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#1617251 - 06/13/10 11:30 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: yfzduner450]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
With my first GSP, I bought it from a guy that told me how awesome he was gonna be......but he never told me about the mother being "gun shy" until about 6 months after the dog was in my yard. Jake eventually ended up being "gun shy" too, and I was stuck with a great family dog, but not much of a hunting dog.

I went without a hunting dog until I got Gus, my next GSP. Now he is a great hunting dog, hunts hard all day, works hard too, but does not have the manners that Jake did. I talked to the breeder and he asked me what I wanted in a dog and I told him "I want a dog that can hunt all day and I will quit before he does", he said "this is the dog for you". He wasn't lying. Gus is a hunting machine, he was out working, pointing, retrieving dogs that were twice his age. The more I worked with him the better he got. Do I think that this dog is the best or field trial champ? probly not, but he works for me. I don't know that I am gonna breed him either, he is still too young to see if he has desireable traits. I think that is why breeders, and I mean good breeders, are such a valuable asset to the rest of us out there. IMO the breeders are out there with their dogs everyday, working them and getting to know what their dogs are capable of doing, they are pros. If they don't like what they are seeing, the dog is getting culled. Not fit for breeding because there are some traits that they are not happy with. It is amazing that dog guys like some of the guys around here are so good at what they do. They are also very humble as well. YOU guys know who you are so I don't have to name you.
When I got Tug, from Wackmaster, I wanted a hunting partner that wasn't gonna PU$$ out on me and stay in bed on a cold day. My kids love this dog, as does my wife. I have started to train him, but I still don't think that he is half the dog that he could be if I was out there training everyday like some of the ADC guys. He is learning a bunch, but he has the natural instinct to chew on fur. He has done that since I brought him home, hasn't change a bit either. Do I think that I am gonna breed him? WAY TO EARLY for me to decide because I am not like some of the other guys around here that know that much about dogs. Like someone was saying, "they will get into the trash and eat and poop just like any other dog", that's all I know. Tug eats and poops and likes to chew on fur and loves my little girl, that is all I know for sure.
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Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#1617274 - 06/14/10 12:08 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: gonzaga]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Workman and I had this discussion the other night on the phone. This is a topic that has no right or wrong answer. Everyone is different in how they feel about dogs. In my case, we've always had hunting dogs and then we had family pets. The boundaries never crossed...for the same reason of this topic.

I've culled a lot of dogs of the years. My wife and kids were not really happy at me each time, but they knew/know that a hunting dog is a hunting dog...not a pet.

By the way, I wouldn't cull a good dog just because of being a kennel barker.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1617281 - 06/14/10 12:14 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
Happy Birthday Tony
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1617282 - 06/14/10 12:16 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
Workman Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 1592
Loc: Manti, UT
Yeah Tony, I'm glad this topic is being discussed. Good to get input from all sorts of folks. Happy Birthday too buddy! thumbup1
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#1617284 - 06/14/10 12:19 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Workman]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Thanks guys. Turning 42 tomorrow.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1617297 - 06/14/10 12:29 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
mtcurman Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 4661
Loc: Montana
Happy Birthday TT!!
Ben
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Ain't no point getting out of bed, if you ain't livin' the dream...





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#1617304 - 06/14/10 12:48 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: mtcurman]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
To cull or not to cull is real simple, "If a dog doesn't meet your standards and you wanna cull it, thats your choice". I'm not willing to tell anyone else what those standards should be.I have culled dogs, and probably will again. I will never sell a dog I'm not willing to hunt.
Standards are an issue for each guy to decide on his own.
I do agree with prior post, not to sell "junk". That is where "personal preference" becomes "crooked" when dogs are not honestly represented.
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"IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK SMART,YOU BETTER RIDE A FAST HORSE"








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#1617426 - 06/14/10 10:37 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Duane@ssu]
FloridaCracker Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 21
Loc: North Central Florida Flatwood...
A hunting dog should be treated like a tool kept clean and sharp and preform a useful job. When it does not then it should be replaced by one that does. That is much easier said than done, not counting the special hunters who get to live out their days because of what they were I have kept dogs others would not because I just liked the dog or some trait he had that suited me. I have a tendency to cull pretty close Dad always said it is just as cheap to feed a good one as a sorry one but good dogs are hard to come by. By culling usually means give away. One thing I have noticed though is a sorry hunter falls from favor pretty quick and usually don't hurt to bad to part company.
As for breeding I will not accept a pen bred pup, there is to much work and expense in raising and training not to start with the best genetic's available. I seldom breed to papers because I don't sell pups but try to breed to a known dog that has the trait's I want in a hunter. I am from N. Florida and run walkers for deer. I love a good dog but don't have much patience with a sorry one.
Sorry for rambling, there are as many different ideas for what makes good dogs as there are different ways to hunt, stay safe, stay legal and ethical and I hope everyone gets to own at least one true brag dog, that's the companion dog I am looking for.

