Ran into a Slob Rancher

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Man, I can't believe the ignorance of some people. Things are done differant in differant parts of the country, but as far as I know landowner rights are landowner rights. Land taxes are done according to the value of the land. If you have a house and developed land it is taxed at a higher rate than dirt and mesquite. Trust me western ranchers pay more than their fair share. The state land they lease goes to help the state government and the school systems. Most of the ranching families here in NM that I know are solid people, would help anyone and are outwardly generous with allowing people to trespass on their property. The trend I am seeing over the last 15 years is the old families are selling out, due to high taxes, increased costs, low cattle prices and weather conditions. People from back east with money who always wanted to play cowboy tend to be the ones to buy their property. First thing that happens is gates are locked, even to public land and it turns into a battle to get them open again. Nobody gets to utilize the land or even access through the land. These modern day cowboys could care less if they are profitable because for many of them it is a tax deduction from their other revenue streams. So if you want to see continued loss of access then by all means let’s make it harder for the small rancher to make a living. Yes out west 7000 acres is a very small rancher. For people living back east they raise cows by how many cows per acre, out here it is more how many acres/cow.

drscott
 
I have a couple of questions for the original poster and for bullwhip. Who ownes the ground? Who farmes the ground? Who gave you permission? What date did they give you permission to hunt the ground? If you can't answer all of these questions when asked you are tresspassing and you my friend are the one at fault. I can tell you to the tee on every acre that I hunt who ownes/farmes the ground. Also who gave ME the permission and on what day of that year I obtain that permission. Hunting on someone else ground is not a right it is a privelege.
One more question. Any idea how many acres out west it takes to raise one calf from birth to market. I sure don't but someone on here can. I do know that it takes more than a couple. And depending on the year it could be more than a couple of hundred. It is a business and needs to be treated that way. The smaller ranchers that have gone by the wayside may not have treated it as a business and that could be why they are not around anymore. In my area I have seen it the agricultural technicians(farmers) are the ones that are growing and suceeding. They are the one that have the new equipment and the ones that are buying/renting ground. It is a business. Not a hobby.
Respect other people rights to say No.
 
I haven't kept up with this thread but the few I have read make me laugh.

First let me get some things clear.

I was not going to hunt on this Ranchers property. I was going to hunt on State land. I was going to use the road that had the least obstacles to get there.

2. Just because there is a gate on the road does not mean that you cannot use the road. Much of Nevada is fenced on state land with closed gates on it. Yes there was a sign thats said ACCESS CAN BE DENIED AT ANY TIME. The day before there where Cows standing there and I assumed the Rancher was trying to keep the Cows from getting into his field. We had been using the same road the 3 previous day with nothing being said.(Hypothetically. With the wording on the sign a Lawyer could have a hay day making a case)
If your not going to allow access put up a sign that says NO ACCESS do not leave it open to interpretation.

3. The only reason this guy got his shorts in a wad was because of the quads I was towing. That was the only reason. I still went back into the same country by a different route with more wear on this guys so called love for his cow country. IT WAS NOT ON HIS RANCH...

4 The problem with SOME OF THESE RANCHERS is that they think if they make an improvement to the public land and have used this land for sometime. The improvements make it their land and they try to keep everyone off of it.
NOTICE I SAID SOME. This is the reason why Nevada passed a Law that states you must allow access to state owned land. This way one can't buy the access road and then close it for their own private reserve.

5 All the guy had to say was that it was not public access you need to leave. Not get [beeep] about it and it would have been a non issue. He didn't even have to say please leave. Any other time if someone talked to me the way this guy did we would have a knock down drag out. But because I was Hunting I didn't want to cause a problem. The guy made an Enemy.

Yes I was on his land and was wanting to leave as soon as I found out I was in the wrong. All you have to do is talk to me with the same respect you want to have.


With the lack of respect from this guy in my opinion made hime a Slob Rancher. Much the same as the lack of respect can make you a Slob Hunter.

The few post I have read makes me glad that I live out West were one is truly free.
 
Was it a public road thru private land or was it a
private road on private land ?
Makes all the difference in the world.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwhipdogcatcher whats it to ya.

Some taxpayer is paying for the upkeep, management of that public land. And if it is federal every taxpayer is paying part of the PILT payment to the state and local taxing authorities.

