night vision and thermal.......what do you actually see?

fireguyty

New member
Ok so I live in southern Nevada and we can spot light here. You drive down the street shining your light until you see "eyes". They are reflective and clear as day. I am sure everyone in this forum understands this.

My question is, what do you see with night vision that is an advantage over spot lighting? Can you drive down the street in the dark and see "eyes" better than with a spot light?

What about thermal? Do you see the whole animal in shining white? I am a fireman and have a thermal imaging camera, but this is only good for say 100 feet, and there needs to be a pretty big difference in the heat signature. With a thermal scope can you just scan the horizon and see everything with body heat to say 300 yards?

Thanks!
 
Hi Fireguy

With Nightvision there are 3 (actually 4) types of device.

Gen 1
Gen 2
Gen 3

and Digital Night Vision

The tube NV devices (Gen 1, 2, 3) emit a green image which can be viewed through the device eyepiece.

A digital NV device shows a black and white digital image, which can also be outputted to a camcorder or a personal mobile recorder

Most NV devices have a built in IR device, which emits infra red, and like light, will reflect off eyes of predators.

This can be a way of scanning a field and picking up eye light.

Here in Scotland, we lamp for foxes at night, and the easy way of seeing a fox is when you scan a field and the particular type of eye bounces back at you.

The same can apply to Night Vision.

Often built in IR devices are lower powered and dont travel that far, so you can upgrade with a IR flashlight, or a Laser Illuminator.

Laser illuminators are different however, as Laserluchs make the only eye safe IR Laser i know about.

This device is incredible and will catch eye reflections from 400meters + and with a decent digital NV device such as the Pulsar N550 Digisight (rifle) or Yukon Ranger Pro (handheld) you can view wildlife to amazing distances.

Check out this video for details of operation of IR



And more details on Digital NV here

http://www.scottcountry.co.uk/news_detail.asp?newsID=1022&link=head


I dont have any experience of Thermal Imaging for hunting, primarily because any decent device is well beyond the budget of the everyday hunter.

Best Regards

Paul
www.scottcountry.co.uk
 
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Ok so from what I am gathering is that if you are in an area that is legal to spot light there is a slight advantage in getting NV in that the animal doesn't know you are there. However, your ability to see them is around the same?

Thanks for the info.
 
Hunting with NV is a huge step ahead of spotting. Coyote eyes reflect heavily into NV equipment and are very visible if using better gear. We don't sell Gen1 kit because it is next to useless for hunters and professionals due to its poor light-gathering, limited range and distorted images. That said, Gen2 is a huge step forward. The thing to remember is that the more light your tube can gather and process, the better your image at distance. This is especially true with magnified optics. There are three types of NV optics:

Hands Free
- These units are designed to be head-mounted on a harness or helmet and have no magnification unless a separate magnifier is added. They come in the form of monoculars, binoculars, or goggles. Monoculars are the lightest and cover one eye. The aided eye sees a 40º FOV of night vision while the un-aided eye has about 100º FOV. This combined 140º FOV provides much better situational awareness. The current standard issue personal night vision device in the US Military is a monocular, the AN/PVS-14 This Gen3 PINNACLE device is as good as it gets. Binoculars, obviously, cover both eyes and use two separate tubes. These are more expensive, but offer a serious advancement in depth perception because both eyes are seeing their own tube and the image combines like normal vision. These units are very useful for land navigation and driving vehicles. Goggles cover both eyes and use a single tube. They are heavier than monoculars and not as popular these days.

Scopes
Not much to describe here. Dedicated NV scopes will give you the best image under magnification because the light is passing through a limited number of lenses. But, you have to make sure you are using a good system. This past year, we have seen a huge jump in NV sales to hunters because of the growing popularity and the infestation of feral hogs tearing up land. We have also seen a ton of guys make the mistake of buying something cheap, finding out it is crap, and then coming to us to buy something good. NV scopes are not cheap. Unfortunately, you have to "pay to play." But, I guarantee you will not be disappointed buying a quality system. It will last you a long time and provide years of successful hunts. Some of our more popular sellers in this category are the D-740 and D-760 series. Check them out here.

