Huskemaw Scope

IMO 1/3 moa adjustments are just a plain bad idea and Huskemaws are Asian and would not come close to holding up to a Nightforce under adverse conditions......
 
You can't say a particular brand is not a manufacturer just because they import their lenses. Even Leupold imports their lenses. I suspect there are no longer any lenses made in the US?

Jack
 
Not that I know of, and I agree with you. Leupold riflescopes are still mfg. in the USA though. Apparently some Nightforce models are also. Lots of scopes are designed here, but mfg. elsewhere of foreign parts. Zeiss Conquests are assembled here of imported parts.....
 
Originally Posted By: HOGGHEADOriginally Posted By: thegman1763Hogghead, not going to get in a peeing match here but I believe you are wrong about NF. I have a friend in ID who is a machinist who interviewed with NF a few years ago for a machinist position with them. Be kinda silly to employ a machinist if you didn't machine or manufacture anything now wouldn't it?


By no means did I mean to start an argument. My main point was that NF imports(if not all) the most important part of their scope or scopes. The lenses. And these lenses are only made by a small handful of companies that make lenses worldwide. And these mfrs. make lenses to specifications. As I am sure you already know. And since they are importing this glass, and not making the glass---that makes them a "trade name". Or at least that is my opinion.

Since they do not make these lenses then they will be limited to what warranties they can offer for a product that they truly do not mfr. Or that they may partially mfr---or simply assemble.

And this by no means would limit them from selling a different product that is built to a different spec.

I have talked to a good bit of NF customers. And one of the comments that I have picked up from them is that there have been some different levels of quality in the past(I am sure they are not the only ones). However I have heard that these problems are definitely in the past.

I am not knocking NF. I am strongly considering the purchase of my first one. However I keep getting scared off by their limited production and IMO experience. $1800 is a lot of money for a scope with a lifetime warranty if they are not around in ten years?? Tom.

Ah, it's so nice to come to a forum where people are civilized & can have discussions without slinging mud at each other. Sadly, not the case with some other places I am registered....
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I agree that the glass quality is paramount in a scope but just because a company imports lenses or other parts of the scope, this doesn't make it a bad company or merely an assembler of parts & ergo, not really a manufacturer. I know it's slightly different but would anyone consider Rock River Arms to not really be a manufacturer of AR style rifles? Given that they don't make anything themselves in house & only assemble rifles, I guess they really aren't?

I work in the gun industry (now part time but previously full time) & I can tell you that there are very, very, few 'manufacturers' who do exactly that, manufacture every thing.

I would rather have a company realize that their strength is in the manufacturing of a certain number of smaller, really critical parts & farm out the rest of the parts to some of the finest names in the industry than try & do it all & make a mess of it. It's the care that's taken to assemble the parts that really counts though.

GAP make some of the finest rifles on the planet but they don't make a thing themselves. They use the best components they can find & the skill that is used in building the rifles is what makes the end result close to perfection.

My experience with NF has been with recent production & through work, not with plunking down my own cash for a scope. I sure understand the hesitation when thinking about laying out that kind of money & to be honest, I simply can't justify it to myself. I look at the scopes & think that I could buy at least 4 Leupold's (at dealer price) for what one NF would cost me. I'm not in a position where my life demands on my scope, nor do I do enough of the style of shooting that I would benefit from either a NF, S&B or other really high dollar scope.

I'm honestly not knocking the Huskemaw scopes as I only briefly looked at them at the NRA show in Phoenix this year but their weight & the price was enough to dissuade me from considering them. This was especially true when I spent about an hour talking scopes with the folks on the Leupold stand. Some of the new models of the VX-3 line actually come with a voucher for a free custom engraved dial which is a nice touch.

I can see the value with Huskemaw offering to actually shoot the rounds you specify for the dial to ensure that the dial is right, especially if you don't have a range to do that on. But & this is a big one, if you really don't have the time, range or money to shoot out at the ranges the dial gives you the ability to reach out to, you honestly should NOT be considering any kind of really long range shooting at big game animals. It's just not right, at least IMHO to do that.

