What is a Decoy dog?

Devin69

New member
What is a Decoy dog and what are his duties?
What is expected of him.
Is he to go get the coyotes or just sit by the caller and recover a wounded coyote?
What should the range on the dog be? If any?
How big should the dog be? Big small or med? Or does it matter?
Should the dog be a certian color?
1,2, or more dogs? Or does it matter
Does the terrain or cover play into what kind of dog you use or need?
This really could be a good discussion but too many of they guys that get on here wear their feelings on the shoulders and get thier panties all wadded up.
This forum has not had a good discussion for a long,long time. If it is true that many could learn then lets hear from all you guys that know how to do it and have seen a True Decoy dog work.
 
I think that would be a good discussion as long as it stays civil. I'm new to the whole Decoy Dog thing, and would like to learn more about it. I know it was a big deal about how Tony runs his dogs, but what is a Ture Decoy Dog. I would like to hear all about it. Im all ears. Thanks
 
Come on Devin, i'd sure like to hear you opinions on a decoy dog. I feel we could learn alot from you as you are a true dogman. I've seen a few decoy dogs work and I'm gonna train my pup to be like them. I'm just a newbie to decoy dogs, so take it for what it's worth.

I feel a decoy dog goes out and interacts with the coyotes.Coming back towards the caller and bringing the coyotes with. I also want to have "enough" dog to finish off a cripple. I want a med ranging dog, not a dog that will run em outta the country but is willing to get out there and work. Ideal would be to have 2 dogs working. I prefer a med dog and color doesn't matter. Maybe i'm just dreaming but that's what i believe a decoy dog is in my mind. All my opinions come from things I've learned(alot from a few guys on the board) and the others are from seeing what works.
 
Devin, for this discussion, do we need to define "decoy" -vs- "tolling" so that all is on the same page?

Thanks...Tony
 
Ok, great. I am not picking on you and thank you for your input, but let me dig a little deeper.
If a coyote follows a dog back ( which I have seen a million times) does that make him a decoy dog?
What is expected of the dog if the coyote hangs up out of range?
Does the part of the country you live in determine how big and color?
Does the kind of livestock in your area play into what kind of dog you need? Or should I say the type of food the coyote is preying on determine what kind of dog you will be using?
Does the dog need any kind of nose? cold or hot nose? Or is a dog that does more hunting by sight do better?
Yes I can go on and on and I will keep it up if we get more people to play this decoy dog game.
 
What is the difference Tony? If there is a difference can one dog do the same job? Why or why not? And what would that dog need differnetly that the dog that just does one job?
 
I'd love to hear some answers on those last questions cause i've never really thought about some of those. I really need to call you and rack your brain devin.
 
If we can all play nice the answers to these questions should all come out. I am not saying I know the answers to questions but I would sure love to hear some guys that know a little something about Decoy Dogs give there input. And I don't think we will all agree on one answer but it will be fun to see how everyone answers and what they expect out of their dogs. I don't think that any one way will be the right way, so I hope that a bunch of guys will join in. Should be a fun discussion.
 
Does it count if it happens out of fear? I wish I had the answer to your questions. My dogs are most of the time chasing butterflies, birds, and each other. Every now and then they will run into a coyote. Then out of fear they run back to me and hide behind my back. But it works real well as the coyote sometimes follows back.
 
Well I hope this is open for everyone, not just the pros.
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I don't have a decoy dog, I don't know jack s*** about hunting with a decoy dog, but I can tell you what my newbie perception of one is, from reading here and other places too. I feel a decoy dog ranges out, not too far, and gets himself out there both to see/smell yotes, to entice them in just by his being there, and having the knowledge to know when to run back to you, or at least have the recall to come when you signal. I don't think (but this is coming from inexperienced me) that the type of prey around would matter to the yotes if they see another canine in their territory. Enlighten me if I'm wrong!
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I do think a medium sized dog is the best. Too big and you might intimidate the yote..but then again my dog isn't intimidated by anything bigger than she. Color, who cares? The few times we've taken our pit with she's been clueless, the yotes saw her though and came right in, and she's blue.

