Years ago I bought a Tika 22-250 with a 1:14 twist rate. I bought this gun to shoot flat and out to 400 yds. I will guess that the 1:14 twist rate shoots lighter bullets with less drop further. Now my question is what are some good bullet choices that are light that also have really good expansion with quick kill. I have a couple of AR 15 with 1:8 and 1:9 that will shoot heavier bullets up to 60 gr. but really don't understand why the 22-250 has the 1:14 twist rate.
22-250 why a 1:14 twist rate
- Thread starter rickyb
- Start date
Chupathingy
New member
This is guess on my part: The point of the .22-250 is speed, other wise what's the point. The faster the twist the more resistance is imparted on the projectile affecting speed, also faster twist usually means longer bullets...also affecting speed. However you can get "faster" twist 250's, but in my mind it seems to defeat the purpose. Like I said though, that's a guess.
Chupa
Chupa
ricky, I am no ballistics expert but it is my understanding the faster you push a bullet the less twist you need. Now having said that I believe a lot of manufactures would help us a bit by speeding up the twist to accommodate a wider range of bullets. I think alot of gun makers are stuck in the old days when to hype their gun they had to get the velocity up to a certain speed. Also understand that their are always compromises in anything they put out there. Just my opinion. Dave
dogmessiah
New member
Your AR's should be able to shoot a lot heavier bullet then 60gr. Mag length will probably be the limiting factor on them. I have good luck with 75gr A-max in a 1:9. If you already have 60gr bullets, roll a couple of them up for your 22-250, they should be border line on whether they stabilize or not, and some guns will some won't
Happy_Hunter
New member
Hi rickyb,
I'd rather ask why a 1:9 twist on a 223. The 22-250 is a great varmint round. It was designed to shoot up to about 55gr pills. These are very well suited to varmints. A 1:14 is just right for most conventional 55gr pills. So the 1:14 twist suites the pill weight which suites the intended game.
So back to my question - why a 1:9 on a 223? Lets just get some background in here first. In the hunting environment you need to get a clean, fast kill. In the military environment you just need to wound them. Thats why in the military it is a breach of the Geneva convention to use anything other than a FMJ or similar. In the hunting environment we use controlled expansion pills that do heaps of damage.
Compared to a 22-250 the 223 is smaller and has lesser performance characteristics. The 223 is very close to the excellent, old 222 magnum. On that basis the 223 with a fast twist is an excellent varmint round to 300yds.
But what do you do when your nation's military use a 223 as a favoured side arm. Many of those guys are going to ask for thier old side kick to go hunting with and the arms manufacturers obliged. They released 223s with high twist barrels to send heavier pills out to distances where they have much less ME than a hunting round should have.
What we will get now is teh age old arguement about how this guy or that has killed all soughts of huge animals with a 223. They're right. You can, but you can do it better, safer and more consistantly with a round that puts more energy on the target. A high twist 223 was designed by the military as a great military round that wounds things. It was not designed as a great hunting round that kills things quick, clean and consistantly.
I'd rather ask why a 1:9 twist on a 223. The 22-250 is a great varmint round. It was designed to shoot up to about 55gr pills. These are very well suited to varmints. A 1:14 is just right for most conventional 55gr pills. So the 1:14 twist suites the pill weight which suites the intended game.
So back to my question - why a 1:9 on a 223? Lets just get some background in here first. In the hunting environment you need to get a clean, fast kill. In the military environment you just need to wound them. Thats why in the military it is a breach of the Geneva convention to use anything other than a FMJ or similar. In the hunting environment we use controlled expansion pills that do heaps of damage.
Compared to a 22-250 the 223 is smaller and has lesser performance characteristics. The 223 is very close to the excellent, old 222 magnum. On that basis the 223 with a fast twist is an excellent varmint round to 300yds.
But what do you do when your nation's military use a 223 as a favoured side arm. Many of those guys are going to ask for thier old side kick to go hunting with and the arms manufacturers obliged. They released 223s with high twist barrels to send heavier pills out to distances where they have much less ME than a hunting round should have.
What we will get now is teh age old arguement about how this guy or that has killed all soughts of huge animals with a 223. They're right. You can, but you can do it better, safer and more consistantly with a round that puts more energy on the target. A high twist 223 was designed by the military as a great military round that wounds things. It was not designed as a great hunting round that kills things quick, clean and consistantly.