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#1617470 - 06/14/10 12:59 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: FloridaCracker]
Catdawg Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 121
Loc: Nevada
Wow- What a thread about a sure not fun thing to talk about.

Culling is ABSOLUTELY necessary in a serious breeding/hunting program. That being said, to be serious, you don't need 300 dogs, a fancy kennel, a huge bank account and a famous name.

You simply need some good ole fashion love of what you are doing, a healthy ambition to make better dogs, some good dogs, some direction on how to get there, and a bunch of worn out boots. Then you add some buddies with similar goals, lots of game to help prove the pups, some more worn out boots and presto... You can make a difference.

The reasons to cull are up to the person that owns the dog. If you want perfection, well, good luck. Some things I can live with, granted the dog does most everything else right. No such thing as a "perfect dog", they ALL have faults.

If you need to cull... CULL! Don't give dogs away. If you know someone that wants to save a dogs life by taking your cull, give them directions to the local shelter and go shoot your cull.

Part of the problem now days is there are way to many dogs being bred... that should be CULLED. Don't nueter or spay them, and then give them away either. In my opinion, if you do... sooner or later you will hear about some horror story where you will be to blame for the sorry dog flesh you GAVE away. Just end it permanently.

You might say “I'm not a breeder so I don't need to cull.” Well life is way to short to follow sorry dogs. Once you see a REAL good one, you won't want anything less. It cost's the same to feed an ace as it does to feed a cull. You don't do anyone a favor, passing on a sorry dog.

I had an oldtimer friend of mine, that is no longer with us, tell me once. “Cull Young, Cull Hard and Cull Often, You'll have better dogs because of it” . “Cull before you breed and NEVER, NEVER, lower your standards to meet your dogs. Raise your dogs, to meet your standards!”

He was as good a hunter as I have ever known and had better dogs than I have seen since. Words I try to live by.

Take care.

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#1617481 - 06/14/10 01:25 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Catdawg]
FloridaCracker Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 21
Loc: North Central Florida Flatwood...
I gotta remember your oldtimers line, that one sentence said what I wanted to in my post but much better. I do give away dogs, only to someone that they will be helping improve what they have or pups. Most people you are trying to help out the first question is what is wrong with the dog for me to be giving it away. I have given away some very good dogs usually older dogs that can help a young pack but could no longer keep up with mine.

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#1617741 - 06/14/10 08:55 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: TonyTebbe]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
Dang Tony, I didn't think you looked a day over 50....lol.
Happy Birthday.
_________________________
Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#1617771 - 06/14/10 09:39 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: gonzaga]
possumal Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 4951
Loc: Nicholasville, Ky.
Happy Birthday, Tony. Hope it is your best ever.
_________________________
Al Prather
Member, Foxpro Field Staff

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#1617783 - 06/14/10 10:04 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: yfzduner450]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
To think or believe a good hunting dog only comes from good stock. Don't cut it IMB. I've seen both scenarios. I've also seen a dog that was frowned upon by the old hunters her 1st yr hunting. She was deemed unworthy & non-aggressive.

That female hound had numerous litters of pups her following yrs[she was used for breeding stock only].

Not until on a whim one day hunting coyotes. Did the last owner of that dog. Find out, she ended up being a holy terror on coyotes.

Some dogs you have a good notion early on, what their made of. Other dogs take time to mature.
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retired

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#1617845 - 06/14/10 11:26 PM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: kirby]
Devin69 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1467
Loc: Craig Colorado
Originally Posted By: kirby
Some dogs you have a good notion early on, what their made of. Other dogs take time to mature.



This is very true and I have seen it a number of times, but in my breeding program I am going to cull those dogs and only breed for early starters. I know I will be culling some very good dogs that might have turned out later on in there years, but that is not what I want.
They say a child will learn more in the first 5 years of its life and I beaive the same is true with a dog...that they will learn more in the first year of their life. I think anything after that they are just $ucking hind teet their whole life.
The top dogs I have seen and been around,have always started early. Not saying there hasn't been top dogs that started later, but I think you get more of them that started early. IMO
_________________________
LIGHTNING RIDGE KENNELS Walker breeding at it's best Used to Catch Big Game Our choice is as simple as Black and White

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#1618035 - 06/15/10 10:47 AM Re: Culling dogs...... [Re: Devin69]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Makes sense Devin. Clearly the early starters have a distinct advantage relative to time and development.

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