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#1616725 - 06/13/10 02:39 AM Culling dogs......
poser Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 255
Loc: Spring City, Utah
On another site there was a topic....a guy was asking if he should cull his dog for barking in the kennel? I thought this was pretty amazing but im an idiot so here is my question......

What do you cull your dogs for?
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I'm thankfull for being dumb and slow then i don't have to overthink this stuff.

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#1616731 - 06/13/10 03:20 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: poser]
mtcurman Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 4661
Loc: Montana
I heard of a guy who culled all the brindle pups he had! That don't sound right to me. mad
_________________________
Ain't no point getting out of bed, if you ain't livin' the dream...





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#1616804 - 06/13/10 11:07 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: mtcurman]
A Dana Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 78
Loc: BC Canada
I would cull a dog that contnualy barked in the kennel despite my best efforts..as good a reason as any really.


I'll tell you a story.

Friday the family drove a few hours to watch a chukar championship....pro field trial.

there were dogs from all over BC, Canada,and even some big boys from the states.

I was talking with an old timer who came from Vancouver island he was interested in hounds. He ended up being from same town as a friend of mine.

he did not know my friend but knew his dogs by thier constant barking....he lives several blocks away. Said dave was lucky a nieghbour had not poisoned them yet.

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#1617071 - 06/13/10 07:47 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: A Dana]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
All the dogs we have today are a result of hard culling of color,shape and size and a certian job they were required to do. IMO
Alot of guys talk about how good the old time dogs were. Culling is the reason why. IMO They did not just breed and breed a dog, they had to prove themselves before they were worthy of breeding and even then, sometimes they only let a very few pups out to the public, most of them went to guys that would hunt the hide off them and could tell if they were worth breeding a second time.
I don't believe you get super stars every litter you have.
If you hunt hard and cull hard you will come up with something.
Dustballs and I were talking on the phone the other night and the subject came up of a companion/hunting dog.My question is can anyone make a compainion/hunting dog at the same time or should you see if he is worthy of a hunting dog first then become attached to him as a companion dog?
Dustballs and I never did discuss that but maybe someone could shed some light. For me the dog must prove itself before it could become a companion/hunting dog.Otherwise you would be too attached to it to cull it if it didn't make a hunting dog.
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1617105 - 06/13/10 08:36 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Good questions.

I think we can all agree that animals that do not measure up relative to the needs we have should be sterilized (that is most all) and some need to be put down.

The controversy is most likely to center around what we as individuals want an animal(s) to be/do.

Seems okay to me. Different strokes for different folks.
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Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#1617109 - 06/13/10 08:41 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: DoubleCK]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
So are you saying if the dog does not make it as a hunting dog then it will still have a place as a pet?
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1617130 - 06/13/10 09:06 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
Workman Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Manti, UT
I've bit my tongue on this subject for a while, especially when I see alot of folks getting hunting (decoy) dogs as pets and hunting companions. If the dog doesn't make the grade as a hunting dog and its already sleeping at the foot of the bed, its fair to say its not going anywhere. I don't have a problem with folks doing what they want with their own dogs, but when you start seeing litters out of dogs that shouldn't be reproducing and touted as "finished" or "solid" dogs its a shame.

While not everyone has the stomach to cull a dog that needs it, there shouldn't be any question as to the necessity of culling to maintain solid hunting stock. Of course everyone is going to have a different expectation for their dogs, in their situation, but indiscriminate breeding is what leads to dogs that don't make the grade on a more consistent basis than a proven pair that atleast gives the litter an honest shot at making a dog.

Back to the initial question, would I cull a dog for something that trivial, No, especially if I hadn't exhausted every other means of correction. Now if a dog were acting that way and he already had strikes against him for other problems, yeah that may seal the deal.
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#1617139 - 06/13/10 09:16 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Workman]
coloradobob Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 394
Loc: Massachusetts
Culling for barking? Are you kidding me? Sounds like someone should get a cat or maybe a barking collar. Sheese!!
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Never met a dog I didn't like!

God & Our Founding Fathers giveth ...., Obama taketh away!


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#1617169 - 06/13/10 09:50 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: coloradobob]
Dustballs Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 861
Loc: Wyoming
I doubt I would cull a dog for barking in the kennel.