If the yotes hang out of range, I feel like the dog should go back out and try a little more. And if push came to shove I'd like the dog to stop a yote that might have been hit with a bad shot. But like another guy said, I might be dreaming on all this. I have never hunted with anyone else's dog, and I could be totally wrong in my thoughts. I AM a blonde you know
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This is interesting for sure.

Maybe too simply put, but IMO,

I look at a decoy dog are mostly "Bait". Something for the coyote to see and come in after.

Tolling dogs actually cast out and look for coyotes and bring them back for the shooter to shoot.

Either can act as a retriever, use their nose to find a wounded or dead coyote, whether they will or not is up to them.

I know Jack Russels are very popular because of their small size and attitude for decoy dogs.

A coyote or two can put the hurt on a dog or kill it if the dog is too small. I have an Airedale, and I have her sit next to me during the hunt. I believe that early in the season you will loose/scare off more coyotes with a larger/tolling dog. Around here coyotes "usually" go about 25-30 pounds.
 
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Originally Posted By: Devin69What is a Decoy dog and what are his duties?
What is expected of him.
Is he to go get the coyotes or just sit by the caller and recover a wounded coyote?
What should the range on the dog be? If any?
How big should the dog be? Big small or med? Or does it matter?
Should the dog be a certian color?
1,2, or more dogs? Or does it matter
Does the terrain or cover play into what kind of dog you use or need?
This really could be a good discussion but too many of they guys that get on here wear their feelings on the shoulders and get thier panties all wadded up.
This forum has not had a good discussion for a long,long time. If it is true that many could learn then lets hear from all you guys that know how to do it and have seen a True Decoy dog work.
Originally Posted By: Devin69Ok, great. I am not picking on you and thank you for your input, but let me dig a little deeper.
If a coyote follows a dog back ( which I have seen a million times) does that make him a decoy dog?
What is expected of the dog if the coyote hangs up out of range?
Does the part of the country you live in determine how big and color?
Does the kind of livestock in your area play into what kind of dog you need? Or should I say the type of food the coyote is preying on determine what kind of dog you will be using?
Does the dog need any kind of nose? cold or hot nose? Or is a dog that does more hunting by sight do better?
Yes I can go on and on and I will keep it up if we get more people to play this decoy dog game.

I take a quick stab at it.

I expect my dogs to be jack of all trades type dogs. They better go and get after coyotes and not just sit next to me or be off dicking around not paying attention.

The dogs range should be according to the terrain I'm hunting. I'd like to keep him in view but that's not always realistic. With the technology available today I have let the range of my dogs expand. GPS and "Tone" features on collars help me keep an eye on the dog and recall him if I need to.

I want a dog that is about 40-60#'s and in shape. I don't think size has as much to do with it as drive and exp.

Color makes no difference to me. I've had black, brindle and yellow and they all have worked. Black shows up well in the snow but most of my decoying is done during denning season and yellow shows up good against green grass. So.....

During fur season I only run 1 dog. During denning season I run 2 decoy dogs and 2 terriers.

I hunt all types of terrain and cover and expect my dogs to also. I will say it is easier to train a dog in open cover where you can see how the coyotes respond than in thick cover but my dogs better function in all types.

For coyotes that hang up and bugger I want my dogs to beat feet to them and try to change the coyotes mind. That's the job of a decoy dog. Really don't need them when the coyotes just come in like they are on a string.

Livestock is livestock. I expect all my dogs to be stock broke and able to work with livestock present. I better not catch them chasing any stock. Period.

As for nose... I don't need a cold nosed lion dog to decoy coyotes. But the dog better be able to be put on a hot track and follow it up and hopefully work it back. I also expect my dogs to find and hold wounded coyotes even if they were not there when the coyote was shot. I also want a dog that has enough nose to backtrack coyotes to the den. I also use all my decoy dogs for coon and bobcats.

Above all I want an intelligent dog that can walk the fine line between no aggression and too much aggression. I want them obiedient and easy to load and handle. I want a dog I can live with around the home and on the road in motels and bunkhouses.

