Shot size for a .410 on rabbits?
- Thread starter Rustydog
- Start date
My buddy and I raise beagles and have for the last twenty years and I have seen many rabbits killed by a .410. My buddy is a crackshot and killed over 200 hundred one year with his. What we have found is that #6 shot worked well. The #7.5 worked ok also but didn't quite have as much stopping power. We also found that the 3" shells with worked much better than the standard 2.75" skeet loads.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
I agree with CGR on the #6 shot. It is much better for rabbit sized game than 7.5 would be in the .410
As for the shell size, I wouldn't hesitate to use 2.5" shells. There's really no need to use the 3" rounds if you can hit what you're aiming at. The only problem would be finding #6 shot in a 2.5" loading. And FWIW ... there are no "2.75" inch shells for a .410
As for the shell size, I wouldn't hesitate to use 2.5" shells. There's really no need to use the 3" rounds if you can hit what you're aiming at. The only problem would be finding #6 shot in a 2.5" loading. And FWIW ... there are no "2.75" inch shells for a .410
Last edited:
coleridge
New member
Once upon a time, I used to shoot right many rabbits in front of some dang fine beagles. As said above 6 shot is about perfect for rabbits. However, I have to say... Unless you are shooting very tite places (which is were Peter lives),go with the 3" shells.
Ever pattern a shotgun? They spray pretty good. I realize choke constriction determines but there are always flyers, then you have a left over "pattern" . Then in that pattern there are voids. More shot in a pattern gives you a better desity with less voids. In .410, 2.5" shells generally have 1/2 oz shot, which would be 112 pellets of #6's on average. The 3" load usually sports 11/16 oz which on average would yield 155 pellets of #6's. How many pellets does it take to kill a rabbit v/s injuring him? Your gonna put 1/3 more pellts in him with a 3" shell.
If you have roads, fields, or big woods were you can catch a rabbit tearing across (you can get a shot over 10-15 yards), get the 3". A miss is a miss; but, patterning around a rabbit and/or chasing through briars to get a wounded rabbit away from the dogs before they tear it up is awful frustraiting.
If I were going to shoot rabbits for a living; I'd use 2 3/4 inch 1oz 20ga loads in #6's. They sport on average, 225 pellets and stomp Peter good! The .410 is more of a novelty item for close shots...
Ever pattern a shotgun? They spray pretty good. I realize choke constriction determines but there are always flyers, then you have a left over "pattern" . Then in that pattern there are voids. More shot in a pattern gives you a better desity with less voids. In .410, 2.5" shells generally have 1/2 oz shot, which would be 112 pellets of #6's on average. The 3" load usually sports 11/16 oz which on average would yield 155 pellets of #6's. How many pellets does it take to kill a rabbit v/s injuring him? Your gonna put 1/3 more pellts in him with a 3" shell.
If you have roads, fields, or big woods were you can catch a rabbit tearing across (you can get a shot over 10-15 yards), get the 3". A miss is a miss; but, patterning around a rabbit and/or chasing through briars to get a wounded rabbit away from the dogs before they tear it up is awful frustraiting.
If I were going to shoot rabbits for a living; I'd use 2 3/4 inch 1oz 20ga loads in #6's. They sport on average, 225 pellets and stomp Peter good! The .410 is more of a novelty item for close shots...
yotenaylor
New member
When I use my 410 for rabbits I use 3" #4 shot. Theres less shot, but what is there packs a lot more wallop. All in all I tear up less meat.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: coleridge
If I were going to shoot rabbits for a living; I'd use 2 3/4 inch 1oz 20ga loads in #6's. They sport on average, 225 pellets and stomp Peter good! The .410 is more of a novelty item for close shots...
Good information.
It never ceases to amaze me when I see a "well-meaning" father buy his son/daughter their first shotgun ... and it's usually a very lightweight .410 ..... Their intent is genuine, but their method is faulty. The little 4# guns literally stomp the kids with recoil, and the small loads are extremely unforgiving in the accuracy department. On the skeet circuit, the .410 is considered to be the EXPERT class. The little guns require exacting accuracy. While I love them, and a lot of people shoot them very well, they're definitely very demanding to shoot with any effectiveness.