When I got my female Catahoula the intention was to have a decoy dog and a companion. As I was putting the time into her I pretty much had a cull on my hands. But the problem with culling was the two little boys at home. I bought a made dog from Duane and that helped my situation alot and she has turned out pretty good. For what I do my dogs are super stars in my eyes, but might be culls in others.


To answer Devins question IMHO what I want a dog for it will need to hunt first then we can be companions. I didnt like the feeling of having a dog that wasnt performing the way I wanted it knowing I would have to take care of it the rest of its life or tell the boys the dog was gone.

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#1617172 - 06/13/10 09:53 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: coloradobob]
yfzduner450 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 1584
Loc: West Jordan, Utah
This is a very loaded question about companion/hunting dogs. I believe no two people will ever agree on what they want outta a dog or what makes the cut. Their are too many different people in different situations to generalize them. As for me, i would never buy a dog from a "recreational" hunter. For me, i want the best bloodlines in the dog, i can possibly get. That being said, i'm a "recreational" hunter and will never breed any of my dogs. I don't think you can know if the dog "has it" in 1 weekend a month during the winter time. So for me, companion has to come first and then hunter. I will never cull a dog as long as it is a great companion. Although i wouldn't breed it either. Just my 2 cents.

Now for the culling dogs, i have no problem culling a dog for aggression towards people or other dogs if i've done everything i can do. I usually give my dogs 2 strikes, first strike gets them a harsh punishment and strike 2 is game over.
_________________________
"Who's smarter, a man that lives life, or one that lives scared?" By Duane@ssu

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#1617205 - 06/13/10 10:28 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: yfzduner450]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
Originally Posted By: yfzduner450
This is a very loaded question about companion/hunting dogs. I believe no two people will ever agree on what they want outta a dog or what makes the cut. Their are too many different people in different situations to generalize them. As for me, i would never buy a dog from a "recreational" hunter. For me, i want the best bloodlines in the dog, i can possibly get. That being said, i'm a "recreational" hunter and will never breed any of my dogs. I don't think you can know if the dog "has it" in 1 weekend a month during the winter time. So for me, companion has to come first and then hunter. I will never cull a dog as long as it is a great companion. Although i wouldn't breed it either. Just my 2 cents.

Now for the culling dogs, i have no problem culling a dog for aggression towards people or other dogs if i've done everything i can do. I usually give my dogs 2 strikes, first strike gets them a harsh punishment and strike 2 is game over.

No really it is not a loaded question at all. I was not asking to prove your dog to anyone. You know if the dog is a cull and if it is working for you then it is not a cull to you.
Dustballs was very honest and said the pup he got was not turning out as he had hoped. That is a tough situation for him because his boys are now involved. But I believe that if it was not turning out as a hunting dog and he made it a companion dog, that he would not show it as a hunting dog and would never breed it as such.
Culling does not mean you have to kill the dog. It does mean you take it out of the possition of a hunting dog and never represent it as such.
I know alot of dogs that have never made it as hunting dogs and that were gave to a family or person that wanted a companion dog. But it was never bred and never represented as a hunting dog ever again.
If a dog is aggresive towards a person it NEVER gets a second strike with me and will never be another persons problem.
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1617218 - 06/13/10 10:45 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
yfzduner450 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 1584
Loc: West Jordan, Utah
I always thought the meaning of cull was the kill. I still have a ton to learn and thank you for clearing that up.

What i was talking about the loaded question is about what it takes for a dog to "make it". Everyone has a different idea of what their ideal decoy dog is. I don't believe two people hunt the exact same way. The point i'm trying to make is what i think is a super star, you might think the dog it's worth feeding.

I'm very new to this whole decoy dog stuff, so if i'm totally out of line with it all just let me know. My experience with dogs comes from bird dogs and i feel there are alot of differences but alot of the same.
_________________________
"Who's smarter, a man that lives life, or one that lives scared?" By Duane@ssu

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#1617241 - 06/13/10 11:15 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
trapper2 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 2182
Loc: north central okla
good one devin, i have dogs that if they stopped hunting today would still be around when they die because they are like our kids, wouldnt breed them or try to sell pups out of them but they would get to stay. if mine dont show me what i want to see while their working then they wont get bred or passed off as a hunter, like you said everyone is going to grade a dog different but most everyone should know if they should breed a dog for hunting reasons, if a dog only see's 3 or 4 coyotes a winter then in my deal thats not a hunter, even if they have it in them their not being hunted so how do you know if they are a good one, just like we were talking the other day, my dogs dont get to decoy as much as they use to but they still get to trail, fight, find in traps, den, and work under the plane on about 500 ayear, plus hogs and beaver, to me they are getting hunted, but not decoying near as many as yours, we all use them different and verying amounts of time, but if one of my reg dogs thats not "one of the kids" isnt working out like i want, well he will be stopping erosion somewhere, i wont sell him to somebody as a solid dog or keep them to breed
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong

