So what's your take on the best Prairie Dog'n AR Caliber

BBsteel

New member
So many to choose from these days.

The 3 that stick out in my mind for a future build are the following:
- .204
- 6x45
- 20 tactical

Whatch ya got and watch ya like?!
 
.223 which has better ballistics than all three of them. Of course it depends on how far you want to shoot, bullet weight, wind drift, energy, etc......
 
I'd take the .223 for the following reasons.

P-Dog shooting is a high round count sort of hunting that demands high accuracy as well. The price and availability of 223 ammo and bullets is better than any wildcat and many other commercial calibers. I doubt there is a more inherently accurate caliber chambered for the AR-15. There are certainly many outstanding individual rifles in other suitable calibers. The simple fact that some of the wildcats are using ammo that has been assembled with more attention to the details, makes them very effective P-Dog getters. I doubt the average AR shooter wants to go through all that for an AR used on colony animals. The only serious contender for the .223 has to be the .204 Ruger at this time. I don't have any data that suggests what the expected barrel life is on a .204 Ruger, used for fast action in a P-Dog town, but it will be something less than a .223 with the same barrel.

The wind is a major factor here on the prairie. Many shooters find judging the wind much harder than figuring the drop at various ranges so heavier bullets seem to be less problematic. I have settled on the 60 grain V-Max for my 1/8 twist 24 in barrel.

The bullet choices for the .223 far exceed those for the the .204 Calibers. The availability of all the military brass is a big plus for the .223 Rem.
 
sodakjim pretty much summed it up.
For me, the price and availability has a lot to do with it for the average guy wanting a PD rifle.
The 223 has done so much and can still do so much that it would be...and is, my choice.

One other thing I'll add about the 204 is in "standard" or "usual" PD shooting situations the 204 barrel heats up so fast, like just 10 rounds in 10 minutes, and the barrel is so hot you can't hold on to it. Then it takes so long for it to cool.

Interesting thread. I'll be watching it to see what the others have to say.

Mark
 
I think it depends on what criteria you plan to apply...

If you are having to buy commercial ammo, then I will agree with the .223.... If you reload, are not really concerned about overall costs, then I would go for 1) .20 Tactical, 2)6x45, and finally the .204...

I have three .223s and two .204s....each have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to prairie dogs, wind, etc..

I've been seriously considering a .20 Tactical or Practical for my next one, just since I have so much .223 brass already on hand...Now if the price and availability of SR Primers ever come back into an area of reasonableness....
 
Wow! This has gone in every direction imaginable!

1) The statement: ".223 which has better ballistics than all three of them." is pretty wide open. I think if you run the range-tables, different bullet-weights and barrel twists, you will find the .223 is NOT necessarily on top. From the extremes of a 9 twist 20 caliber and a 50 grain VLD, all the way to the 6 x 45 with about 30% more energy than the .223, there is room at the top.

2) The availability of bullets: This can go both ways. Last time I was looking for bullets for an upcoming P-D hunt, I couldn't find the value packs Speer TNT's anywhere, but was able to get bulk packs of 6mm, 70 grain Sierra Blitz-Kings from a couple of different suppliers. Edited to add: The .224 bullet selection is good, but it is also very popular. Often times the popular .224 bullets for P-D hunting will blow-out of stores and distributors early on. The 6mm bullets are not quite as susceptible to being "cleaned out". Bottom line: If the bullets are "out of stock" it doesn't matter how good the "bullet selection" is!

The bullet selection between .224 and .243 is actually quite close, and I have NEVER come close to exploring all of the choices in either one. After all, once you find the bullet that works well for you, why do you need another 99 choices? I have shot the Speer TNT in my .223 for P-D's for about 20 years. I have tried others, but still end up going back to the TNT's.

3) Raw accuracy: Anyone that has loaded for any length of time, and with a wide variety of calibers, is aware of the fact that some calibers are more easy to load for than others. I'm not talking "assembly" of the cartridge when I say "easy to load for", I'm talking easy to find an accurate load for. A load that is accurate today, tomorrow and next month when it's much colder. If you pay attention, the difference that makes certain cartridges "easier" to load for is the proportion of bullet diameter to case capacity. The more "overbore" the case is, the more fickle or difficult it can be to load for.

Take the .308 Winchester case: This case has spawned a whole line of commercial cartridges all the way from the .243 Winchester, to the .358 Winchester. Loading for the .243 Win. is not as difficult as some that I have loaded for, but it is fickle. Step up to the .308 (same case, larger bullet diameter) and the loading gets noticeably easier. Basically, pick a quality bullet, look in the loading manual and pick a powder that will drive that bullet at a velocity that is prudent, and that load will shoot around, or under an inch @ 100 yards. With just a little work, you can tighten that group up. You can find literally dozens of sub MOA loads for the .308 that will shoot that way any day, not so with the .243 Win. The WSSM line that I work with on a daily basis is another example. I probably get a call once a week from a customer struggling with loads for the .243 WSSM, but have yet to get a call for the same reason about the .25 WSSM. The .25 is just that much easier to load for!

All that being said, the 6 x 45, given the same, or perhaps even less attention to detail, will produce more accurate loads than any of the other choices.

4) Between the four choices, three of them feed and function with ease through the AR-15. The .204 Ruger is longer, and with that, can and does have issues with feed and function. When everything is "right" the .204 will run just fine. If there is ANYTHING that is not right, you will be the most unhappy P-D hunter in the field.

I have shot P-D's for several decades with calibers from .17 Remington, on up to the .243 Super Rock Chucker. As far as "bang for your buck" it is tough to beat the .223 Remington with a 50 grain frangible bullet. Sure, you can get more "splash" with the Super Rock Chucker, but at what expense? Sure, the .204 is flatter shooting, but you just don't get the same destruction that you do with either the 6 x 45 or the .223. With the sight-height of an AR, the point-blank range is sooooo good, you really don't need the flatness of the .20 calibers anyway!
 
