Hello...

RedOneFive

New member
Well hello, I am new to this forum as you can tell
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It is late here so I am just going to be quick
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I am from SW missouri and i am Interested in Hunting predators, Mostly Coyote, I Don't have a lot of money to dedicate to expensive electric calls or a new gun for every animal
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And i amm only 15. But I do have ambition. We have quite a few coyotes around these parts so i am sure i'll eventually get one. A guy from the MoDoc forum sent me here for Info on predators... I Am in the market for a New rifle. I am not much on AR's and "assult" looking rifles. Most of my shots out here will be under 200yrds. I Considered the 243win cartridge but it runs about 18$ for about 20rounds... I looked At the .223 And it Is much cheaper and it Has about as good as performance. I am also going to be hunting Missouri whitetails with this rifle. Would a 223 be a good choice for this? Could i just use a Higher grain bullet In it for deer? WOuld the wound channel be large enough to effectivly Drop a deer? What hand-held calls Do you suggest for a beginning caller? Should i Buy some kind of cover scent? What about these rabbit decoys to give them something to look at? Anyone have any suggestions on a good Bolt-action Rifle with a solid-wood stock, as in not laminate, And possibly with a 3-9or so scope for under 400$?as i stated before the ar's do not appeal to me for some reason. Is there a site or something where i can learn to skin a yote? Well i just wanted to leave you all with some qiestions to answer for me for the first time. I am glad to finally have registered and Got to post and i hope to make some good friends here, Thanks

RedOneFive
 
Hi RedOneFive, Welcome to Predator Masters!! Late there huh? Hmmm...check the time of MY post.
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While the .223 is a great coyote rifle and it has killed plenty of deer too, I wouldn't use it for deer. Wounding and loosing an animal can ruin a hunt and it just isn't worth it. For a combo gun, stick with the .243 and you won't be disappointed.

In the price range you are talking of, your choices will be limited. Your best bet in a new rfle would probably be the savage. While the triggers are not the best, the rifles are good, solid and accurate. Another option would be a used rifle and you would just have to see what is available to you.

Good luck!!
Daryl
 
First, Welcome to Predator Masters, RedOneFive!!

Second, I want to clue you in that these guys are not as bad as they seem!! Well, actually, they're worse!!

Fifteen!!! Oh, to be 15 again. Lets see, this time I would study. Really. Did not know what I was missing by not really doing my best. I sure paid for it in sweat later on. But you had questions...

Let me address just one or two, then others will take up other questions.

Daryl is right on about the gun. For coyotes to deer, you can't beat a .243. To be able hunt both effectively, you can shoot a little less and have a gun that is well suited to the job. You will be spending so much time studying for a while yet, that you don't need to burn gobs of ammo. Being careful with each round will make you a better shot anyway.

Don't worry about electronic calls just yet. I can call in just as much with a hand call. Get a Crit-R-Call Pee-Wee. I have called coyotes, foxes, bobcats, and a lion with mine. Inexpensive and very effective. You will add others as you go.

Hook up with an experienced caller for a hunt or two. That will put you light years ahead of the curve.

Otherwise, or in addition, make out your birthday/Christmas/Memorial Day/Labor Day/whatever day, wish list. Ask for videos, calls, ammo, maybe reloading equipment.
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As for ARs, leave them alone for now. Expensive. Just keep an open mind. I was 63 before I would even look at one. Oh, what I had been missing!!!!!!!

Cover scent is open to debate. I tried several over a period of years. Now I just don't bother with it.

Decoys are another debate. I love 'em. They give the predator something to look at so you can
1.) get them to come on in.
2.) raise your gun into position more easily without being noticed.

My finger I use to type with is tired. I'll leave something for others to talk about.

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Critr

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www.SaguaroSafaris.com
 
Hi RedOneFive,

Welcome to the forum. A .243 would be an ideal rifle for you. Don't be afraid about the price of shells. You should be able to find them much cheaper than $18 a box and you probably won't shoot as many as you think.

As for predator calling, if you follow the five rules below religiously, you will have success.


1. Understand Your Quarry. Know the animal you are hunting. Understand where the animal lives, how the animal lives, and how the animal reacts to circumstances.

2. Take Into Account the Wind and Terrain on Your Approach and Setup. Do not alert the animal on your entry and cover the downwind side on your setup.

3. Advantage Hunter! Setup where you have a good vantage point and be well camouflaged by melting into your surroundings.

4. Be Prepared For Your Situation. Know which calls to use for each particular situation and have your gun pointed in the direction you expect the animal to show. Be proficient with all tools of the trade.

5. Be Quiet and Don’t Move! No talking! A quiet approach may be the single most important factor in successful calling! Once on stand, don’t move except when slooowwly getting into position to shoot.