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#1617244 - 06/13/10 11:18 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: yfzduner450]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
No I think you are exactly right.I know for sure my dogs would certainly be trash to everyone else.I was just trying to get at, if a guy is honest with himself, he will know if the dog is a cull to him or not and if it is do you cull it and make it a pet or cull it all together?
My way is far from right and I like to hear what others think is the right thing to do.
Alot of guys on here have companion/hunting dogs, as do I. Do you make the hunting dog first or the companion dog first?
I think it would be harder to make the companion dog first, just is case a guy would have to cull if it didn't make it as a hunting dog.
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1617250 - 06/13/10 11:28 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
trapper2 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 2182
Loc: north central okla
i see what your saying about the hunt first then the pet, tough for me cause their with me all day at least 5 days aweek so they become companions pretty easy, but if thier not showing something by 6 or 7 monthes then its still not hard to get rid of one
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong

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#1617251 - 06/13/10 11:30 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: yfzduner450]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
With my first GSP, I bought it from a guy that told me how awesome he was gonna be......but he never told me about the mother being "gun shy" until about 6 months after the dog was in my yard. Jake eventually ended up being "gun shy" too, and I was stuck with a great family dog, but not much of a hunting dog.

I went without a hunting dog until I got Gus, my next GSP. Now he is a great hunting dog, hunts hard all day, works hard too, but does not have the manners that Jake did. I talked to the breeder and he asked me what I wanted in a dog and I told him "I want a dog that can hunt all day and I will quit before he does", he said "this is the dog for you". He wasn't lying. Gus is a hunting machine, he was out working, pointing, retrieving dogs that were twice his age. The more I worked with him the better he got. Do I think that this dog is the best or field trial champ? probly not, but he works for me. I don't know that I am gonna breed him either, he is still too young to see if he has desireable traits. I think that is why breeders, and I mean good breeders, are such a valuable asset to the rest of us out there. IMO the breeders are out there with their dogs everyday, working them and getting to know what their dogs are capable of doing, they are pros. If they don't like what they are seeing, the dog is getting culled. Not fit for breeding because there are some traits that they are not happy with. It is amazing that dog guys like some of the guys around here are so good at what they do. They are also very humble as well. YOU guys know who you are so I don't have to name you.
When I got Tug, from Wackmaster, I wanted a hunting partner that wasn't gonna PU$$ out on me and stay in bed on a cold day. My kids love this dog, as does my wife. I have started to train him, but I still don't think that he is half the dog that he could be if I was out there training everyday like some of the ADC guys. He is learning a bunch, but he has the natural instinct to chew on fur. He has done that since I brought him home, hasn't change a bit either. Do I think that I am gonna breed him? WAY TO EARLY for me to decide because I am not like some of the other guys around here that know that much about dogs. Like someone was saying, "they will get into the trash and eat and poop just like any other dog", that's all I know. Tug eats and poops and likes to chew on fur and loves my little girl, that is all I know for sure.
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Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#1617274 - 06/14/10 12:08 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: gonzaga]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Workman and I had this discussion the other night on the phone. This is a topic that has no right or wrong answer. Everyone is different in how they feel about dogs. In my case, we've always had hunting dogs and then we had family pets. The boundaries never crossed...for the same reason of this topic.

I've culled a lot of dogs of the years. My wife and kids were not really happy at me each time, but they knew/know that a hunting dog is a hunting dog...not a pet.

By the way, I wouldn't cull a good dog just because of being a kennel barker.

Tony
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Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1617281 - 06/14/10 12:14 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
Happy Birthday Tony
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1617282 - 06/14/10 12:16 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
Workman Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Manti, UT
Yeah Tony, I'm glad this topic is being discussed. Good to get input from all sorts of folks. Happy Birthday too buddy! thumbup1
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#1617284 - 06/14/10 12:19 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Workman]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Thanks guys. Turning 42 tomorrow.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1617297 - 06/14/10 12:29 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
mtcurman Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 4661
Loc: Montana
Happy Birthday TT!!
Ben
_________________________
Ain't no point getting out of bed, if you ain't livin' the dream...





