new to tanning (please help me)

Silver Fox, I think softness is achieved by many things and not any one in particular.

If the hide is not fleshed properly the tan nor the oil can penetrate the skin resulting in a stiff hide.

A good tanning oil helps a lot also. It replaces proteins that are removed from the skin during pickling.

Throw the breaking process in there, and the comination makes the hides soft and supple.

Any thin skin will be softer then a thick one, so yes thinning them on the wheel will make them softer.
Think of the chamois you use to wash your car with. You know how thin that is. And it's so soft you could blow your nose on it. Then take a look at that new belt your brother in law got you for Christmas. It's a lot thicker and much stiffer. Granted the belt didn't go through the breaking process as long as a chamois would and it's made with top grain, but you see what I'm saying.

Tube skinned hides I hang by the nose, flat hides I open up and hang.
 
That's kind of hard to explain, Silver. If your using the #100 you never want to leave them in for a full 24 hours. They just go dead sorta speak and lose all their elasticity.

Coyotes, Fox, Bobcat, and other small varmint types I leave in for 14 to 16 hours.
Deer, Bear, and bigger game I leave in for 16 to 18. Never more them 20.
It's really not that critical as long as they aren't in too long. You'll have the same results pulling them out at 16 as you would 18.
Just don't go over 20 hours.
 
STTH, welcome to the board my friend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do stretch hides that I tan. It's part of the breaking process. I think your referring to stretcher type stretching an the answer is no I don't.
Shrinkage? There isn't a tan in the world that eliminates any shrinkage in it's entirety. But I can say that I do get very very little shrinkage. That's all in the tan though. Different tans have different effects when it come to shrinkage.

Pickling does not waterproof a hide, no. And neither does a lot of tans. Some prevent water from leaching the chimicals out of it better then others but that's the extent of it. You'd never throw your good leather coat into the washing machine, you know what I'm saying?

The hides your pickling, your right they aren't tanned. They will last quite a while because they are acidified, like temporarily preserved. But they are far from leather and won't last near as long. I can't imagine the breaking process involved with finishing your hides, wow.

My tumbler I made. It consists of a rectangular frame with four legs. Two half inch drive axles running the length of it supported on top of the frame by a pillow bearing every 10 inches, and a six inch wheel every foot between the bearings to support the tumbling cell.
Underneath is the motor pullied to one drive axle, and on the other end of the frame the two drive axles are pullied together so both drive.
 
RR, by tanning the hides is the breaking any easier? I did a deer hide a few years back and breaking it about did me in. Is the #100 you talk about mixed in with the acid or plain water?
 
Oh yes, it has to be tons easier, STTH. Your converting the skin to leather, one. Two your giving back all the globular proteins robbed from the hide during the pickling process.

Most tanning agents today are mixed with water, yes. But they produce an acid when they are at the proper PH level.
 
Thanks for your help, does the #100 you get from vandykes come with fairly plain instructions or are you on your own? What type of oil do you use and is tumbling the only thing you do to break the hide? Also I have always used sulfuric acid for the pickle, you recommend the oxalic? Is the EZ Tan the #100 you are talking about?
 
If you buy it from Van Dykes, you'll get full directions. I buy mine bulk right from Rittel.

The oil I use is a professional tanning oil, and you can buy the same product from Van Dykes also. They call it Protal.

I hand stretch the hides in stages as I tumble them. As I mentioned earlier in the topic, I will tumble them for an hour or so several times a day and hand stretch them in between tumblings ..As they dry. The key here is to do so during the drying process, not before not after. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
oooooooops I missed part of your post STTH.

If I was to reccomend a pickling acid I'd reccomend the Saftee acid. I DO use the Oxalic acid but when this batch is gone I'm switching to the Saftee acid. Oxalic acid is not real enviromently safe and is pretty high priced compared to others that do the same job.

Yes, the EZ100 you see in Van Dykes is the same tanning I use, or call #100.
 
River, thanks for all the help. Just got done doing another deer hide. With your help and tips this thing turned out so soft nice it made all the pain in the first on worth it (almost). The only thing I did different was to thin it more on the wheel and put it in the dryer he picked up after oiling. I did very little hand breaking. BTW, how would you thin the hide if you didn't have a wheel? If I decide to set up at my house I won't have money for a wheel for awhile.
 
You'll need a razor edge on your fleshing knife, and you'll be able to do it with that. But it is a chore.
I still whack a few spots with mine while I have the hide on the beam, but it's a lot easier with the wheel.
Bruce Rittel used to tell me that once the hide was finished as your deer is, that you can go back and sand the hide thinner in the thick spots.
It does work, but wow, it's a whole lot easier to do the thinning while the hide is wet and on the wheel.
 
Tell me about it. I started to sand the thick one. Ummm...no way. I'll just hang it on the wall. Will it cause the hair to fall out if I roll them up after they are all dry?
 
No. You can't make the hair fall out now that its tanned.
The deer hair is hollow like straw remember, and it's not hard to break. I know it sounds silly, "hey I broke my hair", but you can pull on the hair itself and you'll see what I mean. So if your rolling them up, you might want to roll it loosely.
 
If I get set up at my house I plan on running water up to where I'm at. Should I run both hot and cold or just cold? Should I run it before or after the softener?
 
I'd run both, hot and cold. Two reasons;
First, you want to always dissolve the tanning agent in hot water.
Second, the tanning baths should be between 65 and 75 degrees during tanning.

What I do is, lets say I'm mixing up a 50 gallon tanning solution. I'll fill a tank with 40 gallons of water and add the appropriate amount of salt to that. Mix it up until all the salt is dissolved. Then a take a smaller vat, put my 10 gallons of hot water in it, and add the appropriate amount of tanning agent, and mix that up intil it's all dissolved.
Then I take and add the 10 gallons of dissolved tanning agent to the 40 with the salt. The 10 gallons of hot water brings the temperature of the entire bath up to a respectable temperature.

Before or after the softener. It's half a dozen of one and six of the other, Silver~. I'd take a PH reading of the water before and after the softener and go with which ever had the lowest reading. Either way your going to have to do some buffering to the final baths to get the PH level where you want it. By starting with the lowest PH level you can from straight tap water, you'll do less buffering.
 
RiverRunner, after putting my last hide in the dryer to tumble I really liked how it turned out, but I would like to add wood chips/dust of some kind to give the fur a nice scent and to really get it tumbling in there. If I go with the sawdust as you do something tells me the dryer won't be the best tool for that. What's the easiest way to build a homemade tumbler?
 
No, the dryer won't last long if you do that. The gaskets between the drum and the door, and the one between the drum and the back panel will fill up and give away.

My digital camera sucks. I'll see if I can borrow a friends and get some pictures up of the one I made.
I have to go into Iowa this afternoon for a play my children are in, so give me a few days.
 
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