Trouble with a Remington Model 788...

GC

Well-known member
My son has an opportunity to buy a .243 Winchester Remington Model 788 rifle at a very fair price. Given the reputation for accuracy these rifles have we felt this would be a really nice inexpensive coyote calling rifle. He was given the opportunity to look the rifle over before the sale and brought it by my house for an exam. Externally the rifle is in near new condition. It was very dusty from storage as it hasn’t been shot or handled for years. A quick wipe down revealed excellent blue on the metal surfaces and the wood looks very good with a few light dings and scratches. The bolt worked smoothly and the trigger and safety operated fine.

Here is the issue, wanting to check function I dug some Remington factory loads out of the ammo closet and loaded the magazine. The bolt strips a round and pushes it into the chamber with no issues. Pushing the bolt downward as one would normally at this point the bolt will cam just slightly downward, about ¼” or so, then stops and no amount of reasonable force used can get the bolt to push on into the down position. Maybe 25% of the time it works as it should, but the majority of the time the bolt will not close downward with a round in the chamber. It puzzles me as it works slick as can be with no cartridges in the chamber. Thinking maybe the chamber was gunked up from long storage I gave the chamber a quick scrubbing with a nylon chamber brush and some Hoppes #9, dried it out with a couple of clean patches, then I cleaned the bolt face and it still won’t operate as it should.

Thoughts on this problem? The factory loads work fine through two other .243 rifles I have in my gun safe so I don’t think it is the loads.
 
The 788's may have had renowned accuracy due to shorter chambers. It's a stab GC. My brother had oen that shot lights out, super accurate rifle. Try various ammo brands then have a gunsmsith check the chamber, I think in there somewhere lies the problem.
 
AH HA!
I'd bet 2-1 that it is the extractor
Check Out the "gun Tech" instructions

It will get bugaboo'd up and bent back into the bolt face if someone chambers too many rounds in it without loading them in the mag.

I was able to buff and polish the bolt face side of the claw and get mine to work. The instructions linked will give you some ideas as to how to adjust the tension on the claw which will also cause rounds not to chamber properily especially if they won't tuck in behind the extractor claw which is what mine was doing.

You can check it by removing the bolt and inserting a round into the bolt face if you can't get the round to tuck in behind the claw it is bent


Worked for me you mileage may very
 
Make sure all is clean and moving. Check the plunger make sure it is not stuck.. You say it has been sitting for long time..

Good luck..
 
Originally Posted By: odawgpAH HA!
I'd bet 2-1 that it is the extractor
Check Out the "gun Tech" instructions

It will get bugaboo'd up and bent back into the bolt face if someone chambers too many rounds in it without loading them in the mag.

I was able to buff and polish the bolt face side of the claw and get mine to work. The instructions linked will give you some ideas as to how to adjust the tension on the claw which will also cause rounds not to chamber properily especially if they won't tuck in behind the extractor claw which is what mine was doing.

You can check it by removing the bolt and inserting a round into the bolt face if you can't get the round to tuck in behind the claw it is bent


Worked for me you mileage may very








I think you are correct... I think it has an extractor issue which is preventing the round from snapping under the hook, thus holding the bolt out just enough that it won't cam down. I don't have it in front of me right now but am going to take another look at it this evening.
 
Mine will do the same thing with re loads if they are not full length sized and trimmed. They are famous for tight bolts with the 9 lug system. A word of caution there are a lot of 788 with broken bolt handles from trying to force them back open after forcing the closed, the bolts are cast and wont take a lot of abuse. Great rifles though I love mine, Ive found that bumping the shoulder on the brass back just a little when reloading takes care of the problem for me.

Stan
 
It may well be an extractor problem as the Remington extractor is a weak point on the 722, 700, and 788. They all are made with a flimsy thumbnail popped into or riveted into a groove. However the 788s like the others are a push feed action. When a cartridge is fed into the chamber it does not matter if it came out of the magazine or was just dropped into the loading port and chambered. The extractor has to pop over the cartridge rim in either case.

The 9 lug action does not have too much camming power because of the short bolt throw. Most of the 788s require quite of bit of forward force before applying the turndown force to lock the action.

The 788s are a little bit tinny but are accurate generally. TnTnTn
 
As a previous poster stated, 788 bolt handles are known for breaking off. It's not,however, because they're cast, rather it's the way the bolt handles were attached to the bolt bodies. There's a round stud turned on the "bolt" end of the bolt handle that fits into a hole in the bolt body. When they were assembled, a preformed washer of brazing metal was put over the stud, the stud was then inserted into the bolt body and heat was applied to braze the two parts together. It wasn't the best way to do things. I would be willing to guess that the rifle you're looking at may have suffered a broken off bolt handle and that the original bolt was replaced with one that left the headspace a little short. That would explain why only 25% of your factory loads would chamber. Another possibiltiy is that the throat may be corroded and heavily fouled. The .243 is notorious for being rough on throats. If you have "go" and "no go" headspace gages available, that should be the first thing to check. Also see if you can check the condition of the throat. Have you tried chambering empty cases? If new, empty cases chamber easily enough it can very likely be a throat issue.
 
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The bolt will have the last 4 of the SN engraved on it. Check that number to be sure it matches the last few digits of the serial number on the receiver.

If the cartridge which won't chamber is coming out of the chamber when you open the bolt, the extractor is probably fine.