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Ok first and I hope I get this right. I just bought the guns I have and never even thought about twist rate on anything I have owned. Now that I'm in to reloading I got three guns I reload for in .224 The 223(2) and 22-250 I have bought the 55 gr vmaxes and some 50 gr Sierra's HP I think to load for both you know It would be easier to have one bullet that shoots good in both guns. My first question is why would or should I shoot anything under 50 gr. at a coyote in a 22-250 or 223?
Now to get back to may post I have these three guns to reload for and one shoots lighter bullets and the others shoot heavier bullets. You would think the 223 would shoot the lighter bullets and its just the opposite. Why was the 22-250 designed to shoot such a light bullet like a 40gr. And If I understand this which is a big if why would I want to buy a bunch of 40 gr to shoot coyotes with in my 22-250. Rick
Now to get back to may post I have these three guns to reload for and one shoots lighter bullets and the others shoot heavier bullets. You would think the 223 would shoot the lighter bullets and its just the opposite. Why was the 22-250 designed to shoot such a light bullet like a 40gr. And If I understand this which is a big if why would I want to buy a bunch of 40 gr to shoot coyotes with in my 22-250. Rick
Happy_Hunter
New member
The 1:14 twist will stabilise up to a bit over 3/4"long projectiles. So it will stabilise most 55gr pills that are out there. There are always individual rifles exceptions where this rifle or that one woan't stablise more than about 52grs, but...
On this basis the 22-250 is not limited to 40gr pills. It will shoot them and they go like a cut snake, but they have a much lower BC and by their own weight deliver less energy to the target.
Some people choose to load light pills in teh 22=250 and that's their choice. They are better suited to the light end of teh varmint scale. Coyotes (Dingos) die very quickly when hit with a 55gr pill out of a 22-250. Some people who've done the research kill them very quickly using light pills, but they've had to find the right pill for their round. I don't and that's OK too.
So, in most cases a 1:14 22-250 can handle 55gr pills and is effective beyond 300yds. The power of a 223 is very well suited to the 52gr pill and is effective inside 300yds. Some people choose to shoot high twist 223s at quite long ranges with hevier high BC pills. At those longer ranges the 223 has limited energy left.
Hope that helps
On this basis the 22-250 is not limited to 40gr pills. It will shoot them and they go like a cut snake, but they have a much lower BC and by their own weight deliver less energy to the target.
Some people choose to load light pills in teh 22=250 and that's their choice. They are better suited to the light end of teh varmint scale. Coyotes (Dingos) die very quickly when hit with a 55gr pill out of a 22-250. Some people who've done the research kill them very quickly using light pills, but they've had to find the right pill for their round. I don't and that's OK too.
So, in most cases a 1:14 22-250 can handle 55gr pills and is effective beyond 300yds. The power of a 223 is very well suited to the 52gr pill and is effective inside 300yds. Some people choose to shoot high twist 223s at quite long ranges with hevier high BC pills. At those longer ranges the 223 has limited energy left.
Hope that helps
Happy_Hunter
New member
I would add one thing that will require a bit of thought on your part. You need to choose a projectile that is suited to teh round you are shooting and teh game you intend hunting. The 22-250 will cleanly dispatch game up to small pigs and goats. It is devastating on smaller game such as rabbits. Larger game needs a tougher pill like a Sierra Game King. Smaller game is well served by a lighter pill like a 40gr VMax.
The 223 has a little less power and I think needs a little lighter bullet. For small game a 40gr pill is great. For the heavier game (but not as heavy as what a 22-250 can handle)a 53gr pill is really good.
I woulkd not use the same pill in both rounds. Thet are different and are best suited to slightly different pills.
Half the fun is getting there
The 223 has a little less power and I think needs a little lighter bullet. For small game a 40gr pill is great. For the heavier game (but not as heavy as what a 22-250 can handle)a 53gr pill is really good.
I woulkd not use the same pill in both rounds. Thet are different and are best suited to slightly different pills.
Half the fun is getting there
Originally Posted By: Happy_Hunter
A high twist 223 was designed by the military as a great military round that wounds things. It was not designed as a great hunting round that kills things quick, clean and consistantly.
