My dad tanned the coyote i got over Christmas break. He did all the listed steps on the Lutan-F kit from van dykes accept putting it in the dryer. It is now somewhat stiff, and it has a slight greasy feel. What can I do to make it more pliable, and less greasy, with out getting kicked out of the house for putting a coyote hide in the dryer?
breaking up a hide
- Thread starter Brennan
- Start date
River Runner
New member
First let me ask ya a couple of questions, Brennan.
What's greasy on the hide? The flesh side or the fur?
And......what type of tanning oil did your father finish the hide with? Was it used straight from the container or broke down?
What's greasy on the hide? The flesh side or the fur?
And......what type of tanning oil did your father finish the hide with? Was it used straight from the container or broke down?
coyote mike
New member
Brennan;
Lutan-F is a great tanning formula. What kind of oil did your dad use on the hide. Also how long did your dad leave the hide dry before oiling it. All hides should hang until they are about 90% dry. Or you can put them in a washing machine and put them on the spin cycle.
Your oil should also be heated before it's put on the hide. Not anymore than 160 degrees though. Oil the hide and let it sit for 24 hrs. any excess oil should be swabbed off. I don't know what your talking about putting the hide in a dryer though.
What you need to do is tumble the hide in hardwood sawdust, until the hide is soft, and suppel. If you don't have a tumbler, you can use a plastic garbage bag with sawdust in it. The sawdust removes the excess oil on the hair and skin, and helps breaks the hide. Also you need good sawdust without any pitch in it. A good oil to get is Bruce Rittels Pro Plus Oil.
Hope this helps you out some
Lutan-F is a great tanning formula. What kind of oil did your dad use on the hide. Also how long did your dad leave the hide dry before oiling it. All hides should hang until they are about 90% dry. Or you can put them in a washing machine and put them on the spin cycle.
Your oil should also be heated before it's put on the hide. Not anymore than 160 degrees though. Oil the hide and let it sit for 24 hrs. any excess oil should be swabbed off. I don't know what your talking about putting the hide in a dryer though.
What you need to do is tumble the hide in hardwood sawdust, until the hide is soft, and suppel. If you don't have a tumbler, you can use a plastic garbage bag with sawdust in it. The sawdust removes the excess oil on the hair and skin, and helps breaks the hide. Also you need good sawdust without any pitch in it. A good oil to get is Bruce Rittels Pro Plus Oil.
Hope this helps you out some
After two months of this summer going by I finaly have a little time to finish off this hide. The oil used was pro-plus it was mixed with water before being applied. The places on the fur side are from where my father spilled the oil. The hide is starting to relax a little bit, but the spots where it is still greasy/oily is where I think I didn't get all the membrane/fat when fleshing. I tried my best to flesh it with my skinning knife before salting, I think I got this backwards.
Would putting it in the garabage bag with sawdust still help?
Any advice for getting the membrane off now, or on future hides would be appreciated.
Would putting it in the garabage bag with sawdust still help?
Any advice for getting the membrane off now, or on future hides would be appreciated.
River Runner
New member
You can go back and scrape off or peel the left over membrane from the hide Brennan, but whether or not the tanning chemicals of the Lutan F you used was able to penetrate around that and get through the skin, I can't tell ya.
Removing the untannable protiens such as the membrane, fat and/or whatever else you have left on there WILL help to soften the hide yes. But for future reference as I'm sure you know, the hides need to be fleshed clean...literally...before any tanning begins.
Tumbling the hide will HELP
Tumbling in sawdust will HELP
Stretching and working the hide will HELP
...but none of these will be a cure if any of the debris left on the hide prevented the tanning chemicals from doing there job, ya know what I'm sayin?
Future advice for removing the membrane you say?
There's lotsa ways... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-Salt your hides till they dry first.
-Pickle them in a tanning acid with a P.H. level of 2.0 or lower for 72 hour minimum.
-Wash the greasy hides in a good tanning degreaser so it lets you at the membrane.
-Put a little acid bate in your pickling solutions.
-Be sure your using a good fleshing knife and beam your comfortable with.
-Get yourself a fleshing wheel.
Removing the untannable protiens such as the membrane, fat and/or whatever else you have left on there WILL help to soften the hide yes. But for future reference as I'm sure you know, the hides need to be fleshed clean...literally...before any tanning begins.
Tumbling the hide will HELP
Tumbling in sawdust will HELP
Stretching and working the hide will HELP
...but none of these will be a cure if any of the debris left on the hide prevented the tanning chemicals from doing there job, ya know what I'm sayin?