That's a start. I think that what a true working decoy dog does has such a wide job description that it is difficult to put in to type. I use all my dogs for so much more than tradtional decoy work that they are more like fur dogs than true decoy dogs. They do decoy coyotes very well but, I also use them for tree game, as catch dogs, to track wounded game, to track drags, to bird hunt with, and a bunch of other things. Versatility is the key for me. In the end they better help put fur in the truck and coyotes on the ground or they will be heading off down that long lonely road.

Tim
 
I am training my pair to do a few things. I dont want them sitting in my lap but ranging out depending on the terrain to two or three hundred yards. I want them to see and smell a coyote. I dont care if they are on the mtn behind me or out in front, as long as a coyote can see them. To me one aspect of a decoy dog is to act as a decoy, meaning get the coyotes eyes off of me and my partners and get them watching that dog/dogs. This makes making adjustments for the shot alot easier when the coyotes arnt staring at you. A toll dog is like a fishing pole cast, out and back, out and back, until a dog brings along a coyote closer to the hunter. I expect them to chase and hold a hurt coyote.

I expect more from my dogs since I use them for traplines also. Basically aside from "Decoy" work, I want dogs that I can take into the field with me for any task and that they will help more then they hinder. I also expect them to act like dogs that when other people see them they are impressed with both their skills and behavior. Im not their yet, be we work on it several times a week, and were slowly moving in that direction.
 
Originally Posted By: Devin69What is a Decoy dog and what are his duties?
What is expected of him.
Is he to go get the coyotes or just sit by the caller and recover a wounded coyote?
What should the range on the dog be? If any?
How big should the dog be? Big small or med? Or does it matter?
Should the dog be a certian color?
1,2, or more dogs? Or does it matter
Does the terrain or cover play into what kind of dog you use or need?
This really could be a good discussion but too many of they guys that get on here wear their feelings on the shoulders and get thier panties all wadded up.
This forum has not had a good discussion for a long,long time. If it is true that many could learn then lets hear from all you guys that know how to do it and have seen a True Decoy dog work.

This topic is of great interest to me, being as I've got a pup from Dasher's latest litter and he's growing fast. Even got a coyote with him on stand last month. This pup is my 1st swim in the pool, so my answers reflect the ramblings of a newbie. But one who has put some thought into this dog before taking on the responsibility of owning him...

My idea of a 'decoy dog' is a dog that will provide a 'focus' for the approaching coyote to concentrate on. Trailing & baying up a wounded coyote would be a bonus. But mostly, I just want to have a canine friend to bring along that will enhance the already exciting experience of coyote calling. Far as I know, not many guys here in the NE have tried it, so why not me?

Given the terrain I usually hunt, I want my dog to stay relatively close to me (< 200yds). Certainly within eyesight, where I can possibly control the situation via 'tone' on the Tritronics, or a rifle shot to end the game entirely. I sure don't want my dog going off into the woods to be 'sacked' by a pack of big eastern coyotes. If they are howling back in the woods, I'll try to call them to where they can see my dog & hope the "cat & mouse" game commences from there. I'm still not even CLOSE to learning how my pup is going to react to that situation, so can't comment further than that...

Our adult coyotes here average 40 lbs +, so I want my dog to be at least that big. Athleticly built (quick & agile) to keep out of trouble, and sensible enough to not get in trouble being too 'gritty'. Not cowardly by any means, but at the same time, I'm not looking to 'game test' my decoy dog on a wild coyote.

Specific color wasn't a priority, but my red pup will stand out REAL well on a blanket of snow later this season.

I can't say how, or even if our larger eastern coyotes will respond to a 50-55 lb. cur, but so far as a scrawny pup, he's 1 for 1...
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That big female seen him plain as day and focused intently on him, circling to the wind where I put a bullet in her. That was toooooo cool!

I don't want my dog fighting with, or dispatching, wounded coyotes if I have ANY chance to intervene myself! Heck, I've got a rifle for goodness sake, WHY would I choose to put my dog directly in harms way & get him potentially chewed up? I could more easily finish off a cripple with another gunshot & be done with it. Not interested in a 'game test' for my dog. If I wanted to watch a dogfight, I'd own another pitbulldog.
Furthermore, I sure don't want to have to be doctoring up my dog, or incur the expense of vetrinary care. I realize that 'wrecks' are gonna happen with a hunting dog, but I'm surely not wanting to get my dog all bit up just so I can brag about him 'finishing'. I'd rather 'finish' what I started & keep my dog in one piece, so we both continue to enjoy the experience!

