.204 vs .223

This is information that was put together by Bulberry gunwroks in testing factory 32 grain Hornady ammunition for anyone that would like the info.

24 inch barrel
Shot 1 4042 fps
Shot 2 4078 fps
Shot 3 4058 fps
Shot 4 4037 fps
Shot 5 4032 fps
Average 4049 fps
Spread 46 fps

23 inch barrel
Shot 1 4034 fps
Shot 2 4049 fps
Shot 3 4063 fps
Shot 4 4056 fps
Shot 5 4071 fps
Average 4055 fps
Spread 37 fps


22 inch barrel
Shot 1 4029 fps
Shot 2 4016 fps
Shot 3 4043 fps
Shot 4 4029 fps
Shot 5 4051 fps
Average 4034 fps
Spread 35 fps

21 inch barrel
Shot 1 3995 fps
Shot 2 3977 fps
Shot 3 3999 fps
Shot 4 3985 fps
Shot 5 4001 fps
Average 3991 fps
Spread 24 fps


20 inch barrel
Shot 1 3966 fps
Shot 2 3994 fps
Shot 3 3976 fps
Shot 4 3971 fps
Shot 5 3962 fps
Average 3974 fps
Spread 32 fps

19 inch barrel
Shot 1 3837 fps
Shot 2 3863 fps
Shot 3 3849 fps
Shot 4 3877 fps
Shot 5 3871 fps
Average 3859 fps
Spread 40 fps


18 inch barrel
Shot 1 3782 fps
Shot 2 3821 fps
Shot 3 3849 fps
Shot 4 3779 fps
Shot 5 3811 fps
Average 3808 fps
Spread 70 fps

17 inch barrel
Shot 1 3799 fps
Shot 2 3776 fps
Shot 3 3760 fps
Shot 4 3801 fps
Shot 5 3784 fps
Average 3784 fps
Spread 41 fps


16 inch barrel
Shot 1 3728 fps
Shot 2 3668 fps
Shot 3 3654 fps
Shot 4 3694 fps
Shot 5 3705 fps
Average 3690 fps
Spread 74 fps

15 inch barrel
Shot 1 3615 fps
Shot 2 3551 fps
Shot 3 3516 fps
Shot 4 3540 fps
Shot 5 3519 fps
Average 3548 fps
Spread 100 fps
 
Thats fine but an AR is going to get less FPS then a bolt action in the same barrel lenth. I'm shooting an R-15 carbine .223 with a 18" barrel. I've been developing loads for it with 55 Vmav, 60 Vmax, and 55 NBT. Every shot goes through my crony. It gets less on every thing then the mauals suggest. I know this is imperfect info, but the 204 is an excellent round in a bolt gun and may not be in a AR. We need some members with 204s in an AR that have shot the factory 32 grain Hornady amo through a Chrony to post their barrel lenght and FPS for comparison. My 2 cents. Alec
 
Alec

You are exactly right about the speed being reduced through an ar platform. I shoot an R-15 with a 22" barrel and with the 40gr nosler's I am shooting about 150-200 fps less than a 24" bolt gun. But my AR will handle a significantly higher powder charge before signs of pressure than the 2 guys I hunt with that are shooting bolt guns. With this higher charge I am achieving an average of about 150 fps more than the bolt guns.

BTW I am loading quite a bit over the Max load in the Nosler book. But am 0.8gr of H322 under where I saw the first sign of pressure.

As far as using an ar in 204 for a calling gun. I hunt with a couple of guys shooting Bushmaster predators.

Guess What???? Bushmaster lists them as 8.0lbs Bushy 223

Now Guess What Else???? Remington lists my 204 at 7 3/4lbs R-15 204

None of us complain about weight for fear of being called a pu$$y!

Besides one of em actually carries a freaking 11lb Savage.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Suck it up, buy what you want, kill everything in sight and move on.
lol.gif
 
i think you guys are looking way to into it. if im 200 yards out and i hit a yote (take your choice of lethal location) with a .223 out of an ar with a 18" barrel and i take the same exact shot with a 223 with a 24" barrel on a bolt gun the coyote is going down. doesnt matter.

if a hunter is 300 yards out with an ar that has a 14.5" barrel and shooting 55g fmj at a coyote and hits it in the lethal zone its going down for the count. ive seen it first hand. the only thing cool about a .204 ruger is when i shot one i felt like the taget was hit before i actually heard the bang. thats how fast it felt shooting out of the gun.

forget about stats, forget about technical mumbo jumbo. its a coyote, not a deer. if a 14" m4 can kill a human your good to go with coyotes. where do you hunt? is it very brushy? is it dense? i would suggest a shorter barrel, something like 16 or 18 for manuevering. if your gonna lying in the prone position in the plains id reccomend a longer barrel because of how much easier it is to manuver a gun on a bipod that has a longer barrel (atleast to me). to me, 24" is overkill. if you need a barrel that long to shoot a good distance (350 yards) 20" is fine. any extra power your getting from a longer barrel is not really gonna be a factor because your shooting a coyote not a human or big game. so thats what i have to say about all the load information reguarding fps and what not. again thats just my opinion. some guys have fun with stats and thats cool, it just usually frustrates me when trying to make a decision bc i get caught up in them.

as for the answer to your .204 vs .223 id go .223 all the way. cheaper to shoot. so many more load configurations and bullet tips to experiment with should you get specifications conscious. plus, lets say you go hunting and you need ammo, basic old 55g fmj will get the job done.
 
