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#1586038 - 04/20/10 05:13 PM Cooperology
hawkeye reloader Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 523
Loc: Iowa
I decided to contact Cooper and ask a few questions about my new Cooper Phoenix 223. Might be interesting if you own one.

Q. Action screws, how tight?
35 front, 25 rear, always tighten front first, approx. 50 shots to settle in after each time the stock is removed from barreled action

Q. Test target, distance, where?
Shot at 42 yards in a test tunnel

Q. Trigger, how to adjust?
Will adjust to 1 1/2 lbs pull or send back. Bottom screw is correct one, do not loosen so that there is no spring tension on trigger, test by slam fire

Q. Choice of test components for handload (223), which, why?
All 50 Sierra BKs, ecomonical and known to shoot or gun problem. Powder first choice H335, second Benchmark. New Win cases straight out of the bag no tweaking, Federal GMM primers.

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#1586076 - 04/20/10 06:43 PM Re: Cooperology [Re: hawkeye reloader]
reddog964 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 3904
Loc: In the sage brush behind you
Very Interesting and good information for New Cooper owners!
_________________________
Hang Em High and leave Um for the Birds...

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#1586710 - 04/21/10 09:03 PM Re: Cooperology [Re: reddog964]
Dustballs Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 861
Loc: Wyoming
So those little tiny groups on the test targets are at 42 yards?

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#1586715 - 04/21/10 09:10 PM Re: Cooperology [Re: Dustballs]
tt35 Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 4398
Loc: E Oregon
Yup.
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#1586784 - 04/21/10 11:13 PM Re: Cooperology [Re: tt35]
Bayou City Boy Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 2651
Loc: Cypress, Texas
Readily available for anyone who wants to find it, the Cooper web site states that the accuracy guarantee for their CF rifles is each rifle before shipping is "guaranteed to shoot 1/2” 3-shot groups at 100yds using match grade ammunition." This has been their stated accuracy guarantee for years.

I own/have owned quite a few Cooper rifles and they have all easily been capable of the guarantee when shot at 100 yards.

Each target furnished with a Cooper rifle is fired in their indoor range at a distance of 42 yards. The resulting group does not guarantee one small hole at 100 yards, but it shows the accuracy potential of each rifle. IIRC, a fixed 36X Leupold scope is used for the targets.

As for the combination of bullet and powder the group is shot with, a call to Cooper will provide that for your rile/cartridge combination, or you can find it here:

http://www.saubier.com/forum.html

At Saubier, the load info., by cartridge, is provided in the Small Caliber Load Data area under the sticky titled "Cooper Arms".

That's about as plain as I can relate the Cooper Arms accuracy guarantee that has been stated for years. Anything else is just someone making it up as they go... And if you think that regularly shooting a slightly larger than caliber one hole three shot group at 42 yards with your pet musket is a done deal, try it..

Cooper Arms also provides the original registered owner of each rifle a barrel accuracy/use guarantee. I will ask that anyone who is interested, call Cooper and find out what the barrel guarantee is. As far as I know, it has not changed under Wilson Arms ownership... But, maybe it has...

About 5 years ago I stated the barrel accuracy guarantee online here and was called various assorted unflattering things until another poster called Cooper and received written verification in an e-mail that what I was saying was correct...

IMO, Cooper rifles are well worth the money you pay for one... I've certainly never felt cheated in any way - appearance or function - when I've bought one...

-BCB
_________________________
“Democracy depends on you. That’s why our troops are willing to die for you. So how about in honor of the American soldier you quit making things up?”
- Sarah Palin to the Media (7/26/2009)

http://www.jimmyv.org/


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#1586924 - 04/22/10 10:14 AM Re: Cooperology [Re: Bayou City Boy]
tt35 Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 4398
Loc: E Oregon
I love my Cooper. I don't care how far away their test target is shot!
_________________________


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#1587086 - 04/22/10 03:46 PM Re: Cooperology [Re: hawkeye reloader]
Ackman Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 09/28/01
Posts: 1101
Loc: No. Utah
As BCB says, even at 42yds it's not so easy to get those little Cooper size groups. Most guns won't do that.

Originally Posted By: hawkeye reloader


Q. Choice of test components for handload (223), which, why?
......New Win cases straight out of the bag no tweaking.....



Cases not weight sorted - trimmed-flashhole deburred-or primer pocket uniformed.

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#1587098 - 04/22/10 04:28 PM Re: Cooperology [Re: Ackman]
hawkeye reloader Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 523
Loc: Iowa
My supplied test target was about 1/10 of inch so if you extrapolate it's still darn small! Two of my 5 first test loads were 1/2 MOA or smaller. I didn't know this but they actually guarentee 1/2 MOA. Not too shabby for a $1500 semi-custom.

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#1587350 - 04/23/10 12:00 AM Re: Cooperology [Re: Dustballs]
claimbuster Offline
PM senior

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: Dustballs
So those little tiny groups on the test targets are at 42 yards?

Not really, they have a little old lady with a sharpened wood pencil that has marks on it to indicate the depth needed for 17cal, 20cal, 22cal, etc. holes and she just pushes the pencil through the paper several times. That explains why there are never any signs of a scope being mounted on a new Cooper.

BTW, that does not change my opinion of Coopers. As many of you know, I have several.

laugh laugh


Edited by claimbuster (04/23/10 12:05 AM)
_________________________
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

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#1587430 - 04/23/10 09:27 AM Re: Cooperology [Re: claimbuster]
howling Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 765
Loc: Indiana
When I shop firearms I always look for the 5 shot one hole groups at 100 yards and out of all my firearms say around 300 only 4 will produce this group consistanly with my own personal firearms and my Coopers aren't it in my collection but they are well worth the money because their accurate. My Sako's are the most accurate I own and I shoot a lot of ammo and competition shooting.

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#1587448 - 04/23/10 09:53 AM Re: Cooperology [Re: claimbuster]
Bayou City Boy Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 2651
Loc: Cypress, Texas
Originally Posted By: claimbuster
Originally Posted By: Dustballs
So those little tiny groups on the test targets are at 42 yards?

Not really, they have a little old lady with a sharpened wood pencil that has marks on it to indicate the depth needed for 17cal, 20cal, 22cal, etc. holes and she just pushes the pencil through the paper several times. That explains why there are never any signs of a scope being mounted on a new Cooper.

BTW, that does not change my opinion of Coopers. As many of you know, I have several.

laugh laugh


Oh, my..!! laugh laugh

And a whole new totally repeatable internet fact is born.... I bet some folks will find this good reason to never buy a Cooper.. thumbup

"I know it's a fact because I read it on PM"...!! laugh

Funny post....

-BCB
_________________________
“Democracy depends on you. That’s why our troops are willing to die for you. So how about in honor of the American soldier you quit making things up?”
- Sarah Palin to the Media (7/26/2009)

http://www.jimmyv.org/


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#1587461 - 04/23/10 10:22 AM Re: Cooperology [Re: Bayou City Boy]
skb2706 Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 4884
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I heard it was a three hole paper punch and she darkens the edges of the holes with a number 2 pencil.

I've seen a couple of CBs Cooper rifles. Besdies being exceptionally accurate....they use a pretty fine stick of wood too.

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