Again, I don't know of many guys here in the NE who use 'decoy' dogs, so me & Pokey are gonna have to figure out what works & what don't by ourselves. Bottom line is that I want to keep it FUN and productive for both of us! If my dog is scaring off coyotes that I could have shot, then Pokey is gonna be waiting for daddy back at the house. Hope that don't happen though...

looking forward to the continuation of this discussion!
 
Originally Posted By: knockemdownI don't want my dog fighting with, or dispatching, wounded coyotes if I have ANY chance to intervene myself! Heck, I've got a rifle for goodness sake, WHY would I choose to put my dog directly in harms way & get him potentially chewed up? I could more easily finish off a cripple with another gunshot & be done with it. Not interested in a 'game test' for my dog. If I wanted to watch a dogfight, I'd own another pitbulldog.
Furthermore, I sure don't want to have to be doctoring up my dog, or incur the expense of vetrinary care. I realize that 'wrecks' are gonna happen with a hunting dog, but I'm surely not wanting to get my dog all bit up just so I can brag about him 'finishing'. I'd rather 'finish' what I started & keep my dog in one piece, so we both continue to enjoy the experience!

Kinda what I was thinking just didn't have the words to spit it out. I see a decoy dog more as the finesse of the partnership. Not the rowdy rock em sock em kind of dog that will tackle anything. Not really saying this right AGAIN but hopefully you can see what I'm trying to get out. I see it as it's their job to bring the yote in, yours to finish it off. If you do happen to make a bad shot, in most cases unless you're night calling, you can still see to dispatch it.
 
Let me start out by saying I could write all I know about decoying or tolling on the back of a postage stamp. The question was asked in a post about if the size of the dog mattered. A pair of coyotes challenged the 200 plus lbs. mastiff in my avatar at the ranch in south Texas. The yotes quickly discovered the error of their decision. Obliviously I am not advocating the use of a mastiff as decoy dog. However, considering these yotes were not intimidated at all by my mastiff, I would think an 80 – 90 lbs. cur or cat would work fine. Again, this is based on my very limited knowledge about decoy dogs.
 
All I can speak of is what I want or need in a dog, from what I do for a living. Excuse my rambling, as I'm just throwing this off the top of my head, in no specific order or such.

There really isn't too many right or wrong answers on this topic. One could take their wife's prized miniature poodle or yappy silky terrier and use them as a decoy dog. The essence is a dog that will take the focus off of the caller and put it on the dog. It could be a yappy lapdog that is picked up from the pound or a 90+ lb catahoula that one uses. It really doesn't matter, as long as it helps put fur on the ground. That being said, here is what I look for:

I prefer a dog that is tall enough to see over the grass in a variety of calling terrain, but not so big as to intimidate a coyote. I like that 45lb range with good legs, light on their feet, grit, super friendly personality, and most importantly, intelligence.

Color really doesn't mean much to me, but I do prefer a short coat, based on where I live and the temps. I don't know if a coyote looks at a dog as a "dog" or another coyote...and actually don't care. I've called a bunch of areas that I can guarantee the coyotes have never seen a farm dog before. I've witnessed their interaction and behavior with other coyotes and dogs, and it's pretty much the same behavior. A dog needs to have that aggressive/passive behavior to effectively play the cat/mouse game needed. On at least 6 occasions, I've had my dogs kick up a jackrabbit while walking to a stand. Off they go, only to beep them back and have a coyote in tow. Each time, the coyote was more curious than anything, but died still the same, without a single call being blown.

