Utah!! RANT!!!

Originally Posted By: kmcintosh78 Doom to those that bring the wrath upon themselves.



This goes both ways, trespasser and landowner alike.
 
Originally Posted By: odawgpI knew I should have deleted this subscription

So your saying it's OK when the trespassers/poacher/whatever walks right past the signs or tears the sign off it is still the landowners fault

RIGHT GOT IT



You seam to be picking fights. I cant find anywhere in this thread or on this board where ANYONE even remotely inferred that "walking past signs" or "tearing the sign off" would be a landowner problem or ethically/legally appropriate.
 
Thank God I live in the south where you still have the right to protect yourself and what you own or someone else if they are being attacked. Please don't bring that mentality down here! I thought that the western states had the same mind set as Texas and other southern states. Guess I was wrong.
 
Utah State Statue 76-6-206.3 Criminal Trespass on agricultural land or range land. Also see Criminal Trespass 76-6-206.

I stand corrected on the rangeland, if it is unfenced it does need to be posted or marked in a reasonable manner expected to be seen by persons in the area. However, if it is fenced you could be toast.
 
Originally Posted By: kskinnerThank God I live in the south where you still have the right to protect yourself and what you own or someone else if they are being attacked. Please don't bring that mentality down here! I thought that the western states had the same mind set as Texas and other southern states. Guess I was wrong.

We're not arguing statues here kskinner. We're talking about the ramifications of using force to protect property. Lets throw another log on this. This is the modern age and news spreads like wildfire. Think about this forum. We have members from all over the world. There are two types of defensive use stories that hit the press. There are heroic stories where people are able to defend their families from attack. These stories shed a positive light on gun ownership and an armed citizenry. Then there are stories like your talking about above. Let me introduce you to the modern world. It is not considered acceptable to kill someone to protect your property in most of the country. I don't care if your local finds it ok. I don't care if your state finds it ok. The reality is that when your story hits the world you shed negative light on all gun owners and you jeopardize our freedoms. These stories of guns owners "goin' crazy and shootin' trespassers" are the stories the anti gun people cling to for dear life. They use these stories to unite gun neutral people against us. Understand that by pushing your agenda you are in fact jeopardizing every American citizens right to own firearms.

I understand the desire to protect our property. I have been a victim of theft and there are few feelings as terrible. I will say that outside the emotional side though we have insurance and police to handle theft. Yes, we have to pay for insurance, and there is a deductible, but those costs pale in comparison to your legal fees if you would be charged with a crime, guilty or not.

This is like the difference between teaching at a college and running a company. The theory is fine, and you can preach your morals all day long, but the real world application is very different.

Understand gentlemen I am not posting this because I am antigun or anti-self defense. I'm am very pro self defense and pro carry. I am posting this because going forward gun owners around the country will have to unite and pushing old ideals that most of the country has given up on will hurt us all. I also believe strongly in our rights to self defense. I want to make sure everyone understands the ramifications and uses it as a last resort. I would be sick to see one of you guys jailed for defending yourselves or your family.
 
I'm not concerned about the big picture, I'm concerned about leaving my wife and kids to fend for themselves because I got a rush of testosterone and decided to draw down on a trespasser, but instead I wound up dead.
 
Originally Posted By: kylesredapple I'm not concerned about the big picture, I'm concerned about leaving my wife and kids to fend for themselves because I got a rush of testosterone and decided to draw down on a trespasser, but instead I wound up dead.

And this is the real world application I mentioned above.

+1 kylesredapple.
 
That is very sad that this happened. I have been that way many times and even stopped on the side of the highway to view a nice heard of elk on the hill there. When I was there last I didn't notice any no trespassing signs(not to say that there not there I just didn't see them). You might want to let you family know that there are some pretty clear rules on how to post your property with signage. I'm not 100% sure but I was always taught that it needed to be posted by every gate and every 100' of linear fenceline. It is disappointing to hear this kind of stuff happens. I hope you don't have a sore taste for all of Utah's hunters, because we are not all like that.
 
Quote:When I was there last I didn't notice any no trespassing signs(not to say that there not there I just didn't see them). You might want to let you family know that there are some pretty clear rules on how to post your property with signage.