Tom, nice to talk about this with you & hope you have more info than when you started! Best, George.
 
I wanna know if that dial is right at the bottom of the mountain, how far off is it at the top? What if barometric conditions change in addition to the altitude change? How about then? How about temperature? How far off is it when I go from Africa to Alaska? What if you wanted to shoot more than one type or weight of bullet out of that rifle? Guess you would need another set of turrets.

If you watch this video, you will hear them say it is "calibrated to the true BC". There is NO true BC. Everytime conditions change, I guess you slap on a new turret. Better bring a couple dozen along...........



If you truly want to shoot long range with the utmost precision, carry around an ex-bal calculator to go with your standard duplex and M1's, as the Huskemaw has no real world advantage over either, yet several disadvantages, IMO.......

http://www.perry-systems.com/palm.htm
 
I can see using 1/3 minute clicks, they made an even 20moa per revolution
which is fast. And seeing mil scopes in 1/10 mil clicks are .36" @ 100 and
have a very popular following they shouldn't pose a problem. But looking at
the 100.00 price for a 6.00 dial I would believe the scope is no better deal.
 
There is no "gimmick" available that will allow a shooter to avoid doing the 'work' before a long range shot. As stated above, data specific to each shot needs to be accounted & corrected for. And that simply can't be done accurately with a reticle or turrets based on constants...

Period.
 
I guess the older I get, the more skeptical I get. I have seen a bunch of companies come and go over the years. That is why I sometimes seem skeptical about companies when they offer life time warranties. And when they demand absolute top dollar for their product(and their warranty).

So the first thing I look for when these companies demand top dolar is longevity(how long have they been around), and do they control the production of their product. The only real way to control the prduction of the product is if you make it yourself. If you are buying parts from someone else then how can you have any control of the supply chain?? It just isn't possible. You are at their mercy.

When you look at established companies like Leupold, or Zeiss, or Swarovski you see both longevity and a company that controls their own destiny. That is the only point I am trying to make. IF NF lost their supply of glass then no matter what, the lifetime warranty would be worthless. Or if they lower their standards in a few years(like that never happens) to maximize profits(which is exactly what some shooter are accusing Leupold of doing right now---including me).

I was a bit skeptical about the Huskemaw scope myself. I was just wondering if anyone had any direct experience with them.

On a side note. We as Americans have accepted inferior products that are imported from foreign countries and made by cheap labor. That is a national problem that is farther widespread than just the sporting goods business. Although most of the sporting goods business has went overseas.

I would love to see an American mfr. step and take the quality first attitude. In an American made product. But where are they?? Instead they are all worried about making the fast buck. And I hate to say it but I think even Leupold is going in that direction. Even the "Winchester" is becoming a foreign importer. How sad is that?? My 1886 Winchester was made in Japan, and my new Browning 1885 Low Wall was made in Japan. Tom.
 
First off, 1/3 MOA adjustments are not to coarse for field shooting to 1K-Been there and done that.
Let's consider two different ranges: 500 and 1,000 yards. Many scopes used for long range hunting have 1/4 MOA turret adjustments.
One MOA at 500 yards is approximately 5.2 inches, so ¼ MOA is 1.3 inches.
One third MOA at 500 yards is 1.7 inches.
The difference is .4 of an inch at 500 yards.
One MOA at 1,000 yards is 10.47 inches.
One quarter MOA at 1,000 yards is 2.6 inches, while 1/3 MOA at 1,000 yards is 3.49 inches (say 3.5").
The difference between the two is .9 of an inch or 9/10 of an inch.

