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#1456298 - 12/24/09 09:59 PM .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote
TimberDawwg Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 08/18/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Kentucky (Bath County)
I previously lived in Michigan where the Coyote hunting was very close range, I've now moved to Kentucky where some of the stands can present a 300+ yard shot on a call saavy dog.....will the .221 make the trip and perform at that range? I've debated having this gun re-chambered to a 22-250 or 22-250AI.

I've got a .244 AI in the line-up for my western trips, but know from experience that "up close" it has a tendency to be real nasty.

I'd like to know what the realistic effecive range of the .221 is? For a stand that I know will be up-close and personal I usually take my .17 Mach IV.

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#1456317 - 12/24/09 10:18 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: TimberDawwg]
RePete Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 4679
Loc: Idaho (Clearwater County)
Wrong bolt face... Can't have it rechambered or rebarreled without a first getting a new bolt,, or opening up the existing bolt.. Both are pretty expencive..

I can't say as far as the 221 at those ranges as I've never killed a Coyote with a 221,,, but I think I'd limit the ranges to under 200..

Luck
Charlie
_________________________
Get my lantern Get my gun

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#1456335 - 12/24/09 10:41 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: TimberDawwg]
Fitch Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 321
Loc: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
I think the short answer is no, it's not enough cartridge.

Why do I think that? Using Ed Mantuna's forumlla for big game bullets, which means using a soft point or similar bullet that holds together reasonably well so the big game bullet equation applies, it's good for:

64 lb animals at 100 yards
43 lb animals at 200 yards
28 lb animals at 300 yards

That is probably pretty optimistic because nearly all .22 caliber 55g bullets are pretty frangible. The bullet (I based the analysis on a max load pushing a 55g NBT) is down to 1800 fps at 300 yards.

You didn't say what make your rifle is. If the magazine is long enough and the bolt face isn't easy to change, you could rechamber it to .223 or even better a 6x45 which have the same bolt face as a .221 FireBall. If it is a savage short action you could rechamber it to be about anything up to a .308 since bolt faces are interchangable on a Savage and magazine parts are available for about any cartridge you can name that fits in the action.

.22-250 or .22-250AI looks like a really good cartridge for your situation. So does a .243 shooting a 70 or 75 grain bullet.

Fitch
_________________________
Life is not a spectator sport. Throw away the remote, get off the couch, get out there, and do something.

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#1456355 - 12/24/09 11:14 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: Fitch]
TA17rem Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1895
Loc: Minn.
tt2


Edited by TA17rem (03/23/10 02:15 AM)

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#1456365 - 12/24/09 11:23 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: TA17rem]
venatic Online
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 6263
Loc: waco,tx
It would not surprise me at all if there are a large number of folks shooting 16 inch barreled AR in .223's that are pushing 55gr bullets slower than the .221 Furball is from a 22 inch barrel. I have shot 52gr Bergers at over 3100fps from my CZ so... I'm jus saying..
_________________________


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963


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#1456391 - 12/24/09 11:48 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: venatic]
BIGGUNGOBOOM Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 173
Loc: Reno, NV
221 Fireball would do the job out to about 250yds, with a good shot. I have taken several yotes at 225 plus with a 221 Fireball.
_________________________
ECV, JCB, 1864

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#1456393 - 12/24/09 11:49 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: venatic]
getfoxy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 9421
Loc: USA
Where are you at in Kentucky that you are shooting 300yards, lol


Edited by getfoxy (12/24/09 11:50 PM)

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#1456428 - 12/25/09 12:22 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: getfoxy]
Blackhawk43 Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1113
Loc: Nebraska
In the 221 Fireball if you start a 40 grain BT Nosler at 3300 fps at 300 yds it will still have 380 ft lbs of energy which should be enough to kill a coyote. At that range it will drop nearly 10 inches so hitting him is going to be the hard part. I have not stretched one out that far but have killed coyotes in excess of 200 with no problem.

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#1456456 - 12/25/09 12:46 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: Blackhawk43]
sac4 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 160
Loc: wa
I think the 221 will do the job out to 300. That is what I use for my calling gun a cz 527 . the farthest I have taken a coyote is 211yrds and he dropped right where he stood. I would not have a problems taking a 300yrd shoot on a yote with the 221 fireball. Im useing a 40gr vmax

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#1456468 - 12/25/09 12:57 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: Blackhawk43]
pieeyed Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 259
Loc: WA
With a 50 gr Accutip the chart shows 300 yard energy of 563# for .223 & 408# for .221. I have long considered 400# the minimum for coyotes, but also know that in general I limit .223 range around 300 from experience. By that 225-250 yds sounds like a good limit for the .221.





