FMJ on coyotes???????

The initial offerings of the 5.56mm were most certainly prone to fragmentation at high speeds. It is for this reason, that a newly designed round, with a steel core, was produced. The new steel core design allowed for greater penetration, but was also prone to "over penetration" at times.

If the bullet hits bone, fragmentation may certainly occur. The round is designed to penetrate to a depth of 15 to 20 inches, and unless a bone is struck, you have increased the likelihood of a pass through.

My experience when discussing this stems from 10 years active duty service in the US Army where all soldiers are taught that the while the 5.56mm may not have the energy of some larger calibers, it does have the net result effect of incapacitation of it’s intended target as well as those who must cease their hostile actions in order to tend to their wounded or incapacitated comrades.

Perhaps my statement of the round being produced to “specifically”, to wound rather than kill is a little to black and white. The round was produced to be lighter for the troops to carry, and to be able to carry more of them.

As Jeff Cooper so famously said, “The 3 most important things to remember when shooting are, shot placement, shot placement and shot placement”.

The main issue aside from where the “theory wounding rather than killing” came from or originated, is whether or not the FMJ is a suitable round for coyotes, and whether or not it “fragments and tumbles”. The “tumble” is bullet yaw that occurs at approximately 400 to 600 meters when the bullet speed slows enough for destabilization to occur. Once this, or any bullet, slows enough, the bullet will begin to destabilize and “bullet yaw” will take place.

I would purpose that while a FMJ round will in fact fragment at high enough velocity, it will not do so with a large degree of constancy such as its ballistic tipped counter parts do.

So, in short, while this has been a fun conversation/debate, it is my opinion, and those of quite a few others, that the FMJ is a very poor round choice for hunting any animal.

Here is a VERY interesting read on the 5.56mm

VERY good article on the 5.56mm





 
You DO NOT want to use FMJ bullets on predators or any other game. They do not work well for hunting purposes, unless you want to hunt for the game that you just shot with a FMJ bullet. There are too many good SP, HP or poly tipped bullets out there to even consider using FMJ for any hunting purposes. MI VHNTR
 
The 5.56 military bullet does indeed fragment. It typically breaks up into pieces up to the cannelure and the remainder tends to stay in one pice. One of the problems with the 5.56 not being as effective as desired is that at around 175 yards and even less for the short barreled m4 the bullets do not have enough velocity to fragment as described above.

As far as tumbling is concerned, none were ever designed to tumbe prior to impact. The first m16s put in service had a too slow twist rate and indeed bullets did fail to stabilize and tumbled. That was quickly corrected. FMJs do tumble after impact with soft tissue. They typically flip over once and then continue on sideways with the base forward. The more streamlined the bullet, the more readily it tumbles after impact.

The Russian 7.62X39 military round was (is?) a hollow point. It was not a HP that would expand the way you would expect our hunting hp to do. It was designed so that the point of the bullet would flatten a bit on one side upon impact so as to initiate the tumble. It was too short and not pointy enough to reliably tumble without the help of the deforming HP. The commercial hp 7.62X39 stuff seems to be a different story though. I have recoverd them and found them to have expanded and petaled back very nicely. Not sure if they all would do that but the HP Barnaul did.

Big caliber solids (fmj) Such as the Hornady 500 solid are designed not to tumble. They have an very abrupt round nose and some other of the big solids have a RNFP design that is meant to prevent tumbling after impact.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeff MockThe initial offerings of the 5.56mm were most certainly prone to fragmentation at high speeds. It is for this reason, that a newly designed round, with a steel core, was produced. The new steel core design allowed for greater penetration, but was also prone to "over penetration" at times.

If the bullet hits bone, fragmentation may certainly occur. The round is designed to penetrate to a depth of 15 to 20 inches, and unless a bone is struck, you have increased the likelihood of a pass through.

My experience when discussing this stems from 10 years active duty service in the US Army where all soldiers are taught that the while the 5.56mm may not have the energy of some larger calibers, it does have the net result effect of incapacitation of it’s intended target as well as those who must cease their hostile actions in order to tend to their wounded or incapacitated comrades.

Perhaps my statement of the round being produced to “specifically”, to wound rather than kill is a little to black and white. The round was produced to be lighter for the troops to carry, and to be able to carry more of them.

As Jeff Cooper so famously said, “The 3 most important things to remember when shooting are, shot placement, shot placement and shot placement”.

The main issue aside from where the “theory wounding rather than killing” came from or originated, is whether or not the FMJ is a suitable round for coyotes, and whether or not it “fragments and tumbles”. The “tumble” is bullet yaw that occurs at approximately 400 to 600 meters when the bullet speed slows enough for destabilization to occur. Once this, or any bullet, slows enough, the bullet will begin to destabilize and “bullet yaw” will take place.

I would purpose that while a FMJ round will in fact fragment at high enough velocity, it will not do so with a large degree of constancy such as its ballistic tipped counter parts do.

So, in short, while this has been a fun conversation/debate, it is my opinion, and those of quite a few others, that the FMJ is a very poor round choice for hunting any animal.

Here is a VERY interesting read on the 5.56mm

VERY good article on the 5.56mm

I agree with all that is said here. My only argument was directed at the fact that a 5.56mm FMJ does not fragment, it was designed to tumble, and it was designed to wound rather than kill. All false statements repeated by many. I completely agree that it is not a reliable round for hunting coyotes or any other critter. There are just too many more reliable rounds available.





 
Ok...Now what about us people that use the .243?Im in the process right now of getting some FMJs loaded up.I dont know what other kind of bullet would be fur frendly and still deadly. For now I will use the FMJ and TRY for head shots.If they dont work, I will switch, SO if you have an idea of a FUR FRIENDLY .243 round, PLEASE tell me!
 
FMJs are peculiar. I have shot them out of a 223 into wet newspaper and they didn't penetrate as far as I thought they would. The 55 grain bullets that I tested did not fragment at all. The FMJs usually bent into a banana shape from plowing through sideways. They also didn't travel in a straight path. My soft points tended to penetrate better than the full metal jacketed bullets. I have shot BIG jackrabbits with 223 FMJs and blew them in half, they definitely didn't just zip through! I have shot a few coyotes with them and they died just the same.
It was stated that FMJs are illegal to use in Arizona. I don't believe that is fully accurate. If I remember correctly military FMJs are prohibited.
 
Below is the regulation from AZ Game & Fish. I believe they are saying that Fully Jacketed Ammunition if designed for Military Used.

R12-4-303
Unlawful Devices, Methods, and Ammunition
A. In addition to the prohibitions prescribed in A.R.S. §§
17-301 and 17-309, the following devices, methods, and
ammunition are unlawful for taking any wildlife in this
state. An individual shall not use or possess any of the
following while taking wildlife:
1. Fully automatic firearms, including firearms capable
of selective automatic fire;
2. Tracer, armor-piercing, or full-jacketed ammunition
designed for military use;
 
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