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#1617304 - 06/14/10 12:48 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: mtcurman]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
To cull or not to cull is real simple, "If a dog doesn't meet your standards and you wanna cull it, thats your choice". I'm not willing to tell anyone else what those standards should be.I have culled dogs, and probably will again. I will never sell a dog I'm not willing to hunt.
Standards are an issue for each guy to decide on his own.
I do agree with prior post, not to sell "junk". That is where "personal preference" becomes "crooked" when dogs are not honestly represented.
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"IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK SMART,YOU BETTER RIDE A FAST HORSE"








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#1617426 - 06/14/10 10:37 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Duane@ssu]
FloridaCracker Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 21
Loc: North Central Florida Flatwood...
A hunting dog should be treated like a tool kept clean and sharp and preform a useful job. When it does not then it should be replaced by one that does. That is much easier said than done, not counting the special hunters who get to live out their days because of what they were I have kept dogs others would not because I just liked the dog or some trait he had that suited me. I have a tendency to cull pretty close Dad always said it is just as cheap to feed a good one as a sorry one but good dogs are hard to come by. By culling usually means give away. One thing I have noticed though is a sorry hunter falls from favor pretty quick and usually don't hurt to bad to part company.
As for breeding I will not accept a pen bred pup, there is to much work and expense in raising and training not to start with the best genetic's available. I seldom breed to papers because I don't sell pups but try to breed to a known dog that has the trait's I want in a hunter. I am from N. Florida and run walkers for deer. I love a good dog but don't have much patience with a sorry one.
Sorry for rambling, there are as many different ideas for what makes good dogs as there are different ways to hunt, stay safe, stay legal and ethical and I hope everyone gets to own at least one true brag dog, that's the companion dog I am looking for.

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#1617470 - 06/14/10 12:59 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: FloridaCracker]
Catdawg Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 121
Loc: Nevada
Wow- What a thread about a sure not fun thing to talk about.

Culling is ABSOLUTELY necessary in a serious breeding/hunting program. That being said, to be serious, you don't need 300 dogs, a fancy kennel, a huge bank account and a famous name.

You simply need some good ole fashion love of what you are doing, a healthy ambition to make better dogs, some good dogs, some direction on how to get there, and a bunch of worn out boots. Then you add some buddies with similar goals, lots of game to help prove the pups, some more worn out boots and presto... You can make a difference.

The reasons to cull are up to the person that owns the dog. If you want perfection, well, good luck. Some things I can live with, granted the dog does most everything else right. No such thing as a "perfect dog", they ALL have faults.

If you need to cull... CULL! Don't give dogs away. If you know someone that wants to save a dogs life by taking your cull, give them directions to the local shelter and go shoot your cull.

Part of the problem now days is there are way to many dogs being bred... that should be CULLED. Don't nueter or spay them, and then give them away either. In my opinion, if you do... sooner or later you will hear about some horror story where you will be to blame for the sorry dog flesh you GAVE away. Just end it permanently.

You might say “I'm not a breeder so I don't need to cull.” Well life is way to short to follow sorry dogs. Once you see a REAL good one, you won't want anything less. It cost's the same to feed an ace as it does to feed a cull. You don't do anyone a favor, passing on a sorry dog.

I had an oldtimer friend of mine, that is no longer with us, tell me once. “Cull Young, Cull Hard and Cull Often, You'll have better dogs because of it” . “Cull before you breed and NEVER, NEVER, lower your standards to meet your dogs. Raise your dogs, to meet your standards!”

He was as good a hunter as I have ever known and had better dogs than I have seen since. Words I try to live by.

Take care.

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#1617481 - 06/14/10 01:25 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Catdawg]
FloridaCracker Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 21
Loc: North Central Florida Flatwood...
I gotta remember your oldtimers line, that one sentence said what I wanted to in my post but much better. I do give away dogs, only to someone that they will be helping improve what they have or pups. Most people you are trying to help out the first question is what is wrong with the dog for me to be giving it away. I have given away some very good dogs usually older dogs that can help a young pack but could no longer keep up with mine.

