DPMS LR-308 GROUPING TROUBLES!

L

Lead_Slinger

New member
Alright Gents, I once again reach out to the masses for some incite on probably a simple problem. I recently got a new LR-308 which is not producing the group size I believe it should. Here is what I have done. Before even firing one round I put a Timney 4# drop in trigger. Which is much better than the factory. Every time I have shot it I load one shell at a time and place it directly in the bore not the magazine. I have followed the factory recommended break in procedures and I clean the bore after every shot with a bore snake. I have probably around 50 rounds through it thus far. I have shot 150 gr Rem FMJ (1.75 group), and 165 gr Black Hills Gold Barnes Triple Shock (1.5 group). I now have some hand loaded jobs from a friend to try out and a box of Hornady Match both of which are 165 gr. I would really like to get this gun under one inch groups. I have read several things saying that some guns just don't start shooting well until they get around 500 rounds through them and some .308's just like heavier bullets. How long should I stay around the 165 range before bumping up? I plan on starting to load my own when I can finally afford to get into it. But until then it's really getting hard to afford buying all the different ammo just to try and find out what my gun is going to shoot well. Best regards and I appreciate all the help. Remember our Troops this Holiday Season.---Jimmy
 
You might try laying off the "clean after every round" experiment and see if the groups tighten up with a fouled bore. That wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Here's a link to a site where you can buy bullet samples, instead of investing in a whole box every time.

Bullet Samples
 
Yes, it can get spendy trying to find a grain weight that your barrel groups best with. Go ahead and try the heavier grains, you may find the solution. You may want to also try 168 gr. That seems to be a good starting point as well as the magic number.
 
Have that same rifle and same trigger aswell. I've been running Hornady A-Max 168 & the BTHP moly 168. They are both at about an inch. Some days better some days worse but that's usally me. I feel sure that if I was loading for it the groups would improve but its a pig gun for now and brass recovery is 50% at best.
 
Thank you all for the Help. Once my bank account catches back up after Christmas I will be putting some more money into reloading myself and getting those 168 Grainers.

- Christ is Born, the real reason for every season
 
I would also lay off cleaning the barrel after every shot, try just running a box or two threw it without cleaning the barrel. I bet your groups will start to come in.
 
Lead Slinger: In order to answer your question, you might want to state what you want to do with your rifle. The ammo answer may be different.

I also have a DPMS 308 called the Remmington R-25. Factory trigger was like gravel so I installed a Geissele (excellent).

I started out hunting with mine and successfully demonstrated its accuracy for nailing hogs in the head. However, I quickly grew tired of dragging around that much weight.

I have now relegated it to shooting 600 yd targets. For this task, after burning a lot of different factory loads, I settled on the FC GM 175gr Match ammo. I would not recommend any match bullet for hunting.
 
Keep the bore snake from rubbing the muzzle crown. And I agree with the
others, what's all the cleaning for? Many guns don't group well until the bore
is fouled.
 
Lead Slinger,
I think you now have the right weighted bullet. You may want to try using 42 gr of RL-15 and see how your rifle likes it. I use 168 gr Sierra HPBT being pushed by 42 gr of RL15 and get terrific results out of my Ruger M77V. My groups consistently stay at less than a half inch @ 100yds.
 
Let the rifle operate like it should let it feed out of the mag useing it as a single shot you groups will open up. I have noticed this on the 223s in my ARs the last shot seems to all ways be off quit a bit. And like stated above pull stright out on that snake or it will knock a crown edge off in a quick hurry if its not all ready. I think a lot of the problem is your not letting it cycle i do know it changes POI to some degree. And its not a constant change neither. Cant express enough about the snake as well be careful better yet get rid of it and go with the bore guide and coated rod. Just takes a few more seconds and a lot less worry.
 
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Trigger time, both dry firing (lots) and live firing.
AR style rifles can be more difficult to shoot groups.
Partly due to the different ergonomics. Also when shooting for groups, load 7 rounds and shoot the middle 5 for the group. There is alot going on with an AR in 308 each time you touch one off. Oh and dry fire.... alot.
It really does help.
 
A friend has a DPMS LR308. His gun has a 24" barrel, a NM 2 stage trigger and a high power sniper style scope.

His DPMS needed a few hundred rounds brake in and it definately seems to shoot much better with a fouled barrel. He handloads and shoots 168 grain sierra match king and 175 amax in his DPMS.

I've shot his 308 several times at a local range and have shot several 5/8" and 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100 yards using 168 grain SMK loaded ammo. The Amax rounds didn't shoot as tight but he's still experimenting with them.
 
Lead Slinger, You are cleaning way too much...My instructions from DPMS, when I won mine, was to shoot and clean for the first five rounds, then for the next three strings of five rounds, and then after every twenty rounds until I had shot 100 rounds.... I used the cheapest military hard ball that I could find (I think it came from South Africa)...

My accuracy (factory) load was 168gr Federal Gold Medal Match and it produced 'dime sized' groups at 100 yards...

DPMS308color-mod.jpg


Find some quality factory ammo,,, I know it's expensive,,,and document any information you can about it, if it shoots to your standards, (velocity, bullet weight, case brand, etc) and work to building as close as possible the same round by hand loading..

You will need to play with the actual specs yourself as far as seating depth, crimp pressure, etc...but there is no reason that rifle will not shoot better than what you are getting...unless the crown has been damaged, which I doubt..You just need to cut back on the cleaning a little..
 
Sorry so long on the responses guys, I'm back down in Oklahoma at the In-Laws and don't get on here very often. The info you provided is very valuable to me, I had no Idea that I could hurt a crown by running a bore-snake through it to much. I don't know if it helps at all but I run the bore snake from the star chamber to the muzzle. Yesterday at the range it consistently shot 1" to 1 1/4" groups and do to ya'lls input I didn't clean it at all during the whole process. I would should five shots set it aside and shoot a different gun for a while then go back to it and do the same. I will start placing them in the magazine instead of one at a time in the chamber like I have been. I will admit that the Timney trigger is much stiffer than the Jard my Father-in-law has but is a great improvement from the factory trigger. VolCrew, my purpose for this rifle has no hunting application whatsoever except for maybe a prairie dog town or two. I just want to push my limits on targets and attempt to become a better marksman out to the 800 line. Thanks for all the info guys I appreciate the help and round dope.
 
Not only are you "cleaning" it too much, but that bore snake isn't really cleaning much anyways. You need a good carbon remover plus a copper solvent to clean the bore.

Your main problem is that after every shot you are loosing your cheek rest and position on the rifle. Not to mention different wind conditions between shots. You're basically taking 5 first shots, instead of 5 shots in a row.

Sit down, load your mag up, get into shooting position, and fire all 5 shots as quickly as comfortable without taking your cheek or hands off the rifle. Shouldn't take you more than a minute or two.

If you're shooting for groups, don't do it on a clean bore, shoot some fowlers first. Etc, etc. Basic marksmanship stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGNot only are you "cleaning" it too much, but that bore snake isn't really cleaning much anyways. You need a good carbon remover plus a copper solvent to clean the bore.

Your main problem is that after every shot you are loosing your cheek rest and position on the rifle. Not to mention different wind conditions between shots. You're basically taking 5 first shots, instead of 5 shots in a row.

Sit down, load your mag up, get into shooting position, and fire all 5 shots as quickly as comfortable without taking your cheek or hands off the rifle. Shouldn't take you more than a minute or two.

If you're shooting for groups, don't do it on a clean bore, shoot some fowlers first. Etc, etc. Basic marksmanship stuff.


+1 on the cheek weld. For tight groups you want to repeat everything the same every time.
 
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