Shotgun hulls; Win AA or WinAA HS?

R

RRA223

New member
I havent done any shotshell reloading in a few years now, but my son is wanting to start shooting some clay pigeons. Im noticing that Win has went to these AA HS hulls that seem to be different from the originals and are not 1 piece compression formed hulls. Are these new ones better as far as getting several loads out of a hull, or are the old AA's still the best.

Thanks
 
The "Old Style" AA hulls are getting harder and harder to find ... thus the transition by most reloaders to the new AAHS. There have been no problems with the HS hulls, except for RUMORS of the basewad detaching in the 12ga version. I repeat ... RUMORS. I haven't personally had ANY problems with them in the 20, 28, and 410 versions that I'm loading.

BE AWARE: Some publications show that the data between these hulls is interchangeable. Not everyone, however, agrees with this.

To answer your question ... use the new AAHS hulls and load away! Any "new" data that you find on the powder manufacturers websites will probably show that the data is interchangeable. You can use this data safely in the AAHS hulls. And any new ammunition that you purchase will obviously be the new HS version hull. Longetivity seems to be comparable with the older AA hull. We are getting over 10+ reloads in the AAHS easily.

If you have older wads onhand that you used with the old version hulls, they may or may not be usable in the HS hulls. As always ... follow the published data to the letter and you'll get nice, safe, usable reloads.
 
Thanks Hidalgo, I was hoping you would chime in, that is what I was needing to know. We are loading for his .410 now but Im sure Ill have to join in and start loading my .20 gauge too. Do you know of a good place to find these hulls?

Thanks again.
 
Last edited:
Check out Trapshooters.com, they are selling once fired hulls on there all the time.

If you are just starting out reloading again you may want to get Remington STS or Nitro target hulls.

Quite a few people that reload shotgun shells like the Remington hulls much better than the new Win HS AA hulls.

The new AA hulls do not have as much room in them as the old AA hulls did.

I use Clays powder and it is pretty bulky compared to some of the other powders. My Mec Grabber will not load the new Win AA hulls with Clays powder worth a darn without using different wads.

With the new Win AA HS hulls I now use a 1 oz Win AA wad to load 7/8 oz loads and the 1-1/8 oz Win AA wad to load 1 oz loads. By doing this it gives more room in the hull and all of the shot is inside the shot cup.

Before I switched the wads I could not adjust the hole out of the center of the crimps without the side of the Win AA HS hull buckling a little while using Clays powder. I use a #32 or #33 powder bushing with the Clays powder.

If you use 700X powder or a powder where you can use a #26 or #27 bushing this space issue may not be a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: RRA223Thanks Hidalgo, I was hoping you would chime in, that is what I was needing to know. We are loading for his .410 now but Im sure Ill have to join in and start loading my .20 gauge too. Do you know of a good place to find these hulls?

Thanks again.

WOW ... 410 hulls are like buying GOLD ... trust me ... I KNOW.
cry.gif


My suggestion would be to go to Sportsmans Whse, Academy, Wal Mart, etc and purchase a flat of AA Target loads (10 boxes) or whatever you can afford to buy initially and then use those recovered hulls as my starting point. You CAN buy .410 hulls if you desire, but they're going to be almost 1/2 as much as buying AA Target loads off the shelf. Of course ... the cost goes down as you continuously load them, but that initial layout hurts the 'ole pocketbook. The going price for .410 hulls right now is usually around 20cents each. That's $5.25 per box. You can see why it would be a good idea just to buy the factory rounds for your initial supply.

www.gunbroker.com probably has the most available right now. Both 410 and 20 are in pretty decent supply. The cost on 20's isn't too bad.

As for using the Rem STS hulls instead, I would have to strongly disagree with that recommendation, for anything except 12ga loading. Remington .410 and 28 gauge hulls are CRAP from the word go. Their 20ga aren't any better than WW, in my opinion. And the statement that the HS hulls are smaller internally is correct ... that's why I cautioned you about using data for the "old style" hulls in them.

There are a few "quirks" about the HS hulls that some have issues with. But if you use the proper components and know how to adjust your reloader, you can make loads that look like factory and perform as well or better.

Let me know if you need anything else....I'm glad to help if I can.
 
Hidalgo said, As for using the Rem STS hulls instead, I would have to strongly disagree with that recommendation, for anything except 12ga loading.

Hidalgo, I agree with you about the hulls for the smaller gauges.

The original post didn't say what gauge and I was thinking 12 gauge. Sorry about that!
 
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbob
Hidalgo, I agree with you about the hulls for the smaller gauges.

The original post didn't say what gauge and I was thinking 12 gauge. Sorry about that!

BOB ..... I DON'T GIVE A HOOT IF YOU AGREE WITH ME OR NOT !!!
smile.gif



................ because I'd love you anyway, man.
tt2.gif


MERRY CHRISTMAS to YOU & YOURS !!!
thumbup.gif


.
 
Thanks a bunch guys, looks like Academy it is, Ive already bought the latest Lyman shotshell manual so data for the HS hulls wont be a problem. Also if you guys have a favorite target load for these hulls in 2 1/2" Id be very interested in hearing it. The only powder I have onhand at this time is H110, but I dont mind picking up some more...

Thanks
 
I would look at Alliant Powder's website, in their reloading data, and also look at Hodgdon's data. It will widen your choices.