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#1617741 - 06/14/10 08:55 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
Dang Tony, I didn't think you looked a day over 50....lol.
Happy Birthday.
_________________________
Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#1617771 - 06/14/10 09:39 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: gonzaga]
possumal Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 4951
Loc: Nicholasville, Ky.
Happy Birthday, Tony. Hope it is your best ever.
_________________________
Al Prather
Member, Foxpro Field Staff

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#1617783 - 06/14/10 10:04 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: yfzduner450]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
To think or believe a good hunting dog only comes from good stock. Don't cut it IMB. I've seen both scenarios. I've also seen a dog that was frowned upon by the old hunters her 1st yr hunting. She was deemed unworthy & non-aggressive.

That female hound had numerous litters of pups her following yrs[she was used for breeding stock only].

Not until on a whim one day hunting coyotes. Did the last owner of that dog. Find out, she ended up being a holy terror on coyotes.

Some dogs you have a good notion early on, what their made of. Other dogs take time to mature.
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retired

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#1617845 - 06/14/10 11:26 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
Originally Posted By: kirby
Some dogs you have a good notion early on, what their made of. Other dogs take time to mature.



This is very true and I have seen it a number of times, but in my breeding program I am going to cull those dogs and only breed for early starters. I know I will be culling some very good dogs that might have turned out later on in there years, but that is not what I want.
They say a child will learn more in the first 5 years of its life and I beaive the same is true with a dog...that they will learn more in the first year of their life. I think anything after that they are just $ucking hind teet their whole life.
The top dogs I have seen and been around,have always started early. Not saying there hasn't been top dogs that started later, but I think you get more of them that started early. IMO
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1618035 - 06/15/10 10:47 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Makes sense Devin. Clearly the early starters have a distinct advantage relative to time and development.

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#1618077 - 06/15/10 12:42 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: DoubleCK]
Chris_Brice Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 1579
Loc: Iowa
Basically when it comes to hunting dogs (pets and companions being differnt) I'm not gonna bash on anyone for culling too hard. There are far too many people breeding and hunting dogs that refuse to cull in the name as the almighty dollar. The number of 3 year old "barely started" dogs being sold is amazing. It's been my experience that most of the dogs listed as started are really dogs that don't make the cut. Sure some dogs have been just sitting in the kennal but a good number of them have seen plenty of woods time and just plain suck.

Lack of culling and the almighty dollar has ruined a good many of the the coonhound strains. Cur's won't be far behind at the current rate.

CB

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#1618113 - 06/15/10 01:47 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Chris_Brice]
FloridaCracker Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 21
Loc: North Central Florida Flatwood...
I have seen some very good dogs come from mediocre stock and a bunch that came out of champs that did not make what I would call a good dog, I am just saying if I am starting out with a pup he has to come from good hunting stock. A lot of the dogs that I will cull are the dogs that are good average hunters by the end of their second season who showed potential early, but at that age they need to be one that I can put on a track or cast with confidence. I would rather take a chance on a younger dog with potential making a crackerjack than feed a pack dog. I keep remembering the line from catdawg about lowering my standards to my pack or raising my pack to my standards.

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#1619088 - 06/17/10 01:07 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: FloridaCracker]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
Funny how diff guys have diff ideas. Some of the guys get cussed for started pups to young, some for startin them to late. Some like papers, some like pics and video of the parents and past litters.Some willing to "cull" at 1 year, some willin to feed a dink for "ever".
I'm not willin to say who is right or wrong, just "feed what ya like,like what ya feed," This has been around for years, but in today's world I would like to add somethin....
"Don't sell dinks".
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#1619139 - 06/17/10 07:51 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Duane@ssu]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
I reckon I'm not like some dog guys. I don't believe in killing pups or yearlings, just because they don't turn out/stack-up to be a "great dog". Or the cream of the crop.

I'm talking mainly about people that breed looking for the "perfect dog". I don't believe for one minute there is such a thing, as "a World class dog". They all have their flaws, minute as they might be.

I agree a dog that is less than par. Shouldn't be sold/or given away, without it's past history given to the potential owner. I've seen that too. Not cool.

Most of the hounds we had, were bought from other fox/coyote hunters. Most we knew or have heard about their reputation from houndsman we trusted. Best I recall, we were burnt once? on a non-hacker. Most often we used our hounds in pr's or groups. Each hound, filling in the gap[s] or lesser abilities of the other dog.