Which one of you can truly discern 9/10" point of impact change, when shooting one cold bore shot at 1,000 yards in field conditions? If you can, that is outstanding, but I know I am not that good.
Terrain and wind conditions are much more of an issue for me in the field or on the bench at 1,000 yards.
With the load I listed earlier, I changed the "sight adjustment specifications" in Exbal:
1/10 MOA adjustment and at 1,000 yards it would be 22.80 MOA
1/8 MOA adjustment it would be 22.88 MOA
¼ MOA it would be 22.75 MOA
1/3 MOA and the adjustment would be 23 MOA
The 1/3 MOA scope in this instance would be .12 MOA different than the 1/8 MOA scope or .20 MOA from the 1/10 MOA scope.
The ¼ MOA is .05 from the 1/10 MOA scope and .13 MOA from the 1/8 MOA scope.

So, when does the 1/3 MOA scope or the ¼ MOA scope become to coarse for long range hunting?
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I am convinced that the Huskemaw 5-20 LR rifle scope is sufficient for 1,000 yard kills, given the cartridge/bullet combo is capable and the one running it is skilled, under good conditions.

I have a Huskemaw optic and have viewed it comparably with NXS, new VX-3, Mark 4, and the S-3 Sightron.

The NF is made by the same company that makes Huskemaw, that is why there is such a similarity.
Huskemaw scope is also slightly lighter than the comparable NF. Both are made by the premium OEM manufacture in Japan.

Huskemaw has a zero stop which is standard in its scope, not extra cost.
All turrets are not created equal. The biggest difference in the Huskemaw turret is the built in wind compensation. When you dial the range, the corresponding wind hold is right there on the turret-No need to look elsewhere. Then you use the reticle to hold off or you can dial your wind if you are so disposed.

The last point that many fail to understand is that with the right cartridge/bullet, the variations from changing conditions is very small. Here's a rule of thumb for the 7mm Rem Mag (Berger VLD).

Correction for every 1000' or 20 deg temp difference:

At 1000 Yards, 1 click (about 3 inches)
At 750 Yards, 1/2 click (about 1.25 inches)
At 500 Yards, no change.

So you can use the same turret for most of your hunting conditions-IF you wanted too. OR you can get a 1/3 MOA turret for the Huskemaw-I have one.

Here is an example of how to use your Huskemaw turret in different conditions. We will call our hunter Joe:

Let's say the original Huskemaw RFBC is customized for a 200 yard zero, 1,000 feet elevation and 75 degrees, 50% humidity. It will take 16.25 MOA for "Joe Hunter" to connect at 800 yards.

Joe has been practicing at home and has become very proficient. He is preparing to travel to the Big Horns in Wyoming for an elk hunt in the fall.
He has determined the conditions where the elk hang out are 9,000 feet above sea level, 27 degrees, and 20% humidity.
He knows bullet flight is going to change, but how much?

Joe has several options.
He can order another RFBC turret for the conditions he will hunt in.
Joe could also order a 1/3 MOA turret cap from Best of the West that is a typical MOA turret cap, listed in MOA from 0-20 MOA.
On a side note, if you are constantly switching loads or you continually move your Huskemaw scope from gun to gun, the traditional turret listed in MOA is something you will want for sure.
A third option is for Joe to use his existing Huskemaw RFBC if he so chooses.
In the new conditions at 800 yards, it only takes 15 MOA. Joe's maximum range under ideal conditions is 800 yards.
The difference in vertical drop is 1.25 MOA or approximately 10 inches. Joe can determine the amount of adjustment that is needed at, say, 3/4 of his max expected range, which we will say is 600 yards. The difference at 600 yards between the two different conditions is .62 MOA. Joe can re-zero at 600 yards; this is simple to do even in the field. Just use a coin or cartridge case to turn and remove the flat silver screw on the top of the turret cap. Then move the turret cap 2 clicks (2/3 MOA or .66 MOA) and replace the cap. Total time spent…15 seconds. Joe's scope/gun/load combo now will be in the kill zone of his elk out to his maximum distance in good conditions.
Of course, Joe will confirm his zeros once he gets to his neighbor's house in the Big Horns.

Of all the people who have made comments on this thread, how many have actually used this optic and have followed the detailed instructions to get a field shooting confirmed RFBC Turret from Huskemaw?