Basically there is no such thing as a free public hunting land, if you are hunting in federal, I am supporting your hunting habit. Maybe that land needs to be sold pay down the federal deficit.

Read this http://www.doi.gov/pilt/ It explains your "free ride"
 
I remember when I was a kid people would try to cut through our property. My grandfather would meet them on the road with a shotgun. He was an onery ol' cuss for sure. I never saw the same vehicle twice though. I've never had single problem with a rancher. Sure they show up fired up and ready to rip you a new one but once they find out you aren't the hind end of a donkey they start giving info on where the dogs are. Heck, I've even been invited to a steak dinner by one. Respect goes a long way with country folk.
 
TrapShooter12, whether the road is a public access road or not is your obligation to find out, not the land owners. If it is indeed a public access road you are completely justified in your being annoyed at the rancher. If not, you were tresspassing and you have no right to say a word about it. In fact, had you been in Montana, the landowner could have pressed charges and you'd be in a world of hurt right now.
 
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbobThe ranchers I know are all 5th generation or more families that love the work and lifestyle that they live.

They are not rich but they do own a bunch of land that has been in their families for years.
Two of the families have lived on and worked these ranches for over 100 years.

I think it is pretty cool that I have some friends that could sell their property for millions of dollars and quit working but they have chosen not to. None of these families have hired employees to do the work. All of the work is done by the families and their friends and neighbors.

Where these ranches are located it takes lots of acres to raise a cow and a calf. Our average rainfall is around 6" per year. The ranchers in this area can't feed cattle and break even on what it would cost them to feed the cattle.

Quite often the ranchers have to sell cattle they don't really want to sell because of the lack of rainfall. If no feed grows in the spring they have to sell the cattle that they have worked hard to raise.

I hope I am dead and gone before all of the large family owned cattle ranches in this country are sold and split up.

maby 1 generation before that it was Indians land . what political view makes that OK.
 
Trap,

Most ranchers and farmers live a good but often times a very tough life. Most (not all) folks workday usually ends after 8-10 hours. Ranchers and farmers days are usually double that 7 days a week and on constant call. The little things that some take forgranted like maintaining fences, cartpaths and roads, hayfields, and vegetation to prevent errosion ect. require upkeep, which means additional expense for them as well as additional time out of their already long day. From the sound of his reaction I'd say that at some point some idiots in quads went in there and tore things up. Ruts in roads, doughnuts in hayfields, ect. would tend to piss any one of us off if it were our farm or ranch. It would seem that you caught the riccochet as a result. The ranchers knee-jerk reaction towards you may not have been justified but if you put yourself in his place I think you can understand it.
As far as getting permission goes I always try and get it from the landowner directly. That way he knows exactly who you are. Getting permission from a second party almost always leads to a problem at some point.
Bottom line is the guy was probably having a bad day as a direct result of a recent action by someone running quads irresponsibly, just tearing things up as they went. If it were me I would make an attempt to talk to the man and apologize for not seeking his permission directly and for the misunderstanding and politely thank him for his time. He may tell you to get lost, he may say nothing at all, OR he may realize that he jumped the gun by blaming you for the action of others and allow you to access his land. Either way you have nothing to lose. Guess it all depends on how you portrayed yourself to him while you were being chastised. If you handled it badly by copping an attitude then I would just forget it. If you were polite and handled it well I would go talk to the man again.
As for the lock on the gate? I think the sign pretty well covers it. Just my $.02

 
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Originally Posted By: bullwhipOriginally Posted By: derbyacresbobThe ranchers I know are all 5th generation or more families that love the work and lifestyle that they live.

They are not rich but they do own a bunch of land that has been in their families for years.
Two of the families have lived on and worked these ranches for over 100 years.

I think it is pretty cool that I have some friends that could sell their property for millions of dollars and quit working but they have chosen not to. None of these families have hired employees to do the work. All of the work is done by the families and their friends and neighbors.

Where these ranches are located it takes lots of acres to raise a cow and a calf. Our average rainfall is around 6" per year. The ranchers in this area can't feed cattle and break even on what it would cost them to feed the cattle.

Quite often the ranchers have to sell cattle they don't really want to sell because of the lack of rainfall. If no feed grows in the spring they have to sell the cattle that they have worked hard to raise.

I hope I am dead and gone before all of the large family owned cattle ranches in this country are sold and split up.

maby 1 generation before that it was Indians land . what political view makes that OK.