One of our old hunting bud's. Bought/[very expensive] two greyhound X's. They were fox/coyote dogs. They were 1/2 German Shepherd & 1/2 Greyhound. Both male litter mates, both very large, thick bodied & all the fight you could hope for. They were holy terrors.

Bad thing was, eventually they turned out to be livestock killers. Killed, is what they got. That I understand.


Edited by kirby (06/17/10 09:57 AM)
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#1619144 - 06/17/10 08:01 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
One more thing. Anyone that actually believes for one minute. You have the "perfect dog" or cream of the crop. Then hunt that dog alone on a fresh [non-shot] coyote. You will find out in short oder, what your dog lacks.
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#1619201 - 06/17/10 10:17 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
My pup Jack[around 6 months old], all greyhound. Had him when I was a teenager. This dog was very mature acting when even as a pup. He could be running down a rabbit full stride. Once I would call his name, he would immediately halt & come right to me, right now.





Gave him to one of our hunting buds, as I couldn't take care of him when I was young[no job]. Old friend would take Jack to work with him over the yrs. Buddy would leave water & food in his truck & let Jack out for relief on his work breaks.

Old friend could point out his truck window on the way home from work. Seeing a distant Red speck on the Winter snow. Friend would say "sick'em" & point towards the distant fox. Once Jack would see the red speck, he would go into alert. Friend would let him go. Jack would run out, catch & kill that fox. Bringing it back to my friends truck like a retriever dog.

One day Jack was turned loose "alone". On a relatively fresh 47 lb female coyote. Coyote kicked his rump good, a couple of times. Jack couldn't do it alone, no doubt.

Should've Jack been "culled"?
IMO, no but was worthy as a good hunting dog.


Edited by kirby (06/17/10 10:18 AM)
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#1619208 - 06/17/10 10:24 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Chris_Brice]
RePete Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 5783
Loc: Idaho (Clearwater County)
Originally Posted By: Chris_Brice


Lack of culling and the almighty dollar has ruined a good many of the the coonhound strains. Cur's won't be far behind at the current rate.

CB


Amen!!!
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#1619212 - 06/17/10 10:31 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
My pup "Blue". She was part Greyhound & part Scottish Deerhound.




She was my pet & hunting dog. Guys I hunted with made fun of her & razzed me for keeping her. She wasn't very aggressive as a pup. My Mother made me get rid of her when I was a teenager. I gave her to our old farmer houndsman friend, down by Creston Iowa. He only kept her for breeding stock, as she grew quite large, lanky & had some speed.

One day his hounds bayed a coyote in a brush pile. One by one, each of their best dogs was sent in the hole to pull that coyote out. That coyote had turned around in the brush pile & awaited each dog with a face full of ivory. After a short fight, each dog backed out, they 'd had their fill.

Out of frustration [I reckon]. Old Blue just happended to be along on that hunt. Clyde went & got her out of his dog box to try. He told her "sick'em" Blue. Blue went straight in & fought that coyote face to face for quite awhile. She eventually pulled that coyote out of the brushpile by the side of it's face. Clyde was surprised about how old Blue turned out to be a good dog after all.
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#1619855 - 06/18/10 08:12 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
Originally Posted By: kirby
I reckon I'm not like some dog guys. I don't believe in killing pups or yearlings, just because they don't turn out/stack-up to be a "great dog". Or the cream of the crop.

I'm talking mainly about people that breed looking for the "perfect dog". I don't believe for one minute there is such a thing, as "a World class dog". They all have their flaws, minute as they might be.

That is a sad statement. If you are not breeding with the perfect dog in mind ( even though you wont get it) then you shouldn't be breeding a dog period. That is why there are so many culls today. Too many people breed a dog just to get pups with no intent on getting or breeding for a great dog or a perfect dog. JMO
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#1619940 - 06/18/10 10:29 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
trapper2 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 2182
Loc: north central okla
good post devin, if your not looking for the prefect dog then just go to the pound and pick one.
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#1620034 - 06/19/10 01:16 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: trapper2]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
Kirby, there is a "pack of dogmen" here that believe we can find the "perfect dog".
Some say there is "no such thing", but it is the goal for some of us, we share ideas, and traits, and diff blood, honestly,we also cull all the dinks. We have a common goal, and work together to get closer to it.
You seem to be pretty high on your dogs, thats great.
Other guys that are breeding for certain traits are high on theirs.
Just remember what you feed and are high on, wouldn't get a "3 day stay in some kennels"
Just as what I feed and am high on, wouldn't get a "3 day stay in your kennel".
This forum is a place to express ideas, all are welcome whether anyone agrees or not.
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#1620060 - 06/19/10 07:49 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Duane@ssu]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Originally Posted By: Duane@ssu
Kirby, there is a "pack of dogmen" here that believe we can find the "perfect dog".
Some say there is "no such thing", but it is the goal for some of us, we share ideas, and traits, and diff blood, honestly,we also cull all the dinks. We have a common goal, and work together to get closer to it.
You seem to be pretty high on your dogs, thats great.
Other guys that are breeding for certain traits are high on theirs.
Just remember what you feed and are high on, wouldn't get a "3 day stay in some kennels"
Just as what I feed and am high on, wouldn't get a "3 day stay in your kennel".
This forum is a place to express ideas, all are welcome whether anyone agrees or not.