 
Thanks XP. That is what I was looking for.

I am considering this scope for a 22-250 rifle that will be used for ground hog hunting. Conditions will rarely change. And I imagine my max distance for hunting would be 700 to 800 yards. However the rifle will be shot to 1,000 yards at our range.

It sounds like the turret system would work for this function. And under the conditions(elevation and weather) of ground hog hunting. Tom.
 
The mere fact that the number 10 is not evenly divided by the number 3 is what makes me not like the 1/3 moa thing. It is however by .25(4) and .125(8). If I was standing in front of you and said "divide 40 by 10" you would quickly return an answer of "4". Same as if I told you to divide it by 8, you would quickly say 5. If I told you to divide it by .333(3), your answer wouldn't come as quickly.........
 
[/quote] He knows bullet flight is going to change, but how much?

Joe has several options.
He can order another RFBC turret for the conditions he will hunt in.
Joe could also order a 1/3 MOA turret cap from Best of the West that is a typical MOA turret cap, listed in MOA from 0-20 MOA.
On a side note, if you are constantly switching loads or you continually move your Huskemaw scope from gun to gun, the traditional turret listed in MOA is something you will want for sure.
A third option is for Joe to use his existing Huskemaw RFBC if he so chooses.
In the new conditions at 800 yards, it only takes 15 MOA. Joe's maximum range under ideal conditions is 800 yards.
The difference in vertical drop is 1.25 MOA or approximately 10 inches. Joe can determine the amount of adjustment that is needed at, say, 3/4 of his max expected range, which we will say is 600 yards. The difference at 600 yards between the two different conditions is .62 MOA. Joe can re-zero at 600 yards; this is simple to do even in the field. Just use a coin or cartridge case to turn and remove the flat silver screw on the top of the turret cap. Then move the turret cap 2 clicks (2/3 MOA or .66 MOA) and replace the cap. Total time spent…15 seconds. Joe's scope/gun/load combo now will be in the kill zone of his elk out to his maximum distance in good conditions.
Of course, Joe will confirm his zeros once he gets to his neighbor's house in the Big Horns.
[/quote]


Ernie, I guess this is what makes my point exactly. After Joe has figgered out his $1000 scope is now gonna be 10" off and is done exploring all his options, and figgerin' all his new data out, and rezoin' his Huskemaw to the new conditions, or buying another turret for another $100, or whatever......It just ain't worth it to this cowboy. He has accomplished NOTHING that a standard duplex/target turrets won't do just as easily for less money. The Huskemaw is tuned for 1 BC under 1 set of conditions. As we all know neither are a constant.........
 
Let's take this in a different direction, Ernie. Tell me what a Huskemaw will do that any number of decent quality target scopes with standard duplexes and a verified drop chart will not do just as well (and some for a lot less money).......
 
2MG,
"He has accomplished NOTHING that a standard duplex/target turrets won't do just as easily for less money. The Huskemaw is tuned for 1 BC under 1 set of conditions. As we all know neither are a constant........."

I think most are aware of your passion for the standard duplex and turning turrets
grin.gif


What scope are you thinking about that has side focus, Zero Stop, 30MM Tube, plenty of MOA for LR shooting, with magnification to 20x (and it includes a custom turret cap. The 1/3 MOA cap may actually come with the scope in the future)that is so much cheaper that the general public can go to the store or order on the web and buy?

Can you get a scope like you want cheaper? No doubt, but some do not want to use what you prefer.

Some people prefer to use other ways to "skin the cat."

I do understand what barometric pressure changes to the impact of a bullet.
I have Exbal both on my PC and on my pocket PC, and I have a couple of Kestrels: 3500 & 4000.
The Huskemaw is a really good piece of glass, hunter friendly, reliable turrets and has a very functional reticle.
And, if you so desired you can get a standard 1/3 MOA turret.

I shoot all three ways:
Dot or plex reticle and turn turrets.
Reticle like Leupold's TMR, NF's NPR1 or Holland's ART
Last but not least, systems like the Huskemaw.