Seriously!!!! Who comes to this site for this crap! I don't! I come here to learn and talk about predator hunting and things associated with it. If you want to debate take it somewhere else or in a PM!

It must be the time of year, it seems a lot of the forums I'm on lately people are getting way to snippy.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwhipmaby 1 generation before that it was Indians land . what political view makes that OK.

I think most of them, not being from India, prefer either their actual tribe name, or "Native American" or "Natives".

Colonel Miles, speaking to the Lakota Sitting Bull, from the movie "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" (quote might be in the book, dunno- been a long time since I read it), makes this point:

"No matter what your legends say, you didn’t sprout from the plains like the spring grasses and you didn’t coalesce out of the ether. You came out of the Minnesota woodlands armed to the teeth and set upon your fellow man. You massacred the Kiowa, the Omaha, the Ponca, the Oto and the Pawnee without mercy. ....Chief Sitting Bull, the proposition that you were a peaceable people before the appearance of the white man is the most fanciful legend of all! You were killing each other for hundreds of moons before the first white stepped foot on this continent. You conquered those tribes, lusting for their game and their lands. Just as we have now conquered you for no less noble a cause.”

Someone will try to take this land from us in the maybe not-so-distant future. Those who want to stay will do what people who want to stay always do- fight. Someone will win and someone will lose. Sucks, but it's life.

 
My family owns a ranch that was indeed indian land before my great great grandfather settled there and homesteaded. It sure doesn't matter now days though does it? Those were different times that are all in the past! Back then they probably would have just shot someone for trespassing or stealing a horse or cow! My father in law just added a few thousand more acres to his ranch.... Is he a land hoarder as well? never mind the 1.2 million dollars that he spent doing it. I say if you don't like the way that ranchers handle what they have rightfully paid for, go spend your own million bucks and then you can do as you please.....I bet that it won't be turning a blind eye when strangers show up though!!!!
 
I look at it kind of like this,

If bullwhip or Trap has a son and he gave me permission to use his Dads flower bed as a restroom for a #2, and eithers dad walked up to me and caught me, i would except a A$$ chewing.


But if i was at eithers house and ASKED them nicly and they said yea go over there in the flowers it will be good for them. I wouldnt be worried about any A$$ chewing and in the end both partys would be happy.

It all boils down to how you RESPECT the LAND OWNER.
 
Quote:maby 1 generation before that it was Indians land . what political view makes that OK.

Are you 100% native American bullwhip? If not, and considering the beliefs implied by your statement above, I wonder how you can morally justify staying in N. America yourself. You might be happier in say, France? Perhaps Russia?
 
Originally Posted By: nmleonQuote:maby 1 generation before that it was Indians land . what political view makes that OK.

Are you 100% native American bullwhip? If not, and considering the beliefs implied by your statement above, I wonder how you can morally justify staying in N. America yourself. You might be happier in say, France? Perhaps Russia?

X2
 
nobody gets more bailouts then farmers.I hear them every year.then if they do get a good crop but they think the price is not high enough they let the crop spoil on the groung.but then if they get a less then normal ,or bad crop the public has to bail them out.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwhipnobody gets more bailouts then farmers.I hear them every year.then if they do get a good crop but they think the price is not high enough they let the crop spoil on the groung.but then if they get a less then normal ,or bad crop the public has to bail them out.

Kind of like hunting public land at the expense of the taxpayer.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwhipfitz sorry I met to say you should back up and see who said slob Rancher it wasn't me.
also if you are driving around someones ranch 4 hours lost, and never seen a cow .Farmers even get block permits .then gut shoot the deer so they don't have to deal with them . all the while post their land to keep everyone out. also you don't think Michigan farmers raise beef . and they don't need 7000 acres to do it on. oh that's right you want 7000 acres so you don't have to feed them.the big ranches have put the small time farmers out of business .
just like all big conglomerates ." large companies "for all you d::b cowboys. also I had to work in the rain also ,poor me.

Large ranchs out west are neccessary because it is dry country. In Michigan and Ohio in normal years we get enough rain to support a excellant grass crop. One rancher in WY told me his ranch along a river he need 35 acres to support one head of cattle in a good year during the summer. During the winter he needed 100 acres to support one head of cattle. To compare WY and MI is just out of line.
But then stupid is stupid be. OH well.
 
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