Shotgun shell selection: more shot or more fps?

P

Partagas

New member
I am limited to 2 3/4 with the gun I am using but think the question applies all the way up to the 3 1/2 in shells.

When comparing #4 buck I can get in federal for example a shell that has 34 pellets but is going 1250 fps, a shell that has 27 pellets but is going 1325 fps.

It may not matter and you go with which patterns the best or gets more pellets on the paper. Just curious if they are close to the same or the edge goes to the slower shell getting a few more in the paper but the other arrives with more energy?

What say you?

I have read teh entire shotgun patterning thread and have contributed as well. I am also thinking of trying Remington's HD home defense BB loads as well.
 
I would say extra shot...same prinicple as shooting trap. More projectiles out there possible, the better. Coyotes aren't moving incredibly fast, so the shot speed shouldn't matter much.
 
Pattern both loads and see which one works best for you. Exta shot isn't worth anything if it's not on the target and fringe hits with one pellet aren't going to stop a coyote.

AWS
 
Originally Posted By: AWSPattern both loads and see which one works best for you. Exta shot isn't worth anything if it's not on the target and fringe hits with one pellet aren't going to stop a coyote.

AWS

There's a winner!
 
Lighter loads even though they are somewhat faster will produce less recoil also if the lighter load has more cushioning or heavier constructed wad will produce a better pattern. Buckshot is a real crapshoot and patterning is a must. There is a sticky on shotguns at the top of the firearms forum, it's a good read.

AWS
 
This is a subject that I have given a lot of thought to during the off season. For whatever reason, when we pick up a shotgun our brains immediately switch to bird hunting mode where more pellets is almost always prefered. The problem is coyotes are not birds... and they dont crumple into a heap of broken bones when hit with a handfull of BB shot travelling at +/-1000fps. The shot simply will not penetrate sufficiently to break a coyote down dependably. After a few years of less that satisfactory performance from commercially availble BB and T shot, I started doing my own autopsies on coyotes I recovered(heavy northeast coyotes, inside 50yds on bait) and confirmed my suspicions.... hair, heavy bone, and shot angle all contributed to poor penetration. More penetration means more on target energy. This can be accomplished by increasing the individual pellet size and/or increasing the velocity. I sat down and calculated the muzzle energy of various commercially available loads in BB, T and 4B using the published velocites (1150-1300fps). The highest energy came from a 2.75" #4B. I will try to find the exact figures when I get home. Unfortunatley I cant use buckshot locally. So after speaking with a few reloaders and custom ammo manufactures, I ultimately settled on a custom load (3"-Fshot)that should deliver more energy (based on the manufacturers velocity 1600fps)and more pellets (37) than the best performing #4B and nearly twice the energy of the commercial T-shot that has become so popular. I am heading to the range tomorrow and hopefully will have a report to follow. I will keep you all posted.

MA_bwhntr
 
Here are my calculations. I was never that good with math so if anyone wants to check my math, I wont be offended. I cant find my calculations for BB shot...

Shell - Caliber - Pellet Count - Grain - Velocity - Energy (ft/# per pellet)

3" DeadCoyote - .20 - 50 - 14.3 - 1300 - 56.65
3.5" DeadCoyote - .20 - 54 - 14.3 - 1350 - 57.85
3" Rem#4B - .24 - 41 - 20.5 - 1225 - 68.29
2.75" Rem#4B - .24 - 27 - 20.5 - 1325 - 79.89
3" Custom F - .22 - 35 - 16.0 - 1600 - 90.93
(I rechecked the box of F shot and the reported velocity is 1625, I didnt adjust my figures)
 
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You do realize that you can not transfer more energy to the target, than is transferred to your shoulder.

It will be interesting to see the patterns of the high velocity T-Buck. It is not steel shot is it?
John
 
Ha! I have shot enought 1 7/8 oz turkey loads to know that all too well. These are a bit less than 1.5 oz.... I think I will be alright.
 
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The Third Law of Newton reference actually has a double meaning. Whereas the energies you have calculated are a part of the equation, they are not the whole story; especially with shotgun pellets. In my opinion, the key to lethality in shotgunning is a synergy of enough pellets on target with enough energy to reach the vitals. If the high velocity opens up your pattern, you will be worse off.

We look forward to seeing your pattern test.
John
 
No doubt, if I cant get them to hold a pattern at 40-50 yards then they are no good. I have a few chokes to try, I am keeping my fingers crossed. What is the consensus for minimum number of hits?
I just put my camera in my shooting bag, so I will have some photos to share before the weekend is over.
 
I have a 6" Plexiglas circle cutout. I like to move it around the pattern board and count the number of places within the 30" central pattern that the circle will fit without containing at least two hits with T or 4B. I am at my maximum range when I can count more than two places that do not intersect. I also shoot the same pattern at least three times. You will be amazed at the shot to shot variation. I also tend to pass on loads that will not regulate consistently. Good luck.
John
 
Well... that was a disappointment to say the least!!!
Three different shotguns (Franchi I12, Benelli SBE, Mossberg 500)and a combined total of 8 different choke combinations and I could not get more than 5 pellets in a 12inch circle at 40yds.... even after bringing it in to 25 yards I was still only averaging 6-7 pellets!!! It was just plain aweful.... too embarassing to break out the camera.
I am still convinced that I need more energy per pellet but it is pretty obvious that velocity alone is not going to be the answer. Perhaps some buffered, nickel plated F-shot at a more modest velocity will get me some added energy without blowing up my patterns. In the mean time.... does anyone want to by a box of high velocity F shot?????
 
As someone that has fired thousands of rounds at pattern boards; super high velocity lead loads a real bugger to pattern and regulate consistently. Have you tried the heavier than lead types of shot?
John
 
Try some loads that have more pellets in them. With heavier than lead pellets, sizes B, BB and T are deep penetraters and they pattern pretty good.
IMG_0316.jpg

The Remington Wingmaster HD BB load had 25 less pellets in it than the Federal Premium 1-7/8 oz copper coated lead BB load. The Rem HD load with less pellets in it put twice as many pellets in a 12" circle at 40 yards than the Federal copper coated lead load did.

Having more energy per pellet is not what I look for in a good coyote load. As long as the pellets are big enough to penetrate deep enough, I want more pellets.

I would rather hit the coyote with 6 to 8 pellets than hit them with 1 or 2 pellets.
 
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