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#175012 - 01/10/02 04:53 PM Fleshing
mattm Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 284
Loc: Mesa AZ
Tried fleshing a pelt for the first time...not good. Looked like I ran it over a few times with three bladed plow.

I have talked to numerous people about this and have gotten many different suggestions. A taxidermist I talked too says he fleshes on flat hard surface, no beam with a 4" paring knife. My boss, an old trapper says he never fleshed, just skin, sew, stretch/dry and ship.

I read on your site, RR, that you only request the pelts stretched/dried and your price includes fleshing? What about a fur buyer, are most the same. I probably won't sell too many if any, it depends on how much work is involved. But I'd like to have a few tanned.

Sorry so long.

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All you gotta do is not miss!

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#175013 - 01/10/02 06:55 PM Re: Fleshing
Bug Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 43
Loc: Mtn. View, Wyoming, U.S.[beeep...
Hi, i have just started doing this stuff myself to but i have done is while your skin is on a strecher i put salt on it and let it drie out the i put hot water on it and it seems to come off easier. i may be wrong but it worked pretty good for me.
Later
Bug

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#175014 - 01/10/02 10:40 PM Re: Fleshing
Zackster 2000 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Kayenta, Arizona
Matt - Depends on what animal you are selling or getting tanned. River Runner can answer the tanning questions. As for selling, I would suggest fleshing coon and beaver, but don't worry much about fleshing cats, yotes and fox. If you strech and dry them in a cool place, the larger predators will dry just fine. Some furbuyers even discount furs, especially from cats, that have been fleshed too close to the skin. Cats, fox and yotes are dried always with the fur out, so furbuyers can't really tell how well they have been fleshed anyway. Unless they have a a really good flashligh

If a stretched skin slips (spoils) on you, it's normally behind the ears where the air don't get to them as well and there is often more meat left on the skin in this area. But a good cool environment for drying usually takes care of this. Good luck and don't spend too much energy on that fleshing

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#175015 - 01/10/02 11:21 PM Re: Fleshing
River Runner Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 8930
Loc: Bloomington, WI
Mattm...the information on my website only states that the hides must be shipped dried.
Basically what that means is that I cannot accept a hide that was shot, skinned, tossed in a plastic bag, boxed up, and shipped out, all within a 24 hour period, (roughly).
Biggest reason for that is the obvious...the hide is going to cook in transit, and be well done by the time it arrives
Stretching?...if you want hides tanned, there is no reason to stretch them. They all get stretched as part of any tanneries finishing process.
Fleshing...the biggest concern is to remove any large chunks of meat and or fat, left over from the skinning job. Meat left on the hide will take the derma layer of the hide with it as it rots, causing the hair to slip.
As Zackster mentioned, ears are one of the first things to go, because of meat left on the hide after the skinning, and the tails are just as important. The tail bone must be removed, or the tail it's self will never make it through the process of rehydration before the tanner removes the bone himself before tanning.

Here's a couple of topics from the forum that might help you out a bit. If they don't...let us know. If they bring up more questions for you...well, let us know then too. Were glad to help where we can.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000071.html
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000060.html
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000050.html

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~River Runner~

Champion Tannery

www.predatormasters.com



[This message has been edited by River Runner (edited 01-10-2002).]

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#175016 - 01/11/02 06:53 PM Re: Fleshing
Zackster 2000 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Kayenta, Arizona
Hello River Runner - I was wondering how to dry a skin without putting it on a stretcher? If they are case skinned it seems this would be hard to do unless you turned them inside out. Is that how you prefer them when shipped to you for tanning?

Also, do you know if a "garment" tanning process is different than other types of tanning? The reason I ask is that I shipped 5 cats to FOXX furs last season since there was no way I was going to sell them for $60~$80. I had more gas money in them than that. Anyway, FOXX says in their brochure that they are not responsible for hair loss. But they only charge $17 for a "garment" tan so I figured it was worth a try. Only one small cat came back without hair loss. The rest had patches in the head area and along the sides where the wooden stretcher contacts the skin that were bald of fur. Some of the bald patches ran all the way down the sides. Is this normal in the "garment" tanning process? The skins had been stretched and dried prior to shipment and were in great shape (no slipping, etc.)

Thanks for the great info. and any light you can "shed" (no pun intended) in this area.

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#175017 - 01/11/02 08:33 PM Re: Fleshing
River Runner Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 8930
Loc: Bloomington, WI
Zackster, you can dry a hide without putting it on a stretcher by simply hanging it. No big deal. Inside out, outside out, upside down, backwards, stick your big toe in and shake it all about...do the hokey pokey turn yourself around..blah blah blah. Don't matter, stretched or unstretched, the tannery don't care. We aren't fur buyers and we stretch your hides as part of the process.