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Comparison
Model AccuTip-V AccuTip-V AccuTip-V
Order No. 29184 29154 29172
Avg Wt Case 5 9 4
Ballistics Coefficient 0.242 0.109 0.238
Caliber 223 Remington 22 Hornet 221 Rem. Fireball
En 100 992 401 753
En 200 753 197 560
En 300 563 99 408
En 400 413 66 292
En 500 297 51 208
En Muzzle 1291 747 996
Index PRA223RB PRA22HNA PRA221FB
L RT100 2.2 -1.5 1.8
L RT150 2.6 zero 1.7
L RT200 2.0 -3.5 zero
L RT250 zero -10.4 -3.4
L RT300 -3.4 -22.3 -8.8
L RT400 -15.7 -68.4 -27.1
L RT500 -37.5 -155.3 -58.8
Model AccuTip-V AccuTip-V AccuTip-V
Order No 29184 29154 29172
Primer Number 7 1/2 6 1/2 7 1/2
S RT100 0.0 -1.5 0.2
S RT150 zero -1.6 zero
S RT200 -1.7 -5.5 -2.2
S RT250 -4.8 -13.0 -6.1
S RT300 -9.4 -25.5 -12.1
S RT50 0.0 -1.5 0.2
Vel 100 2989 2271 2605
Vel 200 2605 1591 2247
Vel 300 2252 1127 1918
Vel 400 1928 924 1622
Vel 500 1635 806 1368
Vel Muzzle 3410 3100 2995
Wt 50 35 50

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#1456536 - 12/25/09 03:58 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: pieeyed]
Predburner Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 500
Loc: Oklahoma
How are you going to figure out how far the dog is out....

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#1456537 - 12/25/09 04:08 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: Predburner]
pieeyed Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 259
Loc: WA
After you shoot one, then step it off.

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#1456550 - 12/25/09 06:26 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: pieeyed]
Outlawkyote Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 361
Loc: hiding in sagebrush
Reloders nest is showing 221FB velocities of the 55gr bullets up to 3300fps using H4198. Thats just as fast as the 223 with a 55gr bullets.

Ive got a 221FB ackley improved with 14 twist that I still havent screwed on and shot yet. I wonder what velocities I can get with a 17" barrel?

If primers werent so hard to come up with lately I'd prolly dig it out a fool with it some more.

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#1456683 - 12/25/09 10:21 AM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: Outlawkyote]
Fitch Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 321
Loc: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Outlawkyote
Reloders nest is showing 221FB velocities of the 55gr bullets up to 3300fps using H4198. Thats just as fast as the 223 with a 55gr bullets.


I don't believe for a minute that a .221 FireBall will shoot a 55g bullet as fast as a .223 out the same length barrel with both loaded for max velocity and within pressure limits regardless of what it says on Reloaders Nest.

It's the same brass where it counts, in the base so it has the same peak pressure determined by the brass strength in the base. Case capacity of 22 water grains for .221 FireBall vs 28.8 in the .223 (SAAMI) or 30.49g which is what my CZ .223 has. That means there is 31% to 40% more powder in the .223Rem. than the .221 FireBall. That powder difference isn't going to be made up by magic in the .221 cartridge. Just plain isn't going to happen.

I tried to get there, closest I could get with powder that would fit in the case was H110 @ ~89,000 psi in a 55,000 psi case. Nope, not gonna happen until sombody repeals the laws of thermodynamics.

Estimating an answer to your other question, in QuickLoad your 17" .221 Fireball looks like it's good for ~2,600 to 2,700 fps with a 55g bullet. The best domestic powder was RE10X which came out at 2,629 fps in a 17" barrel at max load. PBR of around 194 yards

For comparison purposes:

A 55g .223 Rem loaded for my CZ is predicted to have 2994 fps out of a 17" barrel.

A 55g out of a 17" barrel 6x45mm (6-223) is predicted to have a MV of 3,114 fps. With more bore area and the same pressures a .243 bullet goes faster than a .224 bullet of the same weight. Essentially the same PBR as the .223 or ~214 yards.

Fitch


Edited by Fitch (12/25/09 10:49 AM)
_________________________
Life is not a spectator sport. Throw away the remote, get off the couch, get out there, and do something.

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#1456830 - 12/25/09 12:47 PM Re: .221 Fireball - Effective Range for Coyote [Re: Fitch]
Blackhawk43 Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1113
Loc: Nebraska
In my experience 3300 or there abouts is what we were getting with a 40 grain NBT over screens at 15 ft. I don't think it is possible with a 55. This was with a 24" barrel in a Remington classic.

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