If I were going to shoot rabbits for a living; I'd use 2 3/4 inch 1oz 20ga loads in #6's. They sport on average, 225 pellets and stomp Peter good! The .410 is more of a novelty item for close shots...
Good information.
It never ceases to amaze me when I see a "well-meaning" father buy his son/daughter their first shotgun ... and it's usually a very lightweight .410 ..... Their intent is genuine, but their method is faulty. The little 4# guns literally stomp the kids with recoil, and the small loads are extremely unforgiving in the accuracy department. On the skeet circuit, the .410 is considered to be the EXPERT class. The little guns require exacting accuracy. While I love them, and a lot of people shoot them very well, they're definitely very demanding to shoot with any effectiveness.
wyoshooter
New member
I must have had an exceptional one as a kid. I killed my fair share of rabbits, squirrels and pheasants with it. Still have it to this day, a Winchester model 370. I love that gun as much today as I did 36 years ago. For rabbits I would use 4's or 6's and never look back.
Tim Neitzke
New member
6
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
If you want to give a kid a shotgun, make it at least a 28ga. Anything less will turn them off from shotgun shooting.
Jack
Jack
Kzone
New member
Originally Posted By: Jack RobertsIf you want to give a kid a shotgun, make it at least a 28ga. Anything less will turn them off from shotgun shooting.
Jack
In my 40yrs of gunning in the field did i ever see a kid get turned off from shootin a 410.I've seen grown men get turned off but never a kid.My cousins,friends and I killed alot of small game with 410s in our youth and those memories will last forever.The secret to hitting with 410's is just shoot them.
Jack
In my 40yrs of gunning in the field did i ever see a kid get turned off from shootin a 410.I've seen grown men get turned off but never a kid.My cousins,friends and I killed alot of small game with 410s in our youth and those memories will last forever.The secret to hitting with 410's is just shoot them.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Kzone
In my 40yrs of gunning in the field did i ever see a kid get turned off from shootin a 410.
Turned OFF? I agree. But learning to FLINCH and not keep the head on the stock is the usual outcome. They DO create memories that will last a lifetime ... as well as bad mounting and shooting habits that can ALSO last a lifetime. I don't have a problem giving a child a .410 ... but the gun should be heavy enough to be fired comfortably. And very few guns in the "budget" range are heavy enough. Jack gave good advice ... 28 or larger ... for several reasons. The .410 is going to be cast aside when serious hunting comes about. While the 28 can be used for most upland birds and small game, the .410 is going to be a struggle on wild pheasants and late season quail. Anything past 25 yards is stretching the .410
Originally Posted By: KzoneThe secret to hitting with 410's is just shoot them.
LOL .... The "secret" to hitting with a .410 is no different than the "secret" to hitting with any other gauge. You have to hit the target with the pattern. Plain and simple. No amount of shooting is going to cause you to improve unless you use proper technique, and the gun fits. If you disregard the limited range, the difference in a .410 as opposed to other gauges is the pattern size and density. That's it. A good shooter with a 12 or 20 gauge will also be a good shooter with a .410 ... and a poor shooter with other gauges will really struggle.
There's no magic formula or secret required to shoot well with the .410 ... just more precision.
In my 40yrs of gunning in the field did i ever see a kid get turned off from shootin a 410.
Turned OFF? I agree. But learning to FLINCH and not keep the head on the stock is the usual outcome. They DO create memories that will last a lifetime ... as well as bad mounting and shooting habits that can ALSO last a lifetime. I don't have a problem giving a child a .410 ... but the gun should be heavy enough to be fired comfortably. And very few guns in the "budget" range are heavy enough. Jack gave good advice ... 28 or larger ... for several reasons. The .410 is going to be cast aside when serious hunting comes about. While the 28 can be used for most upland birds and small game, the .410 is going to be a struggle on wild pheasants and late season quail. Anything past 25 yards is stretching the .410
Originally Posted By: KzoneThe secret to hitting with 410's is just shoot them.