If the cartridges which would not fully chamber are a little hard to extract, either the cases (even though they're factory loads) aren't sized small enough for your chamber (unlikely)...

...or the bullets are jamming into the lands and interfering with proper fit. This could be more likely, even with factory ammo--especially with heavier, longish bullets.

You can color the cartridge and bullet with a black Sharpie marker and see where it's binding (the marker will rub off).

Double check to be sure those are not reloads... is it possible they could be? Try some other factory loads in there to be certain...

Dan

 
safe the money off the 788 and get a Savage Model 10.

I had a 788 and glass bedded it and it was a tack driver. I sold it about 2 years ago and kept the Savage I got for my ex.

MUCH better rifle.

The bolt is the weak point and it's strong point. Break it, and it will be more than the rifle is worth to replace it.
 
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Just for the record.
The 788 bolt handle is no weaker than many others. Even 700 bolt handles are brazed to the bolt. The reason 788s have bolt handle failures is because of the rear locking lugs. The length to the rear lugs allows the bolt to compress more with hot loads than front lugs. This compression locks up the bolt with hot loads. It is the 2X4 that is then used to open the bolt that breaks the bolt off at the brazing.

Yes, there was a run of 788s that had bad brazing also, but that was only for a short time.

Jack
 
Originally Posted By: Jack RobertsJust for the record.
The 788 bolt handle is no weaker than many others. Even 700 bolt handles are brazed to the bolt. The reason 788s have bolt handle failures is because of the rear locking lugs. The length to the rear lugs allows the bolt to compress more with hot loads than front lugs. This compression locks up the bolt with hot loads. It is the 2X4 that is then used to open the bolt that breaks the bolt off at the brazing.

Yes, there was a run of 788s that had bad brazing also, but that was only for a short time.

Jack

I think Jack is right. I have owned several of these over the years, and never have had a problem with any of them. The rear lugs bear at 9 different points, and if you shoot over-pressure loads in these rifles and lock the action, it locks up harder than your average 2 lug action. I do think it's the 2x4 or the rubber hammer that breaks the bolt...
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Dan
 
I've got two 788's in the safe right now, one is a .222 that I bought the first week they were on the market back in 1967, it's even got a walnut stock. That rifle has served me well over the years, never a problem. The other is a .243 that my brother got in 1973. The bolt handle came off that in the late '70's when he tried to open it up to eject an unfired round. He fired it, so as not to be hauling around a loaded rifle, and that Monday morning took it right in the front door at Remington in Ilion. They replaced the bolt while he waited in the lobby.

A friend's shop was, for years, a Remington authorized repair site. He's told me that he's seen a number of 788's on which the bolt handle let go under similar circumstances, that is with an unfired round in the chamber.

I'm not an engineer, but I do believe that, given the same pressure load, the lock-up force spread over nine lugs wouldn't require anymore torque than the same pressure spread over two lugs. In any case, if you take a close look at the wear pattern on the nine lugs, you'll note that it's usually only a few of those lugs that are actually making contact in the receiver. I've never seen a 788 with all nine lugs making contact, but then again, there are a lot of things on this earth I haven't seen. Maybe such rifles are out there.
 
Hey, this may not be it but I had the same problem with a Savage 110 30-06. It would not chamber a factory round & allow the bolt to close. In my case the stock was so warped that it was able to twist the chamber some way after it was tightened. It worked great out of the stock & with a replacement stock.

As easy thing for you to do is to try to chamber the rounds with the action removed from the stock. I know you have a shorter chamber & all, but it's worth a try.
 
Jack the 2x4 part cracked me up, mostly because before I started bumping back the shoulders on mine I used a 2x4 once to get it open LOL!!! That was before I read about the handles breaking off guess I got lucky.

Stan
 
I must be in the minority on 788's. I had one in 243, and it would shoot maybe under 1.5" after a lot of experimentation. Maybe I gave up on it too soon?

I bought a Tikka T-3 in 243, and as they say, lived happily ever after.
 
It could have had the barrel toasted by the previous owner.

I shot the barrel out of one of my 788's in .243 win... the barrels are good, but they may be a tad bit softer than modern steels...

An update from GC on this would be nice.
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Dan
 
Originally Posted By: TnTnTn However the 788s like the others are a push feed action. When a cartridge is fed into the chamber it does not matter if it came out of the magazine or was just dropped into the loading port and chambered. The extractor has to pop over the cartridge rim in either case.TnTnTn

The 788 extractor is located starting at the 7 o' clock position and continuing up to the 11 o clock position

A round coming out of the mag will hit slightly above the 6 o'clock position (you can see the scuff mark) on the bolt face, this starts the round under the claw and as the bolt closed the claw will slide down the case head and then jump over the last 30-40% as it is fully chambered

A round being single fed will force the claw over 100% of the case rim.

With this particular design the claw has nowhere to go but back into the bolt face until it can jump over the case head

This will happen only if there is room for the head behind the claw

The claw is spring steel and will only take so many full on strikes before it weakens and starts to role the claw back into the bolt face
 
Thanks Oda for your explanation. I will have to look critically at the bolt of my 788 .223. The way you describe it the action sounds like a crf. I think the bolt face is counterbored and the extractor has to move laterally into an undercut as the cartridge head bears on the bevelled front face of the extractor. It is hard for me to visualize how the cartridge head can be engaged partially before becoming fully engaged. So if the bolt is not fully closed during the chambering process by pulling the bolt back the cartridge will be extracted and ejected? TnTnTn
 
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