods of zeroing ballistic reticles.

You can do the shoot at 100 yds. for each stadia system, but all you're really doing is just measuring the stadia subtensions with a bullet instead of using the 1" target grid system through the optic, or yardstick. That info can be either measured as noted or referred from the optics catalogs.

I never sacrifice PBR for a reticle. I sight in for a conservative PBR and if the stadia don't match intuitive hundred-yd. intervals than i just match the subtension to the trajectory at the highest power, recalculate the ballistics profile if i need to and then recalc. the profile in 50-yd. intervals. Oftentimes i may not even know what a stadia's zero is in the field if it doesn't fit my 50-yd. system. Here's what it looks like in the Butler Creek scope cap cover--

IMG_0649.jpg


...obviously range, vertical trajectory, then 10 mph windage (plex post tips, whatever's available). All in a Butler Creeks scope cap cover.

There are simple ways to alter subtension by adjusting power (to create a more intuitive hundred-yd. system), and can actually be calculated "longhand" as well, but it takes some mathematical gymnastics.
 
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