LOL .... The "secret" to hitting with a .410 is no different than the "secret" to hitting with any other gauge. You have to hit the target with the pattern. Plain and simple. No amount of shooting is going to cause you to improve unless you use proper technique, and the gun fits. If you disregard the limited range, the difference in a .410 as opposed to other gauges is the pattern size and density. That's it. A good shooter with a 12 or 20 gauge will also be a good shooter with a .410 ... and a poor shooter with other gauges will really struggle.
There's no magic formula or secret required to shoot well with the .410 ... just more precision.
Kzone
New member
Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: Kzone
In my 40yrs of gunning in the field did i ever see a kid get turned off from shootin a 410.
Turned OFF? I agree. But learning to FLINCH and not keep the head on the stock is the usual outcome. They DO create memories that will last a lifetime ... as well as bad mounting and shooting habits that can ALSO last a lifetime. I don't have a problem giving a child a .410 ... but the gun should be heavy enough to be fired comfortably. And very few guns in the "budget" range are heavy enough. Jack gave good advice ... 28 or larger ... for several reasons. The .410 is going to be cast aside when serious hunting comes about. While the 28 can be used for most upland birds and small game, the .410 is going to be a struggle on wild pheasants and late season quail. Anything past 25 yards is stretching the .410
Originally Posted By: KzoneThe secret to hitting with 410's is just shoot them.
LOL .... The "secret" to hitting with a .410 is no different than the "secret" to hitting with any other gauge. You have to hit the target with the pattern. Plain and simple. No amount of shooting is going to cause you to improve unless you use proper technique, and the gun fits. If you disregard the limited range, the difference in a .410 as opposed to other gauges is the pattern size and density. That's it. A good shooter with a 12 or 20 gauge will also be a good shooter with a .410 ... and a poor shooter with other gauges will really struggle.
There's no magic formula or secret required to shoot well with the .410 ... just more precision.
Now rethink everything that u wrote because u forget we are talking about children and i will explain when i get back from huntin.
In my 40yrs of gunning in the field did i ever see a kid get turned off from shootin a 410.
Turned OFF? I agree. But learning to FLINCH and not keep the head on the stock is the usual outcome. They DO create memories that will last a lifetime ... as well as bad mounting and shooting habits that can ALSO last a lifetime. I don't have a problem giving a child a .410 ... but the gun should be heavy enough to be fired comfortably. And very few guns in the "budget" range are heavy enough. Jack gave good advice ... 28 or larger ... for several reasons. The .410 is going to be cast aside when serious hunting comes about. While the 28 can be used for most upland birds and small game, the .410 is going to be a struggle on wild pheasants and late season quail. Anything past 25 yards is stretching the .410
Originally Posted By: KzoneThe secret to hitting with 410's is just shoot them.
LOL .... The "secret" to hitting with a .410 is no different than the "secret" to hitting with any other gauge. You have to hit the target with the pattern. Plain and simple. No amount of shooting is going to cause you to improve unless you use proper technique, and the gun fits. If you disregard the limited range, the difference in a .410 as opposed to other gauges is the pattern size and density. That's it. A good shooter with a 12 or 20 gauge will also be a good shooter with a .410 ... and a poor shooter with other gauges will really struggle.
There's no magic formula or secret required to shoot well with the .410 ... just more precision.
Now rethink everything that u wrote because u forget we are talking about children and i will explain when i get back from huntin.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Kzone
Now rethink everything that u wrote because u forget we are talking about children and i will explain when i get back from huntin.
No need to "explain" anything to me. The facts are the facts. The .410 is the most difficult of the shotgun gauges to shoot. The pattern is small, and the shot density is sparse. And the light-weight guns that are usually given to small children kick like a mule.............
What's to "explain" ??
Perhaps you'll venture to debate Phil Bourjaily, one of the renowned and experienced editors at Field & Stream magazine? Here is an excerpt from an article he wrote about the .410 ..................
