Replace The Income Tax

Stu Farish

Director / Webmaster
Staff member
With a sales tax. At least, that's what a bunch are trying to do. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Replace The Tax

Effort to dump income tax gains steam
Supporters look to have 100 House co-sponsors by July 4

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Posted: March 5, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Ron Strom
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

An effort to do away with federal income tax and replace it with a national consumption tax is gaining steam, as activists strive to get at least 100 members of the House of Representatives on board by Independence Day.

"We think we'll be at 100 co-sponsors by July 4," Tom Wright, executive director of Americans for Fair Taxation, told WND.

Wright noted the House bill, H.R. 25, added its latest co-sponsor this week – Republican Rep. Barbara Cubin of Wyoming – bringing the total to 44.

"We're working with our grass-roots people across the country" to get to the goal, Wright said. H.R. 25, the Fair Tax Act, is sponsored by Rep. John Linder, R-Ga., who has sponsored similar legislation for the last several years. The latest version of the bill was introduced Jan. 7, 2003.

"The current federal income tax system is broken. Patching up the existing code is pointless. It's time for a fresh approach, a fair approach. It's time for the FairTax," says the group's website.

"From its humble beginnings, the income tax has grown like a cancer by taxing our hard work and discouraging savings and investment."

H.R. 25 would eliminate the federal income tax and replace it with a 23 percent consumption tax paid by the end user. That means business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services would not be taxed. The organization estimates consumer prices will drop by an estimated 20-30 percent as a result of the change.

The group's website describes how the bill's rebate function works. It assures that those living in poverty would not pay any tax.

"Under the FairTax, no American will pay taxes on necessities. The rebate will be equivalent to the tax paid on essential goods and services. The rebate will be mailed before the tax is actually paid [and] will be paid in equal installments at the beginning of the month. The size of the monthly rebate will be determined by the federal poverty level for a particular household size."

Wright touted the support of the American Farm Bureau. The organization has been educating its membership on the bill, and many state chapters have given the bill legislative priority.

Dumping the income tax has become a campaign issue in many political races this year, Wright says.

"All over Texas, House candidates are supporting it," he said, mentioning races in other states as well.

Wright noted the bill's cause is helped every time Social Security reform is discussed, since, under the plan, the entitlement program would be supported by the consumption tax instead of what he calls the "regressive" Social Security tax.

Americans for Fair Taxation says the first year the plan goes into effect, revenue to the federal government would remain the same. From there, the group claims, revenue will grow due to increased economic activity.

H.R. 25 is pending in the House Ways and Means Committee and has not had a hearing. Once the sponsorship level grows to 100, however, Wright thinks Chairman Bill Thomas, R-Calif., will take action on the bill.

The bill's Senate version is S.1493, sponsored by Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., which was introduced in July.

WND columnist Neal Boortz is a supporter of the plan. In an August column, he addressed the issue of why the idea hasn't been enacted already.

"And just why hasn't it passed?" he wrote. "Because the idea is so bold that many politicians, while personally praising the concept, just assume it can't pass.

"It can pass, my friends. It can pass if the people of America learn the details and then let their elected officials know that they want some action."
 
It sure sounds good, however, retired folks, people who have only the monthly check to live on, would be tax on purchased items. This would increase their already over burdened cost of living. An important caveat is to remember one very important thing. The government has a habit of putting their hands into various programs and taking money from it. This why the social security system has problems. The government takes what it wants, when it wants, then squanders it leaving a program in dire straits.
We should not shoot from the hip without drawing the gun from the holster on this one.

Frankie B.
 
I don't know how the present system has lasted as long as it has. They say 37% pay no taxes at all actually get back thousands more than they pay in. It probably takes 60% to equal it out. I'm not against helping the poor but there's millions playing the system. Forbes was thinking 17% I guess 23% might leave some for the national debt.
 
trek,its a damn rip off.1/2 of the people pay over 96% of the tax burden.And yes,those people making around 18,000 a year with a kid get earned income credit.They get a refund of roughly 2 to 4 thousand more than what they paid in.

Personally I think it will take an act of God to get our money back from DC.Thats where the root of there power lies.
I saw a tax collector on O'Reilly last night talking about how he enjoyed intemidating people.He said it made his job fun.This SOB needs to be dipped in acid.
 