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My first dedicated varmint gun was an AR with a 1-8" heavy 24" SS barrel, complete with the Young Mfg BCG and a two stage Rock River trigger. I reload for it, so the caliber choice had more to do with all the brass I have and the availability of bullets than anything else. This rifle does everything I want it to, although since I purposely chose the 1-8" barrel it's tailored more for the songdogs and fatter marmots here in Colorado than anything else. So when I started looking for something a little smaller, and faster, for sod rats l considered another .223 with a twist for the lighter bullets. But while doing research and comparing the .223, .204, .20 Tactical, and some others like the .17 Fireball I started finding bits of info about the .17 Remington. After sorting through all the info, myths, legends, and downright BS about the cartridge and coming up with a 'top 3' list that included the .204, the .223 for lighter bullets, and the .17 Remington I eventually chose the .17 Remington. (I can almost hear the groans now.) I chose this cartridge based on shots within about 350 yards, that would handle varmints up to coyote size with careful shot placement with minimal fur damage, that had readily available components and dies, and that I could get based on my price range. I found a very nice AR flattop upper with a 24" SS heavy barrel and a Yankee Hill Machine lightweight 4 rail forearm tube within my price range. I've been very happy with it so far, and I've been able to use some of my .223 brass to form cases and my powder selection has supported this cartridge also. Bullets were easily found at the local gunshow. I haven't had any accuracy or fouling issues, the bore isn't crumbling before my eyes, and the critters hit with those tiny pills have dropped like stones. Would I have liked the .204 as well? Probably. But I've always had a soft spot for oddball cartridges, and this one just has the neat factor going for it.
 
Dtech said:
1) The statement: ".223 which has better ballistics than all three of them." is pretty wide open. I think if you run the range-tables, different bullet-weights and barrel twists, you will find the .223 is NOT necessarily on top. From the extremes of a 9 twist 20 caliber and a 50 grain VLD, all the way to the 6 x 45 with about 30% more energy than the .223, there is room at the top.

I Ran the patagonia($150)ballistic program that I have and with the extremes, Mike is right the .20 Tactical does out perform the Sierra 77gr BTHP match king in bullet drop. All three of them were about the same in wind drift.

I stand corrected on my statement that the .223 has better ballistics, but still stand behind the caliber as my favorite due to popularity, ballistics, ease of getting them, etc... I'm going to go back and run an extreme check on some 80-90gr .224 bullets to see if they come out close to the .20 Tactical.
 
Scott, the numbers can be massaged back and forth to come up with just about anything. That wasn't my point by saying that the ".223 was not on the top". Where I'm sure there is someone somewhere that has shot prairie dogs with 80-90 grain .224 bullets, I don't think it's the norm, nor do I believe it was in the spirit in which the post was started.

Correct me if I'm wrong BBsteel, but I took your original post to more of a question of "what is the best, all around PD hunting caliber for an AR" Not necessarily "What caliber in an chambered in an AR would be the best for taking a prairie dog at extreme long range" Those are two completely separate intents that may have different outcomes, and not because of inferior or superior ballistics.

If BBsteel was indeed speaking of "mainstream prairie dog hunting" then any of the choices are good for the job. If you are an avid hand loader, I think the 6 x 45 is probably my pick, with the .20 Tac and .223 VERY close behind.
 
I don't know about "best" but I prefer the .223/5.56. It fills a number of roles and seems to do what I ask of it.

Ground squirrels to deer. If I do my part, the .223 meets my needs.
 
I've shot a lot of PD's over a lot of years with a lot of different cartridges.

In any rife configuration, I prefer the Tac 20 and the 6X45, which both adapt to the AR platform very easily. The 223 would be third on my list.

In a bolt gun, the 223 would be superseded by the 222 Rem Mag and the 17 Rem for good all-around PD rounds... The other two (Tac 20 and 6X45) would still be in the top spots...

JMO - BCB
 
Sorry if this is considered jacking the post, and please forgive my ignorance but why is the 20 Tac such a big deal? Its slightly slower than the 204, and requires more work to reload. Seems to me that the 204 ruger would be a better choice every time.
 
Well the first thing its easy to turn .223 brass into Tac 20 and .223 brass WAS cheap and easy to get.
I think Mike mentioned above the Tac works a little better in an AR as well.
Speed is pretty much a wash.
 
Originally Posted By: Dtech
Correct me if I'm wrong BBsteel, but I took your original post to more of a question of "what is the best, all around PD hunting caliber for an AR" Not necessarily "What caliber in an chambered in an AR would be the best for taking a prairie dog at extreme long range" Those are two completely separate intents that may have different outcomes, and not because of inferior or superior ballistics.

If BBsteel was indeed speaking of "mainstream prairie dog hunting" then any of the choices are good for the job. If you are an avid hand loader, I think the 6 x 45 is probably my pick, with the .20 Tac and .223 VERY close behind.

I guess maybe I was us thinking "all around" at first. But this had been a very interesting thread and all replies have been great. One guy could think the best PD AR caliber is one he shoots out to extreme ranges with and another guy could think the best is based on ammo availability and cost and possibly combined with shorter ranges. Just looking for everyone's opinions and they've been great.

Me, I already have enough .223's so I'm in for something else.
 
Originally Posted By: venaticWell the first thing its easy to turn .223 brass into Tac 20 and .223 brass WAS cheap and easy to get.
I think Mike mentioned above the Tac works a little better in an AR as well.
Speed is pretty much a wash.

Thanks!
 
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