Garment tanning...I'm not going to say that Foxx messed up, and I can't really say that you messed up either Zackster.
The obvious difference between garment tanning and other tanning is that garment tanning, the customer assumes tht the finished product is waterproof or at least able to withstand some washing periods. And by all rights it should be.
Hair loss from the strecher is rather common if whoever puts them on the stretcher doesnt dry the fur first, that fur clings to the stretcher and basically dries there. Left too much longer and the fur will try to make itself pat of the stretcher.

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~River Runner~

Champion Tannery

www.predatormasters.com

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#175018 - 01/12/02 03:13 AM Re: Fleshing
River Runner Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 8930
Loc: Bloomington, WI
I need to make a correction.
I've seen and heard of the fur side of hides sticking to a WIRE stretcher. Which was the first thing that came to my mind Zackster when I read your post.
I've never heard of them sticking to a wooden stretcher. I'm not sure what would have caused that.
How long were they on the stretcher?...and were they kept dry and out of humid weather?

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~River Runner~

Champion Tannery

www.predatormasters.com

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#175019 - 01/12/02 01:54 PM Re: Fleshing
Zackster 2000 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Kayenta, Arizona
RR - The were totally dry when I removed them from the strechers. Fur was in great shape at that time. I always check them as they are drying and after I remove them from the strechers to see if they are slipping anywhere. They were not.

I was wondering if the garment tanning process is different because maybe they plan to split them down the sides anyway and discard the face, so maybe these areas are not important to them. The places where the hair fell out still has good tanned leather present. Just not hair.

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#175020 - 01/13/02 12:34 AM Re: Fleshing
River Runner Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 8930
Loc: Bloomington, WI
You got me scratching my head on this one Zackster. Unless there was something on those two drying boards, got into the skin and layed dorment until the hides were rehydrated at the tannery. I'm drawing straws here.
Every skin reacts differently to the tanning solutions. I can see one of your three maybe having a problem, but you mentioned two out of your three. It would be pretty uncommon but not impossible for those two cats to have some kind of skin problem. Or maybe they weren't even your hides that you got back.
There is nothing special about a garment tan. It basically produces a waterproof, soft hide. And there is no handling technique that is really different enough to justify that kind of slippage.
You CAN still make decent leather from a hide that suffers massive hair slippage...to a certian point.

You got me stumped, bud.

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~River Runner~

Champion Tannery

www.predatormasters.com

[This message has been edited by River Runner (edited 01-13-2002).]

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#175021 - 01/13/02 07:44 PM Re: Fleshing
Zackster 2000 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Kayenta, Arizona
I've been stumped as well. They say in the brochure that they are not responsible for hair loss, so I knew going in that it may not be perfect. But it was 4 out of 5, not 2 out of 3. So I'm still thinking on what to do with the furs this season.

Do you think that fleshing too close to the skin would cause this? That's the only thing I could possibly think of, but then you would think that there would be holes, not hair loss. Who knows.... And, I didn't flesh these skins much. But I guess I can't complain, the price was right.

By the way, what would you charge for a big tom cat made into a rug, claws/toes/head form? Similar to a lion rug with the head mold? I'm thinking I may try to get a big tom done that way (but gotta catch him first). You can drop me an email at zstanley@earthlink.net. I know most folks try not to advertise here so email is fine if you want to answer that way.

Thanks

Zack

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#175022 - 01/13/02 08:02 PM Re: Fleshing
Zackster 2000 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 55
Loc: Kayenta, Arizona
RR - That was my old email address. It is now zstanley@citlink.net. Sorry for my confusion

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#175023 - 01/14/02 04:51 AM Re: Fleshing
River Runner Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 8930
Loc: Bloomington, WI
Zackster, to be honost with you there isn't a tannery in existence today that I know of that will guarantee against slippage. Mainly because we have no control over the skin prior to our receiving it. Not to mention, not all skins react the same in the chemicals. But still...4 out of 5 in your case, seems odd, I agree.

Coyotes, Bobcat, Coons, Bear, Cougar, etc...will all have some hair coming or showing through the flesh side of the skin when finished properly. That's because they have such thin skin. It does no harm, and I do realize the hair loss in your case was much more severe. I don't know how Foxx tans their fur so I'm kinda hanging here.

A rug is going to run you $250.00, two layers of felt, shipped to you.


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~River Runner~

Champion Tannery

www.predatormasters.com

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