This Idea has been floating around for years. The form of it I saw several years ago did not tax neccesities such as food, medical care etc. It placed a strait tax on other products. This way it would not effect our poor unless they were buying a new plasma TV. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif If americans really had a clue on how much we really pay in taxes they would have a coranary. By the time the average product reaches the shelves in this country it has about a 30% mark up due to various taxes. Shipping taxes, stocking taxes, etc. We pay income tax and sales tax. in reality probably 50% of every dollar we earn is spent on taxes. At least with a strait sales tax I can choose whether I wan't to spend an extra 23% for an Item or save that money. If I save it today I have to pay taxes on any income I make from It. This does not encourage saving, or investing money. If people are encouraged to invest it gives the buisnesses in this country capital to expand and create jobs. And on anouther note it would put the IRS out of buisness saving billions of tax payers dollars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I think this is a win/win situation for everyone.

Scott
 
What's gona happen to all those hard working lawyers that are employed by the IRS.What about all the tons of forms they have printed every year. Where are all those IRS intimadators going to work now, who are they going to shake down in the future.And what about all those old folks on fixed incomes,they live in fear of that IRS audit always making sure Uncle Sam got more than he deserved so they'd know they'd still have a roof over there heads. Whats that going to do to there fear, what are they to replace it with.
 
Stu said :
With a sales tax. At least, that's what a bunch are trying to do. Sounds like a good idea to me.
Me too! You know, when the Capital One Card commercial asks, "What's in your wallet?" I always shout, "The #$&^@ IRS".
I'm all for building a new chicken coop as long as it deals with keepin' the thievin' varmits (Congress) from finding a way into it. Then maybe we can have something besides feather sandwichs for breakfast!
 
An income tax wouldn't be that bad, if it was a flat rate, say 10%.

If you make 1 million a year, you pay 100,000 in taxes, PERIOD.

If you make 10,000 you pay 1,000 PERIOD.

That's fair, but nobody wants to talk about fair.
 
Any kind of Income Tax is a bad idea.The Supreme Court ( around 1920) defined income as monies made off investment, not from compensation from ones labor.( How that has changed)Also only U.S. citizens,not state citezens had to pay it( Of course when we take that social security number we become U.S. citizens)The other thing , how many people don't pay. A sales tax nobody can escape.It would be much easier to protest higher sales taxes( you know of course they'll raise a sales tax when they need more money, but you'll have your money in hand,and use it , or not, when prices go to high.
 
course they'll raise a sales tax when they need more money, but you'll have your money in hand,and use it , or not, when prices go to high.
They do that anyway. But, if money is worthless if you can't or won't spend it. If I have a barn full of money and don't want to spend it because the sales tax is too high, I might as well not have any.
 
Perosnally, I'd take a flat tax over our Marxist-based progressive tax any day.

But I'd rather have a sales tax than either. The reason is simple:

It's a matter of privacy. With any form on income tax, we are forced to sit down and provide an accounting to the govt of exactly what our income was to the year. I personally think that it's none of their damned business.

Sales tax has the advantages of being fair (everyone pays the same), extracting taxes from the underground economy (illegal drugs, prostitution, unreported income of any sort), and simple. You pay at the checkout at. No longer would we have to comply with millions of lines of tax law, hoping that we didn't mess up somewhere, or employ accounting firms and so on.

The key is that a sales tax would have to absolutely, unquestionably replace the income tax. It would have to be written explicitly so that the feds are flat out banned from having both. That's the biggest worry I have over it, is that we would switch but later on the greedy bastards would then crank up an income tax again & we'd end up paying both.
 
Sales tax has the advantages of being fair (everyone pays the same), extracting taxes from the underground economy (illegal drugs, prostitution, unreported income of any sort), and simple.
How would that work exactly? Would drug dealers and hookers be charging sales tax? Or are you just saying that the money they spend will be taxed?

You might start getting a lot of "black market" grocery stores and such.

Would sales tax be expanded to include items that are currently except from sales tax, like food, gas (it has its' own set of asscoiated taxes) and probably a few other things I;m forgetting?
 
I'm saying that the money they spend would be taxed. While not perfect, it would extract federal taxes from people who right now don't pay any, as they're hiding illegal income.