It is NOT hard to make adjustments in the field with any of the systems, when the conditions change.

Most of the time the conditions are NOT significant enough to warrant a huge change in trajectory.

Wind doping in the field is going to be a lot bigger factor than the other issues. This involves the hunter more than it does his optic.



 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunLet's take this in a different direction, Ernie. Tell me what a Huskemaw will do that any number of decent quality target scopes with standard duplexes and a verified drop chart will not do just as well (and some for a lot less money).......

1. Once you are set-up it is faster than checking a drop chart and you never have to get off of the gun to check. I use drop charts with my other systems, and this is quick and handy. Also, you do not have to worry about losing or misplacing your drop chart (I usually have 3 with me
grin.gif
)
2. Zero Stop
3. The reticle allows you to reticle range quickly.
4. The reticle allows for 1 MOA hold-offs or 2 MOA hold-offs depending whether you are on 20X or 10X (no dialing required)

More than anything else, is that some people just want to hunt and shoot differently than you do.
 
Side focus, zero stop, 30mm tube, and even 20x are not requirements for long range shooting. They are options, if one wants to pay for them, so be it. I can take a Weaver V-16, which has NONE of the above options on a 20 moa rail and do the same things for $350 OTD. Do you disagree? I hope not, cuz I've done 'em.

My main point here, is that unless you use an ex-bal program, which just so happens to be THE SAME exact thing that they use to customize your Huskemaw, unless you shoot under the exact same conditions(or close) all the time, you are NO further ahead of the game, just out more money.

You said yourself, the Huskemaw would have to be reset or ballistics recalculated, or another turret purchased under different conditions. I fail to see how this is an advantage. Under different conditions, the guy with the Huskemaw is in the exact same boat as the guy with the duplex, and real world conditions will need to be figgered by each to execute with precision. Do you disagree with this also?
 
If you can do the same thing with a Weaver V-16 then why would anyone ever buy a Leupold or a NF scope??

You got me on that one?? I better take a look at the Weaver scopes. I did look at one of the new Weaver 5-20's but they were also $1,000(almost). Tom.
 
Just making a point.I shoot mainly Leupolds, but I've known Weaver Classic V's and T's to track right nicely. Far better than anything in their price range.......
 
Is the Weaver a fixed power scope?
I don't keep up with the cost of the Weaver optics.

I said, I use Exbal.
I do not think the software that BOTW uses is Gerald's.

Off Topic: Gerald is a super gentleman, always willing to help shooters.

If you know the condition change, it is easy to use the current Turret you have (yes, you make an adjustment, when needed), and then you are back to range it, dial the distance, dope wind pull the trigger-Assuming good form and rest.

No matter what system one uses, you should always recheck zeros after travel.

I think the advantage or the difference people see with the system that Huskemaw uses, is that once adjustments are made, they like/prefer the simplicity of dialing the distance (NOT MOA or MILS) and having 1 MOA lines on the horizontal line for quick wind doping.

For the last year plus, when I have been talking to people who are interested about LR shooting, and I explain, the three different ways it can be done, a lot of people will prefer having a customized cap/dialing the distance or using a reticle (Where the MIL or MOA is internally listed) that requires little if no turret twisting if one so desired.

Turing turrets with a dot or duplex reticle has been coming in last.
FWIW-I have more scopes that require turret turning than I do the Huskemaw's or scope with Holland's ART in them.
 
V's are variables and T's are fixed X target scopes. Excellent values for the money, in term of glass, toughness, and repeatability IME.

Not sure which particular ballistics program they use, but the factors in the equation remain the same.

I could see people liking dialing in mere yardages on their turrets as opposed to mils or moa, I guess. It's just what I'm used to and it seems so simple to me.

I've no problems with what guys use or like or how much money they cost. As long as they know how to use the equipment and don't think it's going to turn them into the next Carlos Hathcock or David Tubb overnight.........
 
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