DPMS AR-15 Rifles and Accessories

Predator Masters using UBB.threads ™ Infopop Corporation.
PM Gear Moon & Weather

Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums
Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at





PM Gear
PM Gear
PM Gear
The Official Predator Masters Search Engine
Loading

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1588547 - 04/25/10 09:22 AM 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy?
jds15151 Offline
New Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Texas/Washington
I am looking to get my son a new rifle. He isn't the biggest kid in the world so I have been considering a "Youth Model" rifle. I am noticing that besides shortening the stocks most manufacturers also slice a couple of inches of the barrel. My question is, which round (.223 or .308) will be least affected by a 20 inch barrel vs. a 22 or 24 inch barrel in regards to decreased accuracy and loss of velocity? I am guessing .308 but would like to ask those that are more knowledgable. Thanks

Top
#1588560 - 04/25/10 09:42 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: jds15151]
mdick Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 164
Loc: Nebraska
My understanding is that accuracy won't likely be affected at all. Velocity will drop around 200 fps for every 2 inches, though. The only part about accuracy that will matter is losing 200 fps, your bullet drop out at 250+ yards might matter more.
But, I'll defer to those with more experience than I have also. (I've seen the same question on other forums and that is the basic answer I have read).

Top
#1588565 - 04/25/10 09:51 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: jds15151]
viper Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 725
Loc: Indiana, USA
I would say which ever one feels the best because I don`t think he would notice any difference. Pistol shooters have barrels under 16" and some of them are tack drivers. Look at what he is going to use it on "paper or type of game" and buy the best rifle and scope you can afford. Also if you buy a Remington or Savage or other well known rifle, and it has a cut down or youth stock on it. Chances are pretty good as he grows you will be able to find a full size stock to replace it with.

Top
#1588577 - 04/25/10 10:12 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: viper]
OldTurtle Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 18169
Loc: East Central FL
I have a 20" Remington 700 Tactical (heavier barrel) that is extremely accurate in .223... Remington makes the same model in .308 and I'll assume it's equally as accurate...

It will depend on the distance your son is planning to shoot as to where the point of diminishing returns falls due to barrel length.. as long as the bullet is moving at the speed of sound for the distance involved, the accuracy should be fairly consistent...It's when the bullet starts to drop below that velocity, that any instability will potentially set in..

The .308 should maintain the velocity farther than the .223, it's a question of whether he will be shooting that far..on a regular basis.
_________________________
It's a fine line between Hunting, and sitting in one spot looking Foolish...
Life may not be the party you thought it would be,,,,But while we're here, we might as well Dance..

Instead of promoting Wealth Redistribution, let's promote the redistribution of the Work Ethic...



Top
#1588592 - 04/25/10 10:23 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: OldTurtle]
jds15151 Offline
New Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Texas/Washington
Thanks for the answers. We are looking at a hunting rifle so I would say 200 meters/yards at most or on average. Maybe the occasional shot out to 300 meters/yards. Thanks again.

Top
#1588603 - 04/25/10 10:39 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: jds15151]
Bernie P. Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 1652
Loc: NY Adirondack Park
Generally a shorter barrel will be the most accurate all else being equal but as the others said you'll lose some fps/ft lbs.Myself I'd stick with a regular sized sporter with a 22" barrel for either of those cartridges.Easy enough for most kids to handle and he won't outgrow the gun in a year or two.This would also help absorb more recoil if you go with the .308 over the .223.

Top
#1588604 - 04/25/10 10:39 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: mdick]
Ackman Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 988
Loc: No. Utah
With the .223, a 20" barrel is really pretty nice and handles well. Velocity loss from a 24" won't be a whole lot.

Originally Posted By: mdick
1) accuracy won't likely be affected at all. 2) Velocity will drop around 200 fps for every 2 inches, though.


1) True
2) Completely wrong.

Top
#1588620 - 04/25/10 11:07 AM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: jds15151]
AWS Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 2388
Loc: WA
If your looking at a hunting rifle and your son isn't a big kid and isn't recoil tolerant I'd shy away from a 308, a youth 308 can be a real mule unless you get some managed recoil loads to start with. As far as the 223, I've killed deer with one in a pinch but don't consider it a big game rifle. I'm a smaller person and shoot youth stocks on most of my rifles or have had my stocks shortenned to youth dementions.

You might consider a fullsize rifle in a 243, 260, 0r 7mm-08 and have the stock shortenned. If you buy a common rifle Rem 700, Savage/Stevens a full sized stock is easy to find when he grows into it.

