fur friendly - 17 cal vs 20 cals???

cet

cet

New member
I'm bouncing around ideas for a new CALLING rifle. I'm currently using a 22-250 and it gets alittle rough with the fur sometimes. The vast majority of my shots are under 150 yards with the occasional shot up to 300 yards. This gun will be for coyotes, we have very few fox or bobcats in my turf.

So, I'm thinking something along the lines of a 17 Remington, 17 Tactical, 20 Tactical, 20 Practical or 204R. I will most likely be working off of a Savage action. I do reload for standard cartridges, but never formed brass or loaded wildcats. This seems like a good chance to start learning though!

I'm looking for experienced opinions out there on the performance and cost advantages and disadvantages of the different .17 and .20 calibers.

Lay it on me! I've got alot to learn!!!
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I have been shooting the .17 Remington for over 30 years. I guess that you could say that I am fond of the little round. Many a ground squirrel and quite a few prairie dogs have fallen to this little cutie. BUT- if I was going to have me a high stepping .17 caliber nowadays I would look no further than a .17 Predator. Made by necking down and fireforming .223 Remington, you get all the performance (and then some) of a .17 Remington with much cheaper and easier to find brass. I have lots of brass and loaded ammo for my current .17 Remmy, but if I was starting new, I would get me a .17 Predator and go out and have some fun. And .17 calibers are certainly fun.
 
Are you allowed to use FMJ in your hunting area? If so why not just keep using the .22-250 and put a Sierra Game King 55 gr FMJ in it? Little hole in tinny hole out as long as you go rib to rib!

Jay
 
I just found a couple article on the 17 predator by Dan Clements and Dave Affleck. The cartridge sure sounds impressive! I like the idea of being able to use quality 223 brass instead of being stuck with Remington brass if I went the 17 Rem route.

Could anyone give me an estimate cost of the dies needed to form the 17 Predator cases? How many steps does it take to form the brass? What about barrel life?

THANKS!!!
 
Originally Posted By: cetI don't like the idea of FMJs. Too much of a chance for ricochets.

Agreed
Using FMJ for hunting is poor advice at best, but to each his own I guess.

I'm a big 17Rem fan but I've never owned a 204 so I can't give a hands on comparison.
I can tell you however, that I talked a friend down in Nevada who's killed a truck load with his 204 into buying a 17Rem. He now ownes two of them, and honestly hasn't used the 204 since.

Luck

Oh yea,,, I also own TWO 17Rem's.
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I did some forum searching and it sounds like the 17 Tactical brass could be formed easier using 20 Tactical lapua brass than the 17 Predator. The 17-204 sounds like another option too.

I believe it will be expensive to purchase the dies for 17 Predator and it would take at three steps to get the cases ready for fire forming - correct?

I quess I'm looking a caliber with brass that is easy for a novice to form.
 
.204 is the way to go. Ammo is cheap as .223 if you reload and it is just as fur friendly as the 17's with more knock down at longer range. Plus unless you are purely looking for something no one else has there are a lot of really good factory rifles that are accurate as all get out.
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This is my Savage 12fv with a 4" chop, and it's a tack driver. I wish it had a lighter barrel, but I use it mostly on PD's. When or if I replace the barrel it wil get a light profile, if I don't get another in a different profile first.
 
A friend of mine has a 17 Tactical. Very impressive with Todd Kindler High BC 30 Golds. Shoots like a laser out to 400.
Personaly I shoot the .204 with 40 Bergers. So far I've only killed yotes out between 250-275,,but they drop right there,very little fur damage.
 
I have a Tactical 20 which is a pleasure to shoot. The initial
fire forming rounds are just as accurate as the fire formed
rounds. Have only shot one coyote with it. At 125yds with a
33 Vmax (no longer made, Hornady later went with the 32g), it
was bang, drop dead. Small entrance hole, no exit. Same story
with many dozens of marauding coons. Feral cats have no exits
if shot length ways. Side shots are a different messy story.

Yes, cases are easy and cheap to come by. The first time the
.223 cases are put through the Tac 20 die may scare ya. There
is usually a slight wrinkle where the shoulder meets the case
body. This gets blown out on the fire forming process, and
doesn't reoccur.

As with the .17's, you can keep your scope on target with any
of the .20's. Is one cal. better than the other? I dunno.
The others are also deadly and fun to shoot. Probably a
matter of which trips your trigger.
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There is not point in making a 20 caliber wildcat in my opinion. If you buy once fired brass you usually get mixed brands which is not gonna give you consistant accuracy throughout all your reloads. The price of .204 winchester/remington brass is the same price as .223 winchester/remington brass. Plus there is not wrinkles or fire-forming. I buy once fired for my 6x45's and it all has to be sorted and weighed, its a PITA! The only way its worth the time is if I can get a large quanity of Lake City. RCBS dies for a .204 will cost less then a wildcat and loading will be easier over all...
 
One of my coyote rifles is a 17 remmy. I have never (so far) had a bullet exit on a coyote, and you have to look hard and long to find the entrence. I have taken coyotes out to 330 yards and there is almost no chance of a bullet getting away from you.
I have shot a few 204's but won't own one only because I have the 17 and a 223.
And I make 17 rem brass out of 223, however, you need to turn your necks.
 

What do you guys consider to be the best bobcat and coyote cartridge and bullets, considering saving pelts, especially on bobcats? I've never owned either a .17 Rem or .204.
 
Originally Posted By: MPFD17 ackley hornet, followed by 17 fireball

I agree, although I wouldn't hesitate to throw in the 17Rem.
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
What do you guys consider to be the best bobcat and coyote cartridge and bullets, considering saving pelts, especially on bobcats? I've never owned either a .17 Rem or .204.

6mm06,

The 204 is a dandy for Coyotes, but might be a bit hard on Cats. The 17's are the answer and a Berger 25gr. Match bullet. I've heard from some pretty reliable sources that the Hornady 25gr. hp isn't hard on Coyote pelts.
WARNING: 17 calibers are very addictive and there is no known remedy.
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Originally Posted By: K22Originally Posted By: MPFD17 ackley hornet, followed by 17 fireball

I agree, although I wouldn't hesitate to throw in the 17Rem.

Agree'd!
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDOriginally Posted By: K22Originally Posted By: MPFD17 ackley hornet, followed by 17 fireball

I agree, although I wouldn't hesitate to throw in the 17Rem.

Agree'd!

I think that makes us both 17 substance abuse addicts.
 
I spent alot of time trying to figure out exactly what to buy or build, just like you are. I was also looking for a rifle for barn yard hunting. With most shots being 150 to 200 yards. With an occasional 300 yards shot. And I looked real hard at the hot rod 17's. But if your shooting really is the range in which you discuss then you really do not need that hot rod 17. Sure they are great. But so is your 22-250. But both are too much for those shorter ranges. Heck the 17 FireBall would do just fine.

I am looking real hard at the 19 Badger. Plenty of power for shots to 300, but not over powered.

Heck even a 223 would do what you are looking for.

Lots of options out there. However always getting the fastest is not always the best choice. Especially when you said you want to save the pelts. And you started by saying your distances are short. Tom.
 
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