Well that is good Duane, especially your last sentence. Kennel? We never had so called "kennels" As in breeding & selling dogs, as well as killing/[culling in this matter] non-hacker dogs. The perfect dog? A eutopian dream at best. I would like to know of or hear about the "perfect dog". Must be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars? You think? I fully understand about people killing what they don't like or don't meet, their so called "high standards".

Let me put it this way. Anyone of you. Your best dog, can it match or supercede the "short list"/see[worthy coyote dog] thread? If so, lets hear about them. The list I refer to on my thread? If not, then your standards apparently are not all that high. We were never into making a buck off of our dogs. We hunted them, & we traded them. Some we gave away to other hunters we knew. They did the same in return. It wasn't a business. When we sold, traded or give away a dog. We explained/informed everything we knew about that dog's abilities/history or lack thereof. The new owner knew what they were getting.

As for me being a "bleeding heart" really? What I believe is. I put a higher value/[non-monetary gain mind you] on a dogs life, than some.


Edited by kirby (06/19/10 09:38 AM)
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#1620067 - 06/19/10 08:34 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
I understand what you are saying Kirby, but what these guys are saying is "don't take a cadillac to a mudbog".

They are trying to breed dogs for what THEY are using them for, not for what everyone is using them for. They aren't looking for a dog that will toll coyotes, decoy coyotes, point birds, retrieve waterfowl etc, etc. They are looking for dogs to HUNT all day every day, no matter what. Maybe this doesn't sit right with you and that's ok with them, but they are doing what they feel they need to do. Bottom line is that they are feeding these dogs, and putting the time into them. Maybe they should give you a call the next time they are gonna cull a dog.
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#1620072 - 06/19/10 08:42 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: gonzaga]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
gonzaga, I haven't owned a hound since the early 70's. I'm not interested in owning another dog. Nice try on the snip LOL!

These "best of the best" top dollar dogs. I would like to read about their full abilites/[experiences] from their proud owners. Not to mention any flaws that dog has. Post'em up wink I'll be on stand-by wink
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#1620076 - 06/19/10 08:56 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Two prime examples of a coyotes ability. Showing a hound's weakness or flaw.

On two different hunts. We had a lone coyote run/lope 11 miles. The other coyote ran/loped 9 miles. This was on low hilly terrain. We had a visual most all of the way on both coyotes. No dog alive we ever seen or knew of. Was capable of that endurance or stamina. Remarkable.

Our best trailhounds were capable of a couple miles at best on hilly terrain. Our best sighthounds capable of around a mile. Before giving up the ghost.
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#1620083 - 06/19/10 09:02 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
podunkcowboy Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 362
Loc: central florida
Ive seen some of those fox pen bred inline running Walkers burn a foxs behind up for 6 hours or more.

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#1620087 - 06/19/10 09:14 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: podunkcowboy]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
I only wish I could let my dogs run for miles on end like that. You see, where I live, there is alot of private land and big ranches that are family owned and operated. There are ranchers that would just as soon shoot a dog that is running anything even a coyote. Most of the hunting I am gonna do is close range, I am not shooting coyotes that are 500-1000 yds off, even with a camera, I want them close. I have called them for years, and have had good success. The reason I got my dog was to have a hunting partner that wasn't gonna wuss out on me. My dog may not be "the best coyote dog that you have ever seen", but I am not planning on hunting with you either. I am planning on hunting with myself and my dog, and if one my friends around here that want to come along. But I doubt that you will be giving me a ring.
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#1620101 - 06/19/10 09:40 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: gonzaga]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
I see some raised hackles? No gonzaga. I'm not interested in hunting with anyone on this site. I hunt alone or with one of my Bro's or close friends.