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RedOneFive, it's nice to see you getting an early start on this game. It's great fun. For some reason I neven hunted these critters when I was your age, but I've sure enjoyed it now that I'm going. I'm with everyone else on the rifle - stick with the .243, it's more of an all-around rifle. I have a .223, and even though it's an accurate little booger, I'd hesitate to take deer hunting. I've heard good things about the Howa(?) 1500 (something like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=1585804)(or this: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1525371). Seen them on gunbroker or auctionarms going for $275-300 + shipping, new. I think Savage is still selling their "package guns" that come with scope, sling, trigger lock, etc (like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=1579120). You might want to look around for used rifles too. I got my fiance a real nice, nearly new Ruger M77 in .257 Roberts with a pretty decent 3-9X40 scope for $400 even, with two boxes of ammo. The deals are out there.

Having never used electronic calls, I don't know what to tell you there. But I can tell you that it's a hoot to call a coyote in on your own with a hand/mouth call (I called my first one in this winter). I started off with a closed reed call (Circe, Mad) and then got a couple of open reed calls (Sceery, Tally-Ho) for the wider range of sound. I like the open reed calls better, and have seen more coyotes come to them.

I deck out in full camo, but that's mostly because I have it for bowhunting. I think covering your shiny face and hands is important, as is keeping your movement down, especially when one is in view.

There's much more to it than that, but you'll learn as you go. My biggest recommendation is to get a little gear to start with (don't spend too much money yet) and get out there and make some noise! Practice, scout, and just be out in the sticks instead of playing video games. Hang out around here, you'll learn tons of valuable information, I sure have. Good luck!

Edit: stuck in some gun auction sites for reference.

[This message has been edited by DesertRam (edited 07-06-2001).]
 
Well If this psot isn't all that great i am sorry. First i wanted to thank you for All your replies. Second i wated to say i plan on the 243 definatly now. 3'rd i wanted to say the other message would've been longer and better had i not forgot to enter my password. I am probably going to go with the savage 243 package. I am going to order the pee-wee when i get back inside, I have to build a new pen and lean-to for one of our Does about ready to Kid. Probably take me 3-4months to save up for this rifle but it'll be worth it. I plan on looking into a decoy also. I must go now since i sent all my time on a post that didn't work.. thanks again RedOneFive
 
Hello RedFiveOne
You make me feel OLD...
Deer and coyotes...a 243 will work nicely. And shells can be had a lot cheaper than 18 per box. Watch the sale flyers.

A good tip, find a good used rifle, rather than settling for something less just because it is new. You have a lot to pick from,simply because rifles, like cars depreciate drastically when they are just a few seasons out of the door. (In most cases, production rifles). Many good brands to pick from.

One last thing. Where money is concerned you are best served by getting a top quality scope on a mid or low-line rifle rather than getting a mid to high line rifle and a cheap scope. Do not shortchange yourself on the scope, these days most of the "econo" line rifles are capable of tight groups, good enough for game anyway. Which is much different that the way it was even 20 years ago. But the same can not be said of scopes.


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Safety,Ethics, Accuracy, Velocity, Energy-I am On the Way to the Arizona Predator Hunt!!!!!!
 
uhhh..Tack?..You are old
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Welcome there RedOneFive!...You are now DOOMED
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Taking up with these yahoos will only cause great strife in your life, you'll start buying videos, reloading stuff, calls, safes to hold all the damn weapons you'll buy, wives who will NEVER understand your addiction, kids who will look at you wondering "what happened to daddy?" ...for gods sake son!...RUN! I'm sorry, I get rather emotional when it comes to this kind of thing...you see...well, my name is Bob and I'm a (sniff) Predator Master.

Oh yes, on a side note, stay away from Jason El Paso, he's a bad bad man
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....he makes you buy guns and stuff....I like to refer to him as the "Evil Jason El Paso who makes me buy things I can't afford." It doesn't matter if you have money or not, he just has some kind of "Force" thing going on.

Welcome to the forum, you'll probably survive as you're young and energetic and by the posts I've witnessed, a rather intelligent young man of 15, rather unusual these days.



[This message has been edited by Big Jerk (edited 12-17-2001).]
 
I may be getting in here a little late, but I too will add my $.02 worth. Yes the .243 is an excellent cartridge, and extremely versatile. I have been working with a .243 Savage Striker Handgun, and when I started this project I had three goals in mind. First I wanted a light varmint load to basically duplicate the performance, and recoil of a .223. Well with a 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, and Hodgdon's H-322 powder I did just that. This load prints 5 shot groups at 100 yards of .435" average.

Second I wanted a Full Power Varmint Load for long range, and for Coyotes. Again, using the 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet, but this time with Hodgdon's Varget powder, I have an excellent load. This load is amazingly accurate, producing 5 shot groups at 100 yards that average .186".

Thirdly, I wanted a load for hunting White Tail Deer. This time I used a 90gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip with a maximum charge of IMR-4320 powder. This load is not as accurate as the previously mentioned loads, but is more than adequit for Deer Hunting. It produces 5 shot groups at 100 yards that average exactly 1".

Granted I am using a handgun, and if I were doing this test project with a .243 Rifle, the bullet/powder choices might be a little different. However it still should point out how extremely versatile the .243 Cartridge is.

I would also agree that there can be some excellent bargins found on second hand rifles, that have been traded in for one reason or another. This Striker Handgun is my only my second experience with Savage Firearms. The first was several years ago. A first time hunter friend of mine bought a Savage Model 110E in .243 Winchester. We loaded many different loads for that rifle, in many different bullet weights for both Varmints and Deer. It was just one exceptionaly shooting rifle.