There where signs on the fence @ the corners and the three gates

The state put in like 10 game gates this fall when they replaced the fence. These things are 4-6ft off the ground and designed so that the game once on the inside they won't want to jump back up onto the highway.

These were posted as they were completed sometime late October

today I doubt you can find one that is still posted, the signs have all been torn down.

most in the last 4-6 weeks as the late season elk hunts started up.

The sheriff has been watching the property the last few days. Two more gut piles where found this time on the opposite side of the highway.

New signs go up and stay up for a few days and then disappear
 
Originally Posted By: odawgpQuote:When I was there last I didn't notice any no trespassing signs(not to say that there not there I just didn't see them). You might want to let you family know that there are some pretty clear rules on how to post your property with signage.

There where signs on the fence @ the corners and the three gates

The state put in like 10 game gates this fall when they replaced the fence. These things are 4-6ft off the ground and designed so that the game once on the inside they won't want to jump back up onto the highway.

These were posted as they were completed sometime late October

today I doubt you can find one that is still posted, the signs have all been torn down.

most in the last 4-6 weeks as the late season elk hunts started up.

The sheriff has been watching the property the last few days. Two more gut piles where found this time on the opposite side of the highway.

New signs go up and stay up for a few days and then disappear







I, for one, am truly sorry for the way that you all have been treated. It is instances like this that help me understand all of the "no's" that I get when asking permission to hunt private property. It is no wonder why people are so apprehensive about allowing people to use their private property for any purpose.
 
Originally Posted By: kskinnerThank God I live in the south where you still have the right to protect yourself and what you own or someone else if they are being attacked. Please don't bring that mentality down here! I thought that the western states had the same mind set as Texas and other southern states. Guess I was wrong.

I grew up in texas, and frankly I could not be paid enough to move back, one simple reason mainly. NO PUBLIC LAND and nothing to do unless you own property or pay someone, there is nothing to do but fish I guess. no mountains, no sage brush, no rivers with trout in them, no high deserts, no aspens, no mule deer that are seemingly protected by a higher power below some cliff at 11,500 feet elevation. we have our disputes and problems but I would not trade them for any amount of money compared to private land of the south, as for me I think I still stay beneath these western skies.
 
i know what ya mean i work on a pheasant farm called wasatch wing and clay and im always catchin people poachin deer and our birds, or people huntin bobcats fox and coyotes that shouldnt be.
 
I gotta get in this.
1st- Why isn't poaching a felony in Utah? I can't seem to get a straight answer on this from the DWR. I hear that a dead elk/deer isn't valuable enough to be a felony, but then I see that Deseret charges $15,000 for an elk. Steal $15,000 from a bank(with a firearm) and its a felony.

2nd- I can't help but notice that landowners(CWMU)can incorporate public land in their operations. How do they get to use public land, then lock their gates and [beeep] about trespassing?

3rd- If you draw down on anyone for trespassing, not invading your home, but out on a ditchline hunting pheasants whether trespassig or not, your an idiot!

4th- We allowed this to happen to ourselves. We sit around and watch as the state creates (CWMU) which then creates a commercial market for animals on land. Notice the original poster doesn't say what they paid the state for the elk on their land. A CWMU sells, hunts, and runs a buisness on the animals that cross their property. Where did these elk come from? The state doesn't stock private ponds with fish, yet CWMU's have public animals on private land, and run a commercial buisness killing them. Without the CWMU, their wouldn't be such a closed off mentality. And before I hear about how "we feed them, they damage fences, etc". First, their would be more feed on the mtn without grazing(not against it, you just can't feed off public land, then [beeep] about animals on your private land), second, if an elk or deer is such a pest and so destructive, don't you want them gone? Wouldn't you let anyone kill as many as possible? I have yet to ask a cow or sheep man for permission to hunt coyotes and been turned down. Why? Coyotes are destructive to their livelyhood and they want them dead. Northern Utah is pretty much closed. Want to make land more accessible, get rid of the market. That $15,000 elk at Deseret sets the market. Without that market we would most likely have trespass fees, or perhaps the DWR could give landowners a few premium tags(instead of cow or doe tags) as compensation for walk in access. Private land is private land, but out here in the West, WAY TO OFTEN, public land is private land!!!
 
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