Edited by kirby (06/19/10 09:41 AM)
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#1620106 - 06/19/10 09:46 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
No raised hackles here. I have seen bleeding hearts before, I just ignore them.
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Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#1620109 - 06/19/10 09:52 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
Workman Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Manti, UT
This thread has taken a turn for the worst, I don't think it could be written and re-written enough that we all have our own standard and our dogs have to suit us and that's how they earn their feed. Its turning into a rambling diatribe against an important and essential aspect of sporting dogs, culling inferior stock (for breeding). As far as I have seen, no one has attacked anyone personally and that respect is admirable, but I don't see any more productive information coming from the ranting.
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#1620120 - 06/19/10 10:06 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Workman]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
I agree Workman, I believe most everyone has made their point, later.
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#1622154 - 06/22/10 09:31 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
poser Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 255
Loc: Spring City, Utah
Screw Workman and Devin.....what do they know?.....flamers!!!...lol

I originally posted this topic to get a view on how stupid some dogs owners are....but then again, we all can't be rocket scientists.

If we were smart we wouldn't have hounds at all. Thats why im in this game....."straight up as stupid as they come" but im ok with that.

I'm not gonna cull a dog for something i should be able to fix or for a habit i have created....unless i can't fix it. Most of us have probably ruined more dogs then we have made, if we are being honest. At the same time i'm not gonna feed one i dont like either. "Why would you feed a dog you don't like?"

I think in most cases people have a harder time getting the full potential out of their dogs. Unfortunatelly most of us dont live the life style to make great dogs....we just keep livin the dream and pluggin along.

I have littermates to dogs that are owned by outfitters that hunt for a living....there dogs are 100 times the dogs mine will ever be. Thats just how it is..... We just keep breeding culls to culls and hope for the best....

How about more pics and less argueing about nothing....by the way my dog is better then your dog Workman.

take care, jason
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Best of wishes.....
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#1622173 - 06/22/10 10:06 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: poser]
Catdawg Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 121
Loc: Nevada
Poser- You remember what Frosty did after you told him "Screw them [beeep] bears"... You saw the pic.

I sure hope he don't get on here and read this, Brian and Devin will be in for a rough go round.

LMAO!

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#1622327 - 06/23/10 01:59 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Catdawg]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
I also think this post has run it course.
Once again Poser, thanks for a "chuckle".
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#1622531 - 06/23/10 01:17 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Duane@ssu]
Ben Jimmy Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 768
Loc: LA
I got one of the best dogs I've ever owned for free. The man I got him from bought the dog for $500 but gave him to me because he barked to much. I still have the dog & he does like to bark, but I will own him until he dies. I've been offered as much as $2500 for the dog on more than one occasion. Just goes to show that sometimes one mans trash really is another mans treasure.

As far as culling goes. If a dog doesn't meet my standards he usually ends up dead. No reason to sugar coat it. That said I don't have a problem with giving a cull to someone that just wants a pet, & doesn't hunt. I have yard dogs that are the kids pets, my hunting dogs are kept up & I only handle them when they are working.


Edited by Ben Jimmy (06/23/10 01:51 PM)
Edit Reason: add text

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#1622560 - 06/23/10 02:16 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Ben Jimmy]
lon0121 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 2718
Loc: southern kentucky
to each thier own
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#1622766 - 06/23/10 08:17 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: lon0121]
DonJose Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Deep Red Creek
Doesn't take a whole lot of work to turn a few hounds down on a coyote and run them.It takes a little more work to get a dog to decoy for you!!There was a great dog man years ago in the pointer game name was Robert G. Wehle maybe you should read how he developed his breeding program.Bottom line is what works for you want work for the next, and to most hunters that go out a few times a year to hunt ducks,quail,are even coyotes may not be able to tell the differance from a meat dog and a jam up dog.Seen it to many times.I would never ever ever sell are give a cull to anyone period!!!Thats why dog men now have a bad name and if a man spends time getting a strain of dogs he likes then by all means he should be able to profit from them.You just have to be honest with your self and cull and cull hard.Exposure is the key and training but most people dont and cant do either.
A cull is a cull is a cull.

Jason

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