Here's a Rem 700 243 that I use as a longrange coyote gun. I bought it as a fullsize and picked up a youth stock used for it. I keep the tan youth stock on it for me but move the black fullsize onto it when I take a quest hunting.



I have a couple of Stevens set up the same way in more pelt freindly cartridges. They were both fullsize stocks and one got cut down for me.

AWS
_________________________
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

Top
#1588690 - 04/25/10 01:21 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: AWS]
TripleDeuce660 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 2286
Loc: Garbage Grove California
You might consider a fullsize gun but one that is very lightweight.

A tikka t-3 for example is only 6lbs with a light scope it could be 7lbs. It also comes in dang near every caliber. It will be a kicker in .308 i'd go wtih .223 if you don't hunt big game and .243 if you do hunt deer etc. It is also pretty cheap only around 500 bucks with a 3 shot moa garuntee.

I think the weight is just as big a factor as the size. anything over 7lbs scoped gets heavy real fast even for me and i'm 6'1" and work construction.


Edited by TripleDeuce660 (04/25/10 01:22 PM)
_________________________
People that hug trees shouldn't live in wooden houses!


Top
#1588693 - 04/25/10 01:24 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: jds15151]
Evil_Lurker Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 6721
Loc: Oregon
I shoot a 20" barrel .308 (H-K 770).
Seems to perform fine, but I never ran it across a chrony. The .308 was originally developeded as the T-65 for the M-14 rifle with a 22" barrel, so that should be close to optimum. If your son's small, and you decide to go .308, build it as heavy as possible, because a featherweight .308 will rock his world. Then he's got the tradeoff of packing that boat anchor, but at least he won't pick up a flinch, which is hard to cure.
Cutting the barrel back, if it has the same contour, should actually help the accuracy.

In .223 you don't seem to lose much velocity cutting back to 20" and there's not enough recoil to even be concerned with. 10 year olds shoot them just fine. My buddy's son could almost outshoot me at that age. grin

Maybe start with the .223 and trade in/buy a .308 in a couple years when he's packed on some pounds? You ever consider a .243?
_________________________
Let's keep this a nice site where we help the ignorant.

IdBob: You will be missed, my friend.

Top
#1588712 - 04/25/10 02:09 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: Evil_Lurker]
Retooferab Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 797
Loc: Arkansas
I bought my son a 308 in a ruger compact with 16 inch barrel. I am using the reduced loads from hodogons manual. It shoots great
_________________________
"A free people ought not only need to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence for any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their OWN government." George Washington

Top
#1588749 - 04/25/10 03:50 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: Retooferab]
rkite Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 229
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
If recoil is an issue then a 243 would be a better choice. Let him shoot a 308 and see how he handles it.

In a 7.5 pound rifle a 243 with 100 grain bullets has 9 ft/lbs of recoil energy. A 308 with 150 grain bullets has 15.8 ft/lbs of recoil with a 7.5 lb rifle.

Top
#1588751 - 04/25/10 03:57 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: rkite]
BuckeyeSpecial Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Ohio
For each inch of barrel length reduced from say 24", velocity loss is apprx. 40 FPS, NOT 200 FPS!!!

Top
#1589207 - 04/26/10 02:22 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: Bernie P.]
howling Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 764
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Bernie P.
Generally a shorter barrel will be the most accurate all else being equal but as the others said you'll lose some fps/ft lbs.Myself I'd stick with a regular sized sporter with a 22" barrel for either of those cartridges.Easy enough for most kids to handle and he won't outgrow the gun in a year or two.This would also help absorb more recoil if you go with the .308 over the .223.



I have put shorter barrels to the test a lot lately and if that was true my sniper rifles would all be 20-22 inch barrels.

Top
#1589214 - 04/26/10 02:29 PM Re: 20 vs. 22 or 24 inch barrel and accuracy? [Re: howling]
howling Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 764
Loc: Indiana
Facts are the shorter the barrel the less velocity and if your shooting close targets than shorter barrel works but if your like me and like to get all and then some out of it than I'm for the longer barrels. Any will last a kid years these days and times.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Jack Roberts, OldTurtle, venatic 

Forum Stats
48272 Members
83 Forums
287811 Topics
2720915 Posts

Max Online: 3771 @ 02/03/14 09:55 PM
Today's Birthdays
Andrew McLaren, Bart Saucier, bowfisherman1, Frank S., hawken11, painless, ShootenHoot, Thwap

© Predator Masters™, All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.