As for the Howa, I have had quite a bit of experience with them also, either in the form of Howa's, Smith & Sesson Model 1500's, and Weatherby Vangards, all one in the same. They too are a good rifle, and do have a decent trigger that can be tuned quite well.

In addition, I also keep hearing good things about the New England Firearms SB-2 Single Shot Rifles. These can be had in a variety of calibers, and even accessory barrels can be ordered from the manufacturer in certain calibers. A switch barrel if you will. With this system, the scope and mounts are attached to the barrel, and when switching barrels there is no need to rezero the scope, provided each barrel is scoped.

Just some thoughts on what is out there. Like has been said in the already excellent advise you have been given, a good buy can be had on a second hand rifle, so you can buy better optics.

Good luck in your quest. To give you an idea as to what is available, and the prices, you might want to check out www.gunsamerica.com .

Larry

BTW, welcome, pull up a chair, and sit a spell, you might just learn something, but then we might just learn something from you also.
 
Well Shucks I would run but I Guess i have to stick around if'n i plan to learn anything
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I am considering a 2'nd hand rifle as you can get great deals on them. I just ordered the critr'call pee-wee from shootersoasis.com They had it for 7.95 and snareshop.com it for 7.50..... but oasis had a ad that they'd match any price and give you a free gift if you foudn a deal better than thiers. so when i called in my order i mentioned it and I am getting free shipping and Some free items
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so i was meantto buy this call
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Was ou working on a rabbit cage las' night and the Coyotes were really getting with it. Sounded like they were standing behind me! Looks light sunday night might be my first hunt. I am going to take my ironsighted .50 cal bp rifle and my ruger 10/22 and my friend and we're gonan go sit on my neighbors property. he's had a couple coyotes killing his chickens. repaired my homemade shooting sticks las night. With my 10/22 and CHEAP ammo (brick of rems) i can shoot .5inch group at 50-75yrds off my sticks. I enjoy my 22 it was really my first guni ever had. I bought a MAD coyote howler about a year ago ause it was on sale. I have never been able to make it produce any natural sound other than GRRRRRRRRPPPP or the reed is spit-stuck to the inside of the call.......... (onna postthis and type a new cause my pc is slowin down liek it's gonan crash)
 
Ok hehe i am back... no crash yet... NEF are good guns i own a NEF single shot 20gauge...sb1. I have another question When i kill my first coyote Do i just skin it then let it dry on my work bench? Or what do i do? i want to hang it on my wall. Would factory ammo shoot fine since i have no reloading skills? We'll I am off to surf the picture archive on here
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drooool some
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Talk to all yuns later!
 
RedOneFive,
Welcome to PM!
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I've been busy at work the last few days and haven't been able to check in. The guys above have given you some great advice. (Thanks guys!) The 243 is a great caliber for both deer and coyotes.
It would be great to be 15 again and find out all this stuff the first time around!
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I'm going to move your post over to the predator hunting forum where you can get even more advice for coyotes and calibers. These guys will give you more information than you can remember!
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Mike Paul


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http://www.predatormasters.com
 
Thanks i feel very welcome here
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I just discovered my new love... the T/C Encore... I am looking at this gun and drooling in my keyboard. I am suprised i didn't get shocked. Beign that i live 25minutes from the Grandaddy of outdoor stores (Bass Pro IN Springfield missouri) I am going to go try it out at thier range tomrrow with my friend. Being a financially challenged 15 yr. old i like the idea of bweing able to buy a new barrel instead of a new gun. it'll save my valuable cashola. Later on when i get a job i'll get more rifles but this would be nice for now. Well it's time to shower and go to bed cause 6am is early....We gots to make our trip to Bass pro under 2.5 hours since me grandma is waiting for a phone call.... Keep shootin striaght~ ROF
 
Hello ROF and welcome to the forum!

I too would recommend the .243 as a nice caliber for deer and coyote. You may have to mess with the bullets to find a fur harvesting bullet.

ROF: What hand-held calls Do you suggest for a beginning caller?

If you go to Rich Cronk in the hand call section of this forum, he can sure help you out.

ROF: Should i Buy some kind of cover scent?

Nah, it's not necessary. Use the wind to your advantage so they can't smell you.

ROF: What about these rabbit decoys to give them something to look at?

It won't hurt anything but it's just more stuff to carry. Decoy's can help in certain situations but are not usually necessary.

ROF: Is there a site or something where i can learn to skin a yote?

John Henry talked about a guy from Texas I believe that had a video called the "2 minute coyote". Maybe you could find out from someone here what the address is. I have John Henry's video where the "2 minute coyote" video was mentioned but I let a friend borrow it. You could also go to the coyotegods forum and ask them about the "2 minute coyote" video. I have never seen it myself.

Best of luck ROF! Be patient for answers to your questions too! Sometimes were a little Sloooooooooooow! Wiley E


[This message has been edited by Wiley E (edited 07-12-2001).]
 
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