Tell that to all the animals that have fallen to one! And I can name some big ones. It may not have been designed as one but sure does work!
A high twist 223 was designed by the military as a great military round that wounds things. It was not designed as a great hunting round that kills things quick, clean and consistantly.
Tell that to all the animals that have fallen to one! And I can name some big ones. It may not have been designed as one but sure does work!
Happy_Hunter
New member
Originally Posted By: dmpowderOriginally Posted By: Happy_Hunter
A high twist 223 was designed by the military as a great military round that wounds things. It was not designed as a great hunting round that kills things quick, clean and consistantly.
Tell that to all the animals that have fallen to one! And I can name some big ones. It may not have been designed as one but sure does work!
..and I know a guy who has downed deer with a 204. I don't agree with that either.
A high twist 223 was designed by the military as a great military round that wounds things. It was not designed as a great hunting round that kills things quick, clean and consistantly.
Tell that to all the animals that have fallen to one! And I can name some big ones. It may not have been designed as one but sure does work!
..and I know a guy who has downed deer with a 204. I don't agree with that either.
dogmessiah
New member
Originally Posted By: Happy_Hunter Thats why in the military it is a breach of the Geneva convention to use anything other than a FMJ or similar. In the hunting environment we use controlled expansion pills that do heaps of damage.
Just to be historically correct, it was actually the Hague Convention of 1899 that banned expanding, and explosive ammo, not the Geneva convention.
Just to be historically correct, it was actually the Hague Convention of 1899 that banned expanding, and explosive ammo, not the Geneva convention.
NM Leon
New member
Quote:Now my question is what are some good bullet choices that are light that also have really good expansion with quick kill. I have a couple of AR 15 with 1:8 and 1:9 that will shoot heavier bullets up to 60 gr. but really don't understand why the 22-250 has the 1:14 twist rate.
The 22-250 is already an "overbore" cartridge (for simplicity's sake read "barrel burner"). Putting a faster twist barrel on it will allow it to stabilize longer (heavier) bullets, but will also dramatically shorten barrel life. The "standard" 1:14 twist has been settled on as a pretty good compromise between performance and barrel life, and it just so happens that the planets and stars lined up correctly as far as accuracy with the 50-55 gr bullets that 1:14 stabilizes in a 22-250 too.
The .223 is NOT a barrel burner by any stretch of the imagination. Even with 1:7 twist barrels you could reasonably expect a many thousand round barrel life. Those 1:7 twist barrels make the .223 a reasonably effective target round at even 1000yds shooting VLDs, or with a slightly slower twist very effective at pushing the 65 to 70gr bullets.
The combat type military "trigger" guys I've worked with hate the M193 55gr round that was "standard issue" for M16 type weapons because of it's lack of effectiveness against enemy targets, and "dislike" the current issue M855 62 gr for much the same reason though they "sometimes" perform well, and far and away preferring the Mk262 77gr "match" ammo (when they can get it) even though it's not really stabilized in the M16 variants (virtually all combat where personal rifles are used is very short range and stabilization doesn't really matter) because anybody they shoot "stays shot".
The 22-250 is already an "overbore" cartridge (for simplicity's sake read "barrel burner"). Putting a faster twist barrel on it will allow it to stabilize longer (heavier) bullets, but will also dramatically shorten barrel life. The "standard" 1:14 twist has been settled on as a pretty good compromise between performance and barrel life, and it just so happens that the planets and stars lined up correctly as far as accuracy with the 50-55 gr bullets that 1:14 stabilizes in a 22-250 too.
The .223 is NOT a barrel burner by any stretch of the imagination. Even with 1:7 twist barrels you could reasonably expect a many thousand round barrel life. Those 1:7 twist barrels make the .223 a reasonably effective target round at even 1000yds shooting VLDs, or with a slightly slower twist very effective at pushing the 65 to 70gr bullets.
The combat type military "trigger" guys I've worked with hate the M193 55gr round that was "standard issue" for M16 type weapons because of it's lack of effectiveness against enemy targets, and "dislike" the current issue M855 62 gr for much the same reason though they "sometimes" perform well, and far and away preferring the Mk262 77gr "match" ammo (when they can get it) even though it's not really stabilized in the M16 variants (virtually all combat where personal rifles are used is very short range and stabilization doesn't really matter) because anybody they shoot "stays shot".