Big Black Cats (Panthers)

WSM,
That picture is of a Jaguar, not a mountain lion/Florida panther. Panther is incorrect slang for a mountain lion in this case as the true panther is a different species. Here is a direct copied post from the link you provided, pay close attention to the first and last sentence and underlined sentence...

Quote:Q. What does a Florida panther look like?
The Florida panther is always a tan color. The tawny color is richer on the back and lighter on the belly. The adult Florida panther has amber-colored eyes and a long, black-tipped tail. Male Florida panthers tend to be larger than females. The average length (nose to tip of tail) of a male is 7 feet. The average length of a female is 6 feet. An average male Florida panther weighs 120 pounds, while an average female weighs 75 pounds. Florida panthers are usually a little taller than 2 feet high at the shoulder.

Q. What is a black panther?
A black panther is not a Florida panther. The name black panther is a common name referring to a large, black cat. The only two large wild cats that can have an all-black coat are the leopard and jaguar. Usually, these two cats have spotted coats; however, melanistic leopards or jaguars can be born (in the same litter as spotted ones) that appear to be black. Melanistic leopards or jaguars are actually a dark chocolate color and still have their spots, which can be seen in adequate sunlight. Melanism is not known to occur in Florida panthers or any other puma subspecies.

 
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CG,

I'm in line with your thinking. Everything except if you're referring to the picture of the small spotted feline. I didn't read the whole text but if it's not in there that it's a Jaguar, it could be a cougar/puma/mountain lion. I think??? The reason I say this is because aren't cougars spotted when they're born?

It seems like I read this a long time ago. Please correct me if I've made an error in my post.

On another point, this discussion is like the one on large cats in NY. They may be here, but I just haven't seen any. The same is true with little green guys in saucer shaped flying contraptions. They really may exist. And I'm sincere about this......................
 
I've heard the same stories all my life. Black panthers, swamp/bayou monsters and wolves in Arkansas. I have spent lots of time in the woods in my life and have never seen or heard any of these. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I don't think so. Every account I have heard in person has either been from a TRUE alchaholic or a serious doper. One story from a doper I know could be true, as he said he saw "something' cross the road below my house, that was long, low to the ground with a long tail, and was "tan color". Could have been a panther somebody turned loose or escaped.
 
For black panthers to be seen so often, by so many people, in so many different places you would think that at least one sighting could be confirmed. IT HAS NOT HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXIST!! The information that GC has posted is accurate, and backed up by documentation.

So the search continues for the elusive black panther, often seen, and heard by eyewitnesses, but way to elusive to be killed, caught on tape, or even photographed!

Black Panthers like Big Foot, will be kept alive in the imaginations of people from all walks of life, through stories, bogus pictures & video, and those that just want to believe for no apparent reason at all!
 
I don't give a [beeep] what ANYBODY says!They do exist because I have personaly seen one.Five miles north of Muldrow, Oklahoma.Why would you think that there couldn't be a melanistic cougar?I'm sure that is all they are.Being a taxidermist ,I see alot of different color phase animals.There aren't any cougars in Oklahoma either right? That's why now we have the go ahead to shoot them!I am not a doper or drinker.If you think there aren't any cougars in Arkansas then you must be doing dope!
 
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Originally Posted By: Catkiller I don't give a [beeep] what ANYBODY says!They do exist because I have personaly seen one.Five miles north of Muldrow, Oklahoma.Why would you think that there couldn't be a melanistic cougar?I'm sure that is all they are.Being a taxidermist ,I see alot of different color phase animals.There aren't any cougars in Oklahoma either right? That's why now we have the go ahead to shoot them!I am not a doper or drinker.If you think there aren't any cougars in Arkansas then you must be doing dope!

I think some of the "folks" here are wanting a big black cat to show up and pose so someone can
take pictures of them.
 
Why when ever there is a video or a picture. black panther or big foot it is always blurry and has a 4 year old kid running the camera that can't hold it steady for more then a second or two.
I did drive through florida once and saw what looked like a black panther standing on the side of the highway so I will say it is possible that everybody is right. I just don't understand why we can't get a good picture or video with all the advances in camera gear.
 
Originally Posted By: Catkiller I don't give a [beeep] what ANYBODY says!They do exist because I have personaly seen one.Five miles north of Muldrow, Oklahoma.Why would you think that there couldn't be a melanistic cougar?I'm sure that is all they are.Being a taxidermist ,I see alot of different color phase animals.There aren't any cougars in Oklahoma either right? That's why now we have the go ahead to shoot them!I am not a doper or drinker.If you think there aren't any cougars in Arkansas then you must be doing dope!

The argument is not about if cougars exist, but rather If black panthers exist! I'm a taxidermist too, and see many different color phases in animals. The different color phases in other animals are known & documented. We're not talking about black coyotes, black squirrels, etc., or other animals that are known to have melanistic coats.
 
