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#1624398 - 06/26/10 07:51 PM Electric Collars and Corrections
yoteslayer0927 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/23/08
Posts: 232
Loc: Ohio
I felt like I may have been hijacking Podunk's thread so I'm starting this new topic (sorry podunk').....

I would like to comment on what Coloradobob wrote about electric collars often times being misused.

One of the biggest problems I saw with electric collar use was that many "trainers" felt that the e-collar was a "training program" and rightfully so. About 20 years ago Tritronics published a retriever training book (in cooperation with 3 very good dog trainers)that used the e-collar extensively to "teach" the dog many NEW things. A few dogs did OK but soft dogs just couldn't handle that much pressure and high dogs would get burnt all time until they became "clamers" and just got to the point they were afraid to work.

My advice especially to "new" dog trainers is to remember that an e-collar is simply a training tool not a complete "program" that we use to train dogs. It is no different than a choke collar, a checkcord, a whistle or a heeling stick. You still HAVE to teach the dog new commands before you start enforcing them with much pressure.....An e-collar is nothing more than a REALLY long check cord....a REALLY long rolled up newspaper....etc.

When I train my dogs I give VERY few corrections for a dog making a mistake....If they are out there working they are going to make them....I use attrition instead....On the other hand I "get after" dogs quite readily if I think their mistakes are caused by a lack of effort or just pure laziness.

Just my opinion.....

Brian


Edited by yoteslayer0927 (06/26/10 07:52 PM)
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#1624412 - 06/26/10 08:29 PM Re: Electric Collars and Corrections [Re: yoteslayer0927]
coloradobob Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 394
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Brian, I wasn't suggesting completly training with an e-collar just suggesting that there is a proper way to use them, hence the video. I still train the old fashioned way, always have and probably always will. Just turning a collar up on the highest level and zapping your buddy when a he does something wrong is the wrong approach. Teaching a dog that it has the power to shut the power off or avoid correction alltogether was the point I was trying to make. Instead of laying a dog out flat with a jolt at the highest level a tick at the lowest level that the dog acknowledges works fine once the dog has learned that it can shut off the power. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. Were the dog to continue doing something undesireable than obviously more stimulation would be necessary. But in all cases the dog needs to know that it is the one that has the power to shut the collar down, again the video. The video stresses that point. My buddy Murphy in the avatar has had the collar on him for correction twice in his entire life but he was taught that he had the power to shut it down by complying with a command. The collar in a nutshell is an extension of youself. It shows the dog that distance doesn't equal defiance. I guess that is one of the points I am trying to make. To my mind obedience training and a long check cord are and will always be my preferred method of training.
RE: my response to "Puppy Question."
Soft dogs are a whole nuther discussion. Personally when picking a pup a soft dog would not come home with me. I always look for the pup that will climb over every other pup in the pen trying to be the first one to get to me. JMO
Have a nice evening.

John aka coloradobob


Edited by coloradobob (06/26/10 08:46 PM)
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Never met a dog I didn't like!

God & Our Founding Fathers giveth ...., Obama taketh away!


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#1624418 - 06/26/10 08:57 PM Re: Electric Collars and Corrections [Re: coloradobob]
yoteslayer0927 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/23/08
Posts: 232
Loc: Ohio
Hi John,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Was not saying your were incorrect. On the contrary, I was simply expanding on an excellent point you were making on podunks' post. Hope I didn't offend you.

An e-collar is only as good as the person holding the transmitter!!

Brian


Edited by yoteslayer0927 (06/26/10 08:58 PM)
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Certified Wildlife Biologist


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#1624433 - 06/26/10 09:20 PM Re: Electric Collars and Corrections [Re: yoteslayer0927]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
Ecollars are a great tool, but just as any tool they need to be used properly. You don't use a chainsaw to cut a steak, or a steakknife to cut down a tree.
For years I didn't have ecollars, and made some dogs that worked for me, a few years ago I got a few ecollars, and still have a few dogs that work for me. They are dam sure not the "end all, save all".But they are a good tool.
I start all my dogs wearing a collar at about 6 months. I use it as much,or as little as I need to, but they are wearing one. To them a collar means "we are working". Even my older dogs wear one when we are decoying. I can't remember the last time my older dogs even got nicked, but when I go to the porch, they push each other to be the first to get collared up.
Not saying my way is right, just the way I do it, I would rather have the collar and not need it, than need it, and its in the box, instead of on the dog.


Edited by Duane@ssu (06/26/10 09:29 PM)
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#1624452 - 06/26/10 09:56 PM Re: Electric Collars and Corrections [Re: Duane@ssu]
yoteslayer0927 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/23/08
Posts: 232
Loc: Ohio
Good point Duane. I don't use an e-collar on a pup until they are 6 or 7 months old unless I have some issue I think dictates it. However, I start putting it on them at about 12-16 weeks, especially when I'm using live birds in training. The pups catch on quick and Ive had some stick their heads thru the collar because they knew birds were coming while I was simply holding it in my hand. Most of my older dogs come off my trailer and readily await the collar because they know they are going to get to work!!!! You simply have to introduce it to them in the right way.

Duane if you have puppies coming towards the deep Southeast send one to me!!!!

Brian
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Certified Wildlife Biologist


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#1624461 - 06/26/10 10:08 PM Re: Electric Collars and Corrections [Re: Duane@ssu]
coloradobob Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 394
Loc: Massachusetts
Hi Brian, no offense taken and none offered. I just wanted to be clear on the point that I was trying to make about there being a right & wrong way to use one. I've seen too many folks using them where the poor dog didn't kow what the heck it was getting zapped for. I think we're all on the same page here.
One of the earliest shocking collars I know of actually had no remote but was set and activated by a stop watch. I'm dating myself here.
A buddy of mine had one. You would take a dog that was trashing on deer, set the amount of time before you wanted it to go off, drive around until you found some deer, activate it and turn the dogs loose. Dumbest thing I ever saw.
I asked him once what would happen if the dog quit the chase after hitting a hot coon track? He didn't have an answer. Like I said dumbest thing I ever saw. Anyone else ever see one of these things?

Have a good night all and stay safe!
_________________________
Never met a dog I didn't like!

God & Our Founding Fathers giveth ...., Obama taketh away!


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#1624551 - 06/27/10 01:21 AM Re: Electric Collars and Corrections [Re: coloradobob]
yfzduner450 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 1584
Loc: West Jordan, Utah
I agree with with all of you guys. My dog wears a collar anytime i'm out, either camping, hiking, scouting, or shootin jacks. He's 2 years old and i've only juiced him about 5 times. I taught him the "come command" with a check chord, so he knows the rules. Now, if he decides not to come, he gets juiced. He can be chasing something and if i see trouble i whistle and it's like he's still on the cord. And i agree with Duane, i'd rather it be on the dog all the time, so when i need it, it's there.
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"Who's smarter, a man that lives life, or one that lives scared?" By Duane@ssu

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