Why .410 Shotguns Are Better for Experts than for Kids
A lot of us here probably started with .410s. The first gun I shot was a single-shot Beretta that my dad had cut down to fit me when I was quite young. I mostly remember shooting stationary paper plates and balloons blowing along the ground with it. For puncturing plates and popping balloons, a .410 is plenty of gun. For anything else, it can be challenging. There’s just not much shot in a .410 cartridge making the pattern core small and the fringes weak. I waited until both my kids were big enough to shoot 20 gauge youth model 1100s (age 11-12) to start them out because I wanted them to think shooting was fun, not frustrating.
.410s are better suited to experts with the skill to shoot the little guns and the maturity to know when not to shoot them.
If I got to hunt where there were enough birds that it didn’t bother me to pass up marginal shots, I might have a .410. If I was a Rich Guy who did my shooting on preserves, I’d own a .410 for sure, probably a Winchester Model 21. And, if I hunted squirrels seriously, I would find a Winchester lever-action 9410. Unfortunately, none of the above applies to me, which is why my gun cabinet is currently without a .410. You?
For a little more info: I am currently carrying my son all over the southeast shooting skeet tournaments. Although he is not shooting the .410 class, I have talked to many AAA Class shooters who DO shoot that class. Now remember ... they are shooting targets at predictable flights and at ranges of 25 yards. Wayne Mayes, who is possibly the best skeet shooter ever to handle a shotgun, told me to hold off on the .410 until my son was consistently shooting 490/500 with his upper gauge guns (12 & 20). Why?, I asked? "Because the .410 is the hardest, most difficult gun on the planet to learn to shoot well!" was the reply I got. Other AAA Class shooters have told me the same thing. Now ... if these guys are consistently breaking 495/500 targets or better, and they think that the .410 is difficult to use, then who are we to argue?
Now rethink everything that u wrote because u forget we are talking about children and i will explain when i get back from huntin.
No need to "explain" anything to me. The facts are the facts. The .410 is the most difficult of the shotgun gauges to shoot. The pattern is small, and the shot density is sparse. And the light-weight guns that are usually given to small children kick like a mule.............
What's to "explain" ??
Why .410 Shotguns Are Better for Experts than for Kids
A lot of us here probably started with .410s. The first gun I shot was a single-shot Beretta that my dad had cut down to fit me when I was quite young. I mostly remember shooting stationary paper plates and balloons blowing along the ground with it. For puncturing plates and popping balloons, a .410 is plenty of gun. For anything else, it can be challenging. There’s just not much shot in a .410 cartridge making the pattern core small and the fringes weak. I waited until both my kids were big enough to shoot 20 gauge youth model 1100s (age 11-12) to start them out because I wanted them to think shooting was fun, not frustrating.
.410s are better suited to experts with the skill to shoot the little guns and the maturity to know when not to shoot them.
If I got to hunt where there were enough birds that it didn’t bother me to pass up marginal shots, I might have a .410. If I was a Rich Guy who did my shooting on preserves, I’d own a .410 for sure, probably a Winchester Model 21. And, if I hunted squirrels seriously, I would find a Winchester lever-action 9410. Unfortunately, none of the above applies to me, which is why my gun cabinet is currently without a .410. You?
For a little more info: I am currently carrying my son all over the southeast shooting skeet tournaments. Although he is not shooting the .410 class, I have talked to many AAA Class shooters who DO shoot that class. Now remember ... they are shooting targets at predictable flights and at ranges of 25 yards. Wayne Mayes, who is possibly the best skeet shooter ever to handle a shotgun, told me to hold off on the .410 until my son was consistently shooting 490/500 with his upper gauge guns (12 & 20). Why?, I asked? "Because the .410 is the hardest, most difficult gun on the planet to learn to shoot well!" was the reply I got. Other AAA Class shooters have told me the same thing. Now ... if these guys are consistently breaking 495/500 targets or better, and they think that the .410 is difficult to use, then who are we to argue?