Not all states exempt food and drugs. TN, for example, you pay sales tax on everything from condoms to cars. Some states do.

My understanding of the plan being pushed is that you'd pay sales tax on everything, but there would be a standard amount per person calculated on necessities such as food, and that quarterly evryone would actually get a rebate check to remiburse them for that amount. The idea being that no one, whether poor, wealthy or retired on a fixed income, would actually pay taxes on a core amount regarded as typical to live.

The devil is always in the details, if the notion interests you it may be worthwhile to read what these people are proposing and look for problems that need addressing. I haven't yet, can just comment on the overall picture.
 
It might work. In Texas, the state sales tax is collected by the businesses and they are responsible for paying it into the state. If there was a federal sales tax, the businesses would have to increase their paperwork and responsibility in keeping up with it I would think. I expect that they would increase their prices to pay for their time and inconvenience.

If a federal sales tax would lower my overall tax burden because fewer people would be able to hide, then I could see being for it. If, however, my tax burden stays about the same, I just have it taken from me differently than I did, I can't see the point. Other than that now the Feds have more money than they did, because my tax burden didn't go down, but they are collecting from people they never collected from before.

It would also seem that the tax burden would fluxuate wildly based on the price of goods and services (the economy).

I could start of paying 30 cents (10%) sales tax on $3 gallon of milk. If mad cow disease wiped out a few dairys and the milk went to $6/gallon my tax burden just doubled.

Inflation would be extremely important. Not only would buying power be reduced due to inflation, but it would also be reduced to the associated cost of taxes.

Just thinking out loud a little. Still thinking on it some.
 
I still say the reason the Liberals want our guns is because they fear civil uprising and revolution. The folks in this country don't have the balls for a tax revolt.
 
I don't like our present taxing system either.

I can't imagine how may jobs would be lost if a flat tax or sales tax were implamented. Imagine shutting down all the H&R Blocks and other tax preparers, Tax attorneys, most of the IRS, and God only knows how many other jobs related to unfair taxing would be lost. The sittig president would really get an earful from the people who are dependant upon these jobs that the gov't provided for them. Unfair as the tax system is, I don't this happenning. I have been wrong before. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The national sales tax sounds great until I think about it awhile. The key will be keeping it flat. Same amount of tax on everything, but that will never happen. Ahhhhh yes I can see it now. A whole new system of social architecture run from the halls of congress. They'll put a big sales tax on "bad" stuff like guns and beer, and a little sales tax on "good stuff" like a pair of crutches or a loaf of bread. All the lobbyists can gather and scurry about trying to influence whether their product gets on the "good" lists or "bad" lists. Congress can hold debates over how to properly manipulate our buying habits in great detail to help us stay on the strait and narrow. Then will come the income redistribution. An expensive house or car or a large stock purchase will be taxed massively to pay for give-aways, while the cheap stuff is taxed little or none. Imagine giving Washington the ability to control what we pay for everything right down to a pack of gum!! If it's not kept flat (and it won't be) it will just take us out of the frying pan into the fire.
 
I think your probably right on target weedwacker.
I mean c'mon the govenment spends 70 cents of every dollar it steals just to figure out 'how' to redistribute it. They only know one thing 'spend spend spend'. They are the most creative bunch of ... But giving others our stolen tax money and labeling it 'earned income tax credit' what a joke. They don't pay a single dime in taxes and get $4,000.00 back. I would like to say more but that is for a different thread. I see it now they will have a tax free duty card to flash at the registers so they don't pay the sales tax (this of course would be the same deal for the elitists). The least the loafers could do is send me and the rest of you a birthday card once a year thanking our stupid butts for carrying their load year after year since they won't.
 
We have already tried the income tax,it grows larger every year.It is so compicated you need lawyers to define an exsemption,an audit can take years to prove your inocent, but usualy they'll settle for a few cents on the dollar ( shake down)you have to save every reciept to do your taxes, then file them away for years just in case they decide to take you on.You are guilty untill proven inocent in there courts.( when your so bold as to take it to court, if you do your own taxes, it's you, with no lawyer vs. at least 2 IRS lawyers,facing a federal judge who tries to convince you he works, not for the IRS , but you.( this is where they usualy stick it to you for being so bold as to take them on.) This system is broke, it is and has always been against all our founders warned us of.Sales tax yes!!.
 
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