I prefer a dog that works close, well within gun range. Our average shot coyote is 40-50 yards. I want my dog within that range, unless casted out by command. We call for both coyotes and bobcat and I don't want a dog that will scare off a prized cat. A dog must sit tight and not engage until given the queue, either gunshot or voice command. If a coyote is coming into the call, I absolutely do not want the dog to engage, but if he's heading out, I expect him to go get him and attempt to work him back. When calling, everyone on stand works as a team. I expect a dog to be fully alert on stand and watching for game. I have no patience for slackers on stand...including dogs.
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I don't need a cold nose on a dog, but a hotnose for running a track, especially baying up wounded game. I prefer a silent runner, but once bayed, expect a good mouth to alert to their location. I want a dog to stay on bay until we arrive or give the command to come back. When it comes to stopping runners, I expect a dog to fully engage and hold a coyote. The last thing I want to do is walk miles after a wounded coyote...especially at night.

I don't want a dog that has too much grit. I've had coyotes bug out at the sight of a dog charging after them, while they were coming into the call. That being said, I don't want a sissy dog either. If they must fight, I want them experienced enough to do it right and not get bit up. They need to be able to handle their own if engaged by multiple coyotes. I've watched my dogs handle upward to 7 coyotes trying to catch them. They need to be smart enough to know when to push a coyote and when to pull back and let the gun take over.

I prefer to run 1 dog most of the time and 2 during the spring or breeding season. I prefer to run 2 dogs at night, as well, due to rough bay-ups and not getting suckered by a partnering coyote in the dark. Plus, I hate walking miles after a coyote that bays, then bolts when we approach with the headlamp, only to be bayed up again in 1/2 mile more.

Also, I want a dog to be a true hunting companion. If we are hunting coyotes, bobcat, badger, raccoons, hogs, quail, dove, etc... Of course, they must be stock proof and flat ignore cattle, horses, sheep, goats, chickens, etc...

Gunner gets the most exposure of my dogs, as he is what I use with most my clients. He works out well for guiding hunters. He gets along with everyone, has great truck manners, superb stand discipline, stays out of the way of the gun, doesn't spook coyotes anytime of the year, tolls when needed, and recovers game very well. He does very well for what I do for a living. No dog is perfect, just as no man is. You find its strengths and leverage them to your advantage to put more fur on the back of the hunting rig. I do have and use other dogs, based on what I need at the time.

Dixie, my jagd/cur cross that I bought from Devin, tolls very well for her young age. She's a bit too aggressive and has scared off her share of coyotes, but I think I can pull that back with training and maturity. I only use her for springtime and/or breeding season and sometimes as a helper dog on nighttime recovery. With time, she will be one heck of a good dog, doing everything I have Gunner doing and then some.

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Mattie is my pitbull. I don't consider her a decoy dog, nor label her it. She was purchased as a pup for the sole purpose of being a brood biitch. But, I have found that she makes one heck of a good nighttime recovery dog, especially for runners. I use her at night, when I have room in the hunting rig.

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Everyone had different ideas and tastes, based off of their expectations and the way that they hunt. These are my ideas on what works for me and my hunting/calling style.


Great topic man!

Tony
 
Decoy = a trained bird or other animal used to entice game into a trap or within gunshot.

Tolling = to lure or decoy (game) by arousing curiosity.

I have no dog
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in this topic as I do not use a dog while hunting but would love to get as much info as possible because i think it would work great were I hunt.
 
Here are my two dogs with a recent coyote that they decoyed.
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb475/jackray76/000_1064.jpg

The Catahoula Cur is 4 years old and sits right next to me until she sees a coyote then she will chase it until I beep her or the coyote chases her, then she will return to me as long as the coyote follows. If the coyote stops she stops if it runs away she chases until its out of sight or it turns and chases her at which point she once again returns to me. The dogs only real fault is she seems ignorant of baying a wounded coyote. She will find them every time but then walk away from them. The Airedale in the picture is only 10 months old. It hunts out away from me as far as a couple of hundred yards. It has followed the Cathoula's lead and decoyed coyotes back to me three times. I haven't tried her solo yet. My dogs aren't perfect but they work amazingly well for me here in the brush and hills of Southern Missouri. Duane helped me several years ago when I was a complete stranger who approached him on another board and I understand his passion for this unique way of hunting and the time he has put in to try and perfect it. No insult to Tony, who deserves a lot of respect for making this sport his livelyhood. When I have less job obligations and more kennel room I'm seriously considering ponying up the cash and getting a Duane started dog. Remember just one mans opinions your mileage may vary as they say!

Jack in Missouri
 
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