Future advice for removing the membrane you say?
There's lotsa ways... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-Salt your hides till they dry first.
-Pickle them in a tanning acid with a P.H. level of 2.0 or lower for 72 hour minimum.
-Wash the greasy hides in a good tanning degreaser so it lets you at the membrane.
-Put a little acid bate in your pickling solutions.
-Be sure your using a good fleshing knife and beam your comfortable with.
-Get yourself a fleshing wheel.
I have heard, correct me if I am wrong, that one can use leather conditioner like Lexol or something similar can be used to "tan" hides and get them very supple without actually purchasing the tanning gear.
Now for the breaking issue... How does one configure a fleshing machine? I haven't seen one yet that gave a good picture. I have visited WASCO.com and VanDykesSupply.com and haven't been able to find one. I am currently working on some rabbit, they are pretty thick as these rabbits were six month old bucks. For rabbit they are thick. I fleshed three two younger rabbits and a coon skin fairly easily, these older ones are giving me fits. I have been working the hides consistently for several days but it doesn't seem to be getting better. Is it possible that I could oil them with the leather conditioner to soften them and they would break easier? Also, would an old dryer and a rock work? These hides have been pickled, salted, rehydrated, and dried again. I have saved RR's instructions or method in which he does this process. I have read about you using EZ100 however, when I went to VanDykes they only sell the "salt" stuff not the kit. I have these three that are not finished, three that need conditioner, an oppossum skin in the salt now, four salted frozen skins and a fox pelt waiting to be done. I want to get this dang thing mastered BEFORE attempting a fox as they are much more desirable AND I almost have an endless supply of rabbit hides available since I raise them for eating. The pickle I used was with battery acid, rock salt, and hot water. I followed the instructions and it just gave me fits. I understand that Alum, in the long term, causes the skins to fall apart later and now realize that the sulfuric acid will leach out of the skins. So much for thinking there was an easier way to do this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Now for the breaking issue... How does one configure a fleshing machine? I haven't seen one yet that gave a good picture. I have visited WASCO.com and VanDykesSupply.com and haven't been able to find one. I am currently working on some rabbit, they are pretty thick as these rabbits were six month old bucks. For rabbit they are thick. I fleshed three two younger rabbits and a coon skin fairly easily, these older ones are giving me fits. I have been working the hides consistently for several days but it doesn't seem to be getting better. Is it possible that I could oil them with the leather conditioner to soften them and they would break easier? Also, would an old dryer and a rock work? These hides have been pickled, salted, rehydrated, and dried again. I have saved RR's instructions or method in which he does this process. I have read about you using EZ100 however, when I went to VanDykes they only sell the "salt" stuff not the kit. I have these three that are not finished, three that need conditioner, an oppossum skin in the salt now, four salted frozen skins and a fox pelt waiting to be done. I want to get this dang thing mastered BEFORE attempting a fox as they are much more desirable AND I almost have an endless supply of rabbit hides available since I raise them for eating. The pickle I used was with battery acid, rock salt, and hot water. I followed the instructions and it just gave me fits. I understand that Alum, in the long term, causes the skins to fall apart later and now realize that the sulfuric acid will leach out of the skins. So much for thinking there was an easier way to do this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
DixieDuke, by trying to find shortcuts, your actually making things harder than they need to be. Forget about the battery acid. FAR too dangerous and there are much better acids out there. It sounds like your wanting to make your own fleshing machine, forget that too. A homemade flesher will never be able to compare with a commercial one, and you really don't need one for thin skinned animals. A fleshing machine shaves the hide thin, it doesn't break the hide, though the thinner hide breaks easier. Also, someone told you wrong that you can use leather conditioner in place of tanning. Hides must be turned into leather, otherwise they're still raw skins. Go to Bruce Rittels website here, http://rittelsupplies.net/current_pricelist.html and order the EZ-2000 kit. It will come with directions that will walk you right through it. It's also a good idea to get a book on tanning to help you understand the process.
River Runner
New member
Some good points Magis, thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Dixie, One of the keys to soft skins is to thoroughly flesh them. The chemicals have to be able to get to the skin to do their job and any membrane or untannable protiens left on the skin prevent that, causes a stiff hide or hides with hard spots.
Check out some previous posts by using our search feature.