Something else points to that being a darker colored cat(in the b&w photo. If it was a shadow of the tree you would see it on the ground..the only shadow on the ground is of the guy...then again wouldn't you think you would see the shadow of the cat hanging? hmmm I did find this pic http://www.bergoiata.org/fe/felins/Mountain%20Lion,%20Arizona.jpg
(it seems a bit darker then all the others-so is it poss. that this was a freak and what happens if a melanistic jaguar..or whatever the black ones are cross bred with a mountain lion? would it be poss. to have a dark cross breed? sorry if this makes no sense
 
Originally Posted By: Super White HunterWhy when ever there is a video or a picture. black panther or big foot it is always blurry and has a 4 year old kid running the camera that can't hold it steady for more then a second or two.
I did drive through florida once and saw what looked like a black panther standing on the side of the highway so I will say it is possible that everybody is right. I just don't understand why we can't get a good picture or video with all the advances in camera gear.

Startled photographer, moving animal.
 
My Black Panther story

It was around 1986 and was bush hogging a few grass strips in a peanut field in N Fla. It was about an hour before dark and a brown Panther jumped up in the next grass strip over and took off across the field headed to the wood line. When it was around 40yards from the wood line it suddenly stopped.

It stood there for what seemed a full minute but in reality it was more than likely 20-30 seconds. It then walked into the woods on a slight angle to me. In the lighting and at the angle and approximate distance of 150 yards the Panther looked completely black without a doubt.


If I had not seen it before it was stopped and at the woods, then I would be sitting here typing about a Black panther I witnessed and no one could tell me different. Being the case of seeing it closer and in very good lighting to begin with and obviously Brown I know it was not a Black Panther.

After that experience I went away thinking all those people telling me of Black Panthers ( I thinking they were nuts)may have seen the latter part of what I seen.

My opinion is there are no real Black Panthers but there are very honest and real sighting.
 
Originally Posted By: CatkillerThere aren't any cougars in Oklahoma either right? That's why now we have the go ahead to shoot them!


So...Now that it is legal, how many have been killed in Oklahoma.
 
Originally Posted By: cookstaxiThe argument is not about if cougars exist, but rather If black panthers exist! I'm a taxidermist too...

And I'm a retired wildlife biologist with decades of field and museum experience. I have studied this issue a bit. One can find many examples of melanistic animals including jaguars, but not a single good skin, mount, or picture (other than the one I posted) of a melanistic cougar.

If melanism does exist in cougars, it must be extremely rare, otherwise we'd have at least a couple of 'em, give the number of cougars killed. It's really a matter of numbers- if 10% of the population is melanistic, then you'd expect to see +/- 10% melanistic individuals among specimens. If 1% is melanistic, then you'd expect to see about 1:99. However, if you take a survey of cougars shot, trapped, skinned, in museums, in zoos, in captivity, or photographed, how many dark ones can you find? None (*). So, while we have LOTS of tan cougars, we don't have a single dark specimen. Yet a large number of these "big cat" sightings are of a black animal It doesn't make sense. WHERE ARE THE SPECIMENS??

(*) There IS supposed to be a dark cougar mount in a museum or bar and there are mediocre pictures of it, but I can't find anyone who can verify that it's real and that the fur isn't dyed. Supposing it's real, that's 1 out, what, thousands of tan cougars mounts?

EDIT: I think CCP has a very good point.
 
Originally Posted By: Catkiller I don't give a [beeep] what ANYBODY says!They do exist because I have personaly seen one.Five miles north of Muldrow, Oklahoma.

Not far from where I saw what I saw, about 10 miles North of Sallisaw off of Hwy 59 near Brushy.
 
Originally Posted By: CatkillerWhy would you think that there couldn't be a melanistic cougar?I'm sure that is all they are.

Why? Because there has NEVER been even ONE produced and documented after four hundred years of human exploration and settlement, food, market, and sport hunting, and complete thorough scientific exploration and documentation of this country. Our population grew from zero to over 300 million in this period and technology has advanced beyond anything the wildest imaginations could conjure even a few decades ago. Humans here wiped out entire species that numbered in the hundreds of millions, like the Passenger Pigeon and nearly the American Bison. Human encroachment pushed species from their native lands and some of those faced near total oblivion. Here in Missouri as late as the 1930’s the whitetail herd numbered around four hundred animals statewide and the wild turkey was about in the same shape. Today both the deer herd and the turkey flock numbers are near one million each. Our black bear population went from near zero animals to maybe as many as one thousand bears here at present. Our mountain lion presence was a whopping zero until the last thirty years or less and biologist now acknowledge a mountain lion presence within the state that may be growing with a dozen documented lions in the last decade. So there is a reversal afoot because of sportsmen monies and efforts and scientific wildlife management. Nation wide urban expansion into rural areas is a well known problem for wildlife and the great wild spaces are shrinking daily. Most of those homes have a video camera and there must be tens of thousands of game cameras in the field snapping pictures daily/nightly. Yet we have exactly ZERO scientific documented evidence of a black mountain lion ever being in existence. That’s why…

Quote:Being a taxidermist ,I see alot of different color phase animals.

Ohhh... Well that's different, now tell me again, how many black mountain lions have you mounted?
 
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