A word of caution ....... the little .410 usually runs at high pressures, and with the confined space in that hull, a very small mistake on a powder charge can be disastrous. Not trying to scare you, but simply making the point that you need to check your drops more often than you perhaps would with another gauge.

Try to find a load that agrees with your tastes, and has a lower pressure. Wad changes are usually the biggest factor on this hull. Same powder, same primer, different wad = wide pressure variations. I know you are a seasoned reloader, but I have to say it one more time .....

ESPECIALLY with the .410, don't substitute components unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE of what you are doing and have data to back it up.

Be Safe .... and have FUN with your child! Don't let him get discouraged with the .410 ... it is referred to by the top skeet shooters as "The Expert's Gun" ... and for good reason.
wink.gif


EDIT: Oops ... forgot the load .... We usually favor H110 with a Win. 209 primer, and WAA410HS wad. At 16.3 grains of powder, it is only 9,300 PSI and runs about 1250fps or so. We seem to get better breaks at 1250 or better. I don't know your son's age or stature, but if you need to drop the load for whatever reason, you can back it down to 1200 and be fine. I think this load is listed on Hodgdon's website, along with several variations on the powder charge.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again sir, and no I was not aware that slight component changes made such a difference in the .410, as compared to the others, but it makes sense. I really appreciate all the help and my boy thanks you too.
 
Yep the old AA's were the gold standard for reloading, They changed about 10 years ago went to a cheap plastic and they were to me unloadable there for a time! Then they saw the light and went back to the original style hull! AAHS are good hulls as well! The old AA's could be loaded until they litterally fell apart!
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanI'd rather eat a rat than load a HS hull, go Rem STS instead!

The OP was asking about .410 & 20 gauge ... if you'd rather load STS than AAHS for those gauges, then that's your loss. I'm not saying that STS hulls aren't usable in the sub-gauges, but 99% of the people who are running large amounts of shells through the machines (10,000+) prefer the AAHS. That fact stands for itself.

Folks at our club will step on a STS 410 or 28 hull instead of bending over to pick it up...and they aren't too big on the 20's either.
wink.gif
 
Okay, got another question. Ive never used any of this before but H110 is a super fine grained powder and its making a fair mess at the loader...not awful bad but each time you move the charge bar a little bit runs out from underneath the bar. Any suggestions? Maybe switch to a larger flake powder? I may go back and take the little brass washer out from under the rubber ring on the powder side and see if that helps.

OH and by the way Hidalgo, my boy is loving the clay pigeons, he even manages to hit about half of them. I tried it with his 410 and made lots of hits, it wasnt as hard as I thought it would be. We are using store bought #9's and loading back with 7 1/2's, may end up going back to 9's if the others dont do as well.

Thanks for all the help guys.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: RRA223Problem solved.... took the little brass ring out and all is well!

YEP ... that would do it.
wink.gif


You mentioned shot size. I have gone to 8.5s on almost everything. Less pellets than a load of 9s, but a little more energy. In the .410, you're handicapping yourself with those 7.5s because of the low pellet count. You're loading 175 pellets in 7.5 shot, but would have 295 if you loaded 9s. That little .410 needs all the patterning help it can get.
 
Originally Posted By: Hidalgo
You mentioned shot size. I have gone to 8.5s on almost everything. Less pellets than a load of 9s, but a little more energy. In the .410, you're handicapping yourself with those 7.5s because of the low pellet count. You're loading 175 pellets in 7.5 shot, but would have 295 if you loaded 9s. That little .410 needs all the patterning help it can get.

+1 to what Hidalgo said
 
Originally Posted By: Hidalgo
As for using the Rem STS hulls instead, I would have to strongly disagree with that recommendation, for anything except 12ga loading. Remington .410 and 28 gauge hulls are CRAP from the word go. Their 20ga aren't any better than WW, in my opinion. And the statement that the HS hulls are smaller internally is correct ... that's why I cautioned you about using data for the "old style" hulls in them.

There are a few "quirks" about the HS hulls that some have issues with. But if you use the proper components and know how to adjust your reloader, you can make loads that look like factory and perform as well or better.

Let me know if you need anything else....I'm glad to help if I can.

I have to respectfully disagree with Hidalgo on the 28 and 20
ga. STS hulls. I have boxes full of old AAs, AA HS, and STS
hulls for both of these gauges. I have gotten more loads
out of the STS hulls than the old AAs, easily in 20 ga. and
about the same as AAs in 28 ga. The new AA HS hulls haven't
been loaded but a time or two as I am still loading many STS
hulls, and some of the older AAs. The AA HS seem to load
well, but I did get the new wads for those hulls, and I do
have a mild anxiety about the base wad instead of a
compression formed hull. I have cut a number apart on my
band saw, for different numbers of loads, and so far I haven't
found any evidence that the wad is coming loose. I do like
the longer walls of the base wad which will make it much more
difficult to slide away from the base.

I actually have a few boxes of unfired AAs, that I am saving...
Not sure why, but I have never been happy with Winchesters
decision to go to the AA HS hull. The hull seems decent, but
the idea of a two piece hull just sticks in my craw. I
have always had good luck with STS hulls, so I purchase and
re-load them most often. In my Beretta 20 ga. auto where
I worry about base wad obstruction, I just don't shoot AA HS
hulls re-loaded. For the O/Us I check after the shots, so
I don't worry there, and use the AA HS re-loads in those guns.

Squeeze

Squeeze
 
Back
Top