I am not sure "turned off" is the right words but I completely agree with Jack Roberts and Hidalgo. A .410 in my opinion is more of an experts gun than a kids. I am an OK shot but would not use a .410 on a Dove or Quail hunt unless that was all I had, likewise for Rabbit.
The part that could discourage kids (turn off if you will) is that they are far less likely to be successful. I do not believe they will pound a kid so much as it is just hard to hit with.
If you are a good shot with a 20 gauge or a 12 guage you will probably do fine with a .410. If you are a beginner that will most likely not be the case. Less shot makes it less likely you will hit what you are aiming at.
I want kids and all new shooters to be successful. Nothing builds confidence like success. If the new shooter actually bags a few birds or rabbits we may have a lifelong hunter or shooter on our hands. If they walk 6 miles and get nothing (which is a fact of life hunting sometimes)they may get discouraged and give up hunting and shooting.
I think if a kid is big enough to shoot a .410 which are mostly single shots or double barrels they are probably big enough for a semi automatic 20 gauge.
the semi auto 20's and 28 gauges take a bunch (I have heard around 1/3) of the felt recoil away which is good for the new shooters accuracy. The fact that the 20 and 28 gauge usually hold more shot helps with the hitting of the target also.
The part that could discourage kids (turn off if you will) is that they are far less likely to be successful. I do not believe they will pound a kid so much as it is just hard to hit with.
If you are a good shot with a 20 gauge or a 12 guage you will probably do fine with a .410. If you are a beginner that will most likely not be the case. Less shot makes it less likely you will hit what you are aiming at.
I want kids and all new shooters to be successful. Nothing builds confidence like success. If the new shooter actually bags a few birds or rabbits we may have a lifelong hunter or shooter on our hands. If they walk 6 miles and get nothing (which is a fact of life hunting sometimes)they may get discouraged and give up hunting and shooting.
I think if a kid is big enough to shoot a .410 which are mostly single shots or double barrels they are probably big enough for a semi automatic 20 gauge.
the semi auto 20's and 28 gauges take a bunch (I have heard around 1/3) of the felt recoil away which is good for the new shooters accuracy. The fact that the 20 and 28 gauge usually hold more shot helps with the hitting of the target also.
GC
Well-known member
I began with a .410 shotgun for small game hunting when I was eight years old. The small charge of shot and the full choke made hitting plenty challenging. I don't remember ever thinking it recoiled too much, but you had to be right on with the shot because there just wasn't any forgiveness built in. I killed plenty of squirrels, but rabbits, quail and doves were a struggle for me. I used that little Winchester M37 Steelbuilt single shot for two years and did manage to kill game with it, but when dad bought me a new M37 20 gauge with a modified choke when I turned 10 suddenly I couldn't miss! It was an amazing transformation that I still remember very well. It seemed I just could not miss and my confidence was sky high with my little 20 gauge. When the time came to buy my son his first shotgun you can bet it was a 20 gauge with a modified choke.
BTW, field loads of number sixes all the way for wabbits!
BTW, field loads of number sixes all the way for wabbits!
coleridge
New member
Originally Posted By: TURBO6046I shoot #8 magnum lead shot in 2.5" shells....my revolver loves them. It's got plenty of power to knock over rabbits.
I bet that's a long range weapon!!!
Hidalgo; ever run into Craig Kirkman (LINK) on the Skeet Fields? I went to high school with him & were good friends. He aint bad with a .410 on the skeet field; but doesn't carry one when we go rabbit hunting!!!
I bet that's a long range weapon!!!
Hidalgo; ever run into Craig Kirkman (LINK) on the Skeet Fields? I went to high school with him & were good friends. He aint bad with a .410 on the skeet field; but doesn't carry one when we go rabbit hunting!!!
coleridge
New member
He's not been shooting as much latley. Busy raising a family & just finished building a new house. I'm sure you will see him aound though. When you do, make sure you introduce yourself. He's a super nice guy. Tell him you met some guy named "coleridge" on the internet that knows him. He'll get a kick out of that.
Sorry for robbing the OP... 6's or 4's; that's what you need
Sorry for robbing the OP... 6's or 4's; that's what you need