Why Not FMJ?

Higgy

Higgy

New member
This thread is spawned from an idea I had from someone else's thread, and not to drift theirs, I will ask it here.

What would be a good factory round for 'yotes in my .223 Howa? I have a Ranchland Compact, and a Bushnell 3x9 on it. I also have about six thousand rounds of M855, which I wouldn't mind using to break her in with, but was wondering if anyone could recommend an optimal load that would easily pass through or not exit, and save as much pelt as possible.

Another gentleman in that thread said that in his experience, the FMJ tumbles too much, causing big exit holes. Do you guys agree? I guess that for all my reasoning, I cant seem to grasp how a solid-jacketed bullet would do more damage than a hollow-point or ballistic tip.

Would you guys please school me a little? I'd really appreciate it.
 
From what Ive heard they better not tumble or they wouldnt shoot worth a crap anyways..Also, alot of people get runners that eventually die, but sometimes arent found.
Im in the process of loading some FMJs up right now for my .243.Im aiming for head or through both shoulders though,so hope they cant make it far with a hole between their eyes. I will comment further after I shoot them
 
FMJs have two problems as hunting rounds...

1) They are more prone to 'pass thru' wounds without doing sufficient internal damage for a 'quick kill' and result in inhumane run offs that are usually not found.

2) The potential for ricochets is extremely (even for a pass thru) high and therefore dangerous to others in the area, past the immediate area...

While I do shoot FMJs, I keep them restricted to the target range and action competitions, where my background is controlled..
 
Fmj do make bigger holes it seems 2me. but hollow points are better cuz of the rapid expansion iv rarly had a passthro with them the only time it would is at close ranges i.e 5yds to 25 yds give or take a variable like shot placement head or chest. in my 22 250 52 gr hp. do alot nicer than a 50gr bt.
 
Old Turtle hit nail right on the hammer....where I live they are also not legal for use on game .....as for the tumbling
it refers to after it hits game not in flight and if it hits
bone,head shots,neck shots, shoulders ...well there is not much left of the critter .....from what I am told
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as for a recommendation I use 55gr V-max for all my .223 hunting big and small critters and it rarely skips off the ground.....I think I can recall 2 or3 times in the last 20k rounds.
some like the Nosler ballistic tips and others swear by the Bergers ....I love V-max and more importantly so does my gun!
 
Ballistic tipped rounds are designed for immediate and rapid expansion/fragmentation resulting in a very low percentage of passthroughs and, generally speaking, provide 100% transfer of the bullets energy into your intended target animal.

FMJ's have a very high frequency of pass throughs, and once the FMJ hits the your intended target and strikes bone, the bullet will begin to tumble, inside the animal, resulting in a large exit wound and less than 100% of the bullets energy being transferred into the target animal.
 
Because it's illegal in most states and there are too many other rounds that are better.

One other note, it is not safe to use 5.56mm rounds out of a .223 chamber unless you have the wylde chamber. I wouldn't be shooting 6000 rounds of military ammo out a new Howa.
 
I would stay away from the FMJ at all cost. When I was in high school my father obtained a large amount of Military .308 and 30.06 FMJ. He wanted it for the brass. He gave them to my brothers and me to practice with over the summer. Well to make a long story short, we decided to use them on dogs as well. After watching my younger brother shoot one at 150 yds three times with his .308 and not kill it, we decided that the FMJ was not the way to go. When Dad found out, he was not impressed to say the least. He then informed us that what we just learned is why he never hunts with FMJ's. That’s just my take on FMJs.
 
Thanks for your responses, especially Jonathan fpr recommending the V-Max.

Its interesting that over the years I have shot literally thousands of rounds of .223 FMJ and never fully understood, well more to the point, never really took the time to ponder the fine points. I appreciate the insights that you guys have provided. Some I will take with a grain of salt, and others leave me with food for thought. Just one thing...

Quote:One other note, it is not safe to use 5.56mm rounds out of a .223 chamber unless you have the wylde chamber. I wouldn't be shooting 6000 rounds of military ammo out a new Howa.

RayB, do you really think that I intend to shoot my whole supply of 5.56 out of a bolt-action Howa? *grin*
 
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you are most welcome ...as a side note,with current demand for ammo ....why don't you call some gun shops and do a little trade ...black hills loaded with V-max ...or hornady with the same or winchester with b-tips or just 55gr soft point factory ...Federal hi shocks work fairly well for me
and are not on bad on fur just a thought! I do not know if you are going to reload or not but some are better choices then others for brass ...PM me if I can help in any way!
Jonathan
 
Originally Posted By: Jonathanyou are most welcome ...as a side note,with current demand for ammo ....why don't you call some gun shops and do a little trade

What!? Get rid of my doomsday ammo supply? NEVER!
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About 5:50 min in show why they are terrible for hunting purposes. You can see the bullet pass completely through and the dog keeps running. You can also see the bullets tumbling through the air after the hit.

 
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Quote:One other note, it is not safe to use 5.56mm rounds out of a .223 chamber unless you have the wylde chamber. I wouldn't be shooting 6000 rounds of military ammo out a new Howa.

RayB, do you really think that I intend to shoot my whole supply of 5.56 out of a bolt-action Howa? *grin*

I would hope not but you never know. It's not safe to shoot even one round of 5.56mm out of a .223 chamber. Do a little research on it if you don't already know. I'm not trying to get in your business, just a friendly warning. I'd hate to read about you damaging that new gun or worse yet, yourself.

I do like the suggestion of trying to trade some of the fmj for some better hunting ammo. You say you have 6000 rounds of dooms day ammo? We all know the bad guys shoot AK47's and can't hit the broadside of a barn. I bet you could get'm all with say... 4000 rounds. You could trade the other 2000. That should give you plenty of hunting ammo and still have enough fmj left to defend your part of the country
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Originally Posted By: VantuckyKainAbout 5:50 min in show why they are terrible for hunting purposes. You can see the bullet pass completely through and the dog keeps running. You can also see the bullets tumbling through the air after the hit.



I couldn't tell what the shot placement was like in the vid. Tracer rounds don't fragment the same as other military rounds so I wouldn't expect this to mirror the results of m193 or m855. I don't know how you see tumbling through the air after the hit. The second round looks to bounce off of the ground if that is what you are talking about.


I haven't shot a yote with military ball but I have shot a lot of jackrabbits and a couple kit foxes with it. Sometimes jackrabbits just about explode and sometimes they get icepicked and keep on going even after 3 or 4 hits. The two foxes I shot with it had a lot of fur damage so they definitely fragmented. In my opinion it doesn't perform consistently on small game. A larger yote might give you a better chance for fragmentation but I have no experience with it so I can't say. If you are going to use it I would concentrate on shot placement and try not to rely on fragmentation.
 
Gosh, With all the poor reviews here, I am thinking I need to sell this gun now...

Nah!

I'll just make reloads with some good hornady and nosler bullets. I'm sure that the proof will be in examining the holes the new rounds make.

Question: With ballistic-tip bullets like the V-Max and others, do they leave a huge exit hole?
 
The purpose of the ballistic tip is rapid expansion and fragmentation on impact, limiting exit wounds. If they do exit, they can be nasty but most do not. The downside to them is angles. They can "splash" on angling shots not penetrating into the chest cavity but creating nasty surface "explosion" wounds.
 
I too like others have had problems with FMJ's in my 22-250 and started loading soft points instead, with better success and minimal pelt damage. The only FMJ's I load up now are for my R-15 as plinking rounds or head shot's only. I also use soft points in this rifle.
 
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