sdr501 you mentioned the Nosler Manual. I have 2 Nosler Manuals, the latest and an old green one. The velocities listed in the Nosler manual are usualy higher then you will get. I was loading for my 7mm mag and had to use more powder to get a velosity they got in less. The reason is that they test shoot with custom barrels like Hart, Ligia, Shilen,Kriger, Wisman ect. These barrels are tighter and get less blow-by thus higher velosity. I thought you might be interested. Any way about the 204, if it did get way less velosity, then normal, (like 300-400 FPS) in a short AR then it might not have alot of punch compared to 223. I kind of think it depends on really high velosity ,to perform well, due to its really small weight. Alec
 
Originally Posted By: outlawskinnydi think you guys are looking way to into it. if im 200 yards out and i hit a yote (take your choice of lethal location) with a .223 out of an ar with a 18" barrel and i take the same exact shot with a 223 with a 24" barrel on a bolt gun the coyote is going down. doesnt matter.

if a hunter is 300 yards out with an ar that has a 14.5" barrel and shooting 55g fmj at a coyote and hits it in the lethal zone its going down for the count. ive seen it first hand. the only thing cool about a .204 ruger is when i shot one i felt like the taget was hit before i actually heard the bang. thats how fast it felt shooting out of the gun.

forget about stats, forget about technical mumbo jumbo. its a coyote, not a deer. if a 14" m4 can kill a human your good to go with coyotes. where do you hunt? is it very brushy? is it dense? i would suggest a shorter barrel, something like 16 or 18 for manuevering. if your gonna lying in the prone position in the plains id reccomend a longer barrel because of how much easier it is to manuver a gun on a bipod that has a longer barrel (atleast to me). to me, 24" is overkill. if you need a barrel that long to shoot a good distance (350 yards) 20" is fine. any extra power your getting from a longer barrel is not really gonna be a factor because your shooting a coyote not a human or big game. so thats what i have to say about all the load information reguarding fps and what not. again thats just my opinion. some guys have fun with stats and thats cool, it just usually frustrates me when trying to make a decision bc i get caught up in them.

as for the answer to your .204 vs .223 id go .223 all the way. cheaper to shoot. so many more load configurations and bullet tips to experiment with should you get specifications conscious. plus, lets say you go hunting and you need ammo, basic old 55g fmj will get the job done.
Thank you for this stiff dose of common sense. My thots on this subject agree with yours.............





 
Alec you are correct about the velocities in the nosler manual. I am not making reference to velocities of my gun in relation to the nosler manual. I am talking velocities in relation to other guns.

Now when I am talking about the powder charge...that's a different story altogether. I am speaking of my max in relation to the max in the load manual. I use the max as a guideline not an actual max. They list the number in the book as a max for liability reasons that they cannot control such as every gun is different.

Yes the 204 needs a high velocity to perform. But there is a caveat. If the velocity is too high for the bullet and you happen to hit bone. Well I have seen a few run off when shot with a 20 cal bullet. That is why I just use 40gr nosler bullets. I have never had one run off. Seen a couple run off with some other brands of bullets. Only when really smokin' the bullet and hit the shoulder or something really hard like that. They always die, just not DRT.
 
I hesitate to give my 2 cents here because of a lack of a whole lot of experience with either one, compared to some members but decided to anyway.First I`ll say I have a couple friends who have .204`s and they like them. One even has a upper in .17 (Remington?)and he`s a big fan of that caliber.I have loaded some rounds for the .204 and shot it from the bench out to 100yards from my backyard range.I didn`t care for the fact that to clean the barrel a rod smaller than the one for my .223 was required.Lee reloading does not make a trim tool for .204 Ruger nor a factory crimp die. (yep, I know Lee is not the best equipment and other MFG.`s make the tools, and crimping is unnesessary).My other friend who has a custom built .204 said he likes it because it is easier to view the carnage while shooting PD`s.I felt like the R25 I have in .243 Winchester has less recoil than the one friends R15 in .204. I could be wrong on this but it seems the rifles in .204 Ruger are a little picky as to what bullet weight they like and there aren`t a ton of choices anyway. My .223 Rem. DPMS shoots bullets from 50g to 60g with excellent results. As far as flat shooting and trajectory are concerned, I never messed with any ballistic software yet but I would be curious to see how the .204 Ruger with any bullet stacks up against the .243 Winchester with a 58g - 65g V Max out to 300-500 yards, and throw in a bit of a cross wind. I THINK the .243 Win .might really shine.
Between the .223 Remington and .204 Ruger, I would choose the .223 Rem.
But then again I also have a R25 in .243 Win.
 
Ok weve got 2 distinct subjucts and I can work on both. Nosler Inf Volume 6 7mm REM Mag: Wiseman 24" test barrel, FED 215 primer,140gr Acubond Max load 67.5 grains Reloader 22, gives 3340 FPS muzzel velosity. My load Nosler custom brass, 69.0 grains RL 22 last time at range it got 3172,3185,3102,3193,3172,3083 gun Winchester model 70 24" barrel with BOSS.This is one example of the velosity differences, I've herd od it from others as well.

Difference in AR vellosity and Bolt Velosity :
load data from Hodgdon website .223 60gr V-max minimum load is 25.0 grain Varget for 2924 FPS. My test load Same except 25.5 grains Varget and only 2633,2679,and 2629 FPS. Thats 1/2 grain more powder for almost 300 FPS less velosity. That cant all be about barrel length. Alec
 
I don't know much about the .204 but i can tell you this for sure. .223 is everywhere and can be very cheap to shoot. I reload and I have a lot of options for reloading it. I know some other states are trying to do the commi cali thing and go copper bullet. Well, that isn't too expensive either for the most part. So, if your state turns to copper, .223 bullets are pretty easy to find as well. I go cheaper and abundance, because if you find yourself in need of .204 rounds, they will come at a greater cost. just my 2 cents
 
Back
Top