Clip-On Weapon Sights
Clip on sights are some of the best options available. But, they are also some of the most expensive. Clip-Ons are designed to attach to Picatinny rail in front of your day scope, instantly providing a NV image. This technology is very complicated to do right. It deals heavily with optical alignment. We sell Milspec units from OSTI. The AN/PVS-22 and AN/PVS-27 are very popular with warfigters for their versatility and durability. Add in the fact that you get less than 1/2 MOA repeatable deviation and you have a winner. The great thing about these units is that they allow you to keep your day scope setup; no need for a separate night rifle. You have to be careful with clip-ons, though. There are come shady manufacturers that make clip-ons, claiming they are as good as the US Milspec units, but in fact, they are shoddy, Russian manufacture units whose tubes shoot loose from recoil and send your POA/POI all over the place.

Thermal is also very popular with the hunting crowd. But it is expensive if you want to do it right. Thermal units' image quality depends on the type of detector/sensor being used. The more sensitive the detector, the better your image will be (for all intents and purposes). This also affects the range. A lot of coyote hunts take place between 100-200 yards. At these ranges, you want something at least as powerful as the Renegade 320. It has a 320x240 resolution. Anything lower than that will not give you the detail you want at distance.

Overall, NV provides a huge advantage in coyote hunting. We all know that coyotes spook quickly and easily. NV greatly aids in your stealth.
 
I will add to the thermal topic with hunting. A great advantage with thermal obviously is the heat detection of the animal especially if the critter is behind brush or tall grass were you cannot see them with your NV, but with thermal, they are easy pickin's. We once had a serious hog hunter who knew there was lots of hogs near a river bed every night of the week, but his night vision was virtually useless as there was high weeds near the bank. The moment he employed a thermal device, it was a whole new world to him and a bad day (er night) for the hogs!
grin.gif


Of course with the advantages of thermal that can see through smoke and fog comes a few disadvantages vs. NV and one of them is resolution. Most thermals with a 320 type resolution can see a good outline and body of a critter at 100+ plus yards, but sometimes seeing the difference of a small calf and a hog may be of a problem. NV (well at least Gen 2 or higher) will give you good identification (resolution) of the varmint vs. most thermal devices. There ARE other military thermal devices I am not presenting here that are a "cooled" array version such as the FLIR HISS that are $50,000 that WILL give NV a run for their money, but of course these are restricted items and even if they were not restricted, out of reach for the vast majority of working folks. Another slight disadvantage of thermal is hunting critters in a rocky type of environment near or after sundown when a critters body temp may be close to that of the background environment in which your observing. It may a bit more difficult for the thermal to bring out the critter vs. a cooler background of shrubs or grass.

Hope this helps.

Vic
 
Originally Posted By: fireguytyOk so from what I am gathering is that if you are in an area that is legal to spot light there is a slight advantage in getting NV in that the animal doesn't know you are there. However, your ability to see them is around the same?

Thanks for the info.

The advantage is no big bulky lights and cords to big battery packs (that drain down fast)and such, plus the critters not seeing you. The disadvantage is cost, your going to have to start at $1000 for a NV riflescope and go up as high as you can afford to make yourself happy you gave your spotlight up. With NV the more you can spend the better in most cases, there are a couple manufactures you can weed out that go against that theory though, and there is a company on the other hand that over achieves with their "inferior" Gen 1 optics. Do your homework before you buy and your be glad you gave the spot light up!
 
Without supplemental light, you won't see eyes with NV. The good part to NV is that when you shine, you can use infra red light. It can't spook animals because they can't see it. IR light also will not make their pupils contract so the reflection will be even more pronounced.
 
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