Here's a few that may help you out;
Fur Tip #5 (fleshing)
How to build a tumbler
By the way...here's a photo of the fleshing machine I use in my shop. You mentioned you couldn't find a picture.
Dixie, One of the keys to soft skins is to thoroughly flesh them. The chemicals have to be able to get to the skin to do their job and any membrane or untannable protiens left on the skin prevent that, causes a stiff hide or hides with hard spots.
Check out some previous posts by using our search feature.
Here's a few that may help you out;
Fur Tip #5 (fleshing)
How to build a tumbler
By the way...here's a photo of the fleshing machine I use in my shop. You mentioned you couldn't find a picture.
Ok... so then I guess what I was asking about was the manual fleshing contraption that I have heard some folks talk about with the two handled knife and such. Do you think an exceptionally sharp ulu would work if the hide was fastened firmly to something?
There is no way I can afford a machine like the one pictured. I did find a picture of an air powered flesher that looked extremely similar to a Dremmel tool.
There is no way I can afford a machine like the one pictured. I did find a picture of an air powered flesher that looked extremely similar to a Dremmel tool.
I used to put up beaver for some of the local trappers so they could ship them to auction. I used a 5 ft. section of 8 in. popple log split in half and rounded and taperred to a dull point on one end. The butt end was anchorred solid to the floor round side up and the pointed end was propped up to just below my sternum while standing. The nose of the fur to be fleshed was hooked over the point and held in place by pressing against the piont with my stomach and a a draw knife was used to flesh the hide. work the draw knife away from you with bevel side of the blade down so edge doesn't dig in. As you finnish a few inches of fleshing move the hide up on the point and start fleshing. for beaver a very sharp knife is reguired, for fox, coon, rats and mink a dull knife will work. Try not to cut into the hair folicles as the hair will slip in the tanning process.
For breaking hides durring the tanning proccess I took an old single bit ax and welded it blade up to a pipe stuck in the ground and worked the hide over the dulled edge of the ax.
Old ax heads and draw knives can be found at farm auction really cheap as they aren't in big demand as working tools anymore.
AWS
For breaking hides durring the tanning proccess I took an old single bit ax and welded it blade up to a pipe stuck in the ground and worked the hide over the dulled edge of the ax.
Old ax heads and draw knives can be found at farm auction really cheap as they aren't in big demand as working tools anymore.
AWS
River Runner
New member
I'm not sure what an ulu knife is Dixie but here's a shot of fleshing knife.
The air powered mini flesher your referring to is basically the same as the larger table mounted unit I pictured in my last post with the exception that they are much smaller and it takes triple the time to do half the job. Not realy worth the investment, in my opinion.
The air powered mini flesher your referring to is basically the same as the larger table mounted unit I pictured in my last post with the exception that they are much smaller and it takes triple the time to do half the job. Not realy worth the investment, in my opinion.
Thanks much on all the information and the links to your other descriptions and pictures of your fleshing tube, wheel, and knife, and the tumbler. That helps immensely. If you were not "tubing" the animals, would you still use a round PVC for this? I am thinking not, but... And the tumbler is basically a dryer with no heat or forced airflow right?
Now that it is September and moving into winter, (fall doesn't last long around here is 37 degrees right now) it is recommended that the "tanning" area be at a certain temperature for the processes to work?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Now that it is September and moving into winter, (fall doesn't last long around here is 37 degrees right now) it is recommended that the "tanning" area be at a certain temperature for the processes to work?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
River Runner
New member
You can use a round pvc fleshing beam for your hides regardless of how they are skinned Dixie. Flat or tubed. If they are skinned flat simply lay it over the beam. If tubed, slide it over the beam.
Some tumblers are used for drying furs, yes..the one you seen in my photos is filled with a resin coated hardwood saw dust. I use it to clean not dry the furs as a final step. It's completely sealed no air flow.
Tanning temperatures; Some of the chemicals used for different processes require hot water, some cool water, etc. As far as the actual room temp your operating in...it's recommended you stay at room temp 65 to 75 degrees. No lower the 65 or some of the chemicals tend to coagulate in their solutions.
Some tumblers are used for drying furs, yes..the one you seen in my photos is filled with a resin coated hardwood saw dust. I use it to clean not dry the furs as a final step. It's completely sealed no air flow.
Tanning temperatures; Some of the chemicals used for different processes require hot water, some cool water, etc. As far as the actual room temp your operating in...it's recommended you stay at room temp 65 to 75 degrees. No lower the 65 or some of the chemicals tend to coagulate in their solutions.