Rifle and scope suggestions welcomed...

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supawabb

New member
First off, I am a new member and this is my first post.

I have done some research on the net here in my attempt to find the answers to my questions which have lead me more confused and puzzled than satisfied.

I really don't know much at all about rifles and scope so please bear with me here.

I am looking for a small calibre rifle for varmint (gopher, skunk) and coyote shooting. Over the last few weeks, many of the reviews I have come across suggest a Savage 12 BVSS in a 22-250 with a 50 grain bullet (Barnes VLC or Berger & Hornady) for speed and accuracy. As for a scope, I have read that the Bushnell Elite 3200 and 4200 would be great matches with this rifle.

I am located in Saskatchewan, Canada and we have more than our fair share of gophers and coyotes up here.

I would like something capable of 1/2" groupings and 250-300 yards.

I am looking for any and all other suggestions for both rifle and scopes because as I mentioned, I do not know much at all about these topics... yet
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Thank you
 
Welcome to the forum. 1/2" groups at 300 yds might be a little unrealistic, 1/2" at 100 is probably a little more realistic, as I assume you are a novice shooter also. 1/2" at 100 will kill plenty of the varmints mentioned. You may get better groups than that, but honestly you probably don't need them. The Savage you mentioned is a good choice for the purpose you are intending to use it. Good luck,and don't hesitate to ask any and all questions here, you will certainly get a wide assortment of opinions.
 
with all the reading I have done on the Savage 12 BVSS... many state that right out of the box, with a good scope and the 'right' ammo that 1/4" grouping at 100 yards are easily attainable. So I figure 1/2" then at 200 and I'll up to 5'8"s for 300.

Just not sure which other makes and calibers would be good or better choices or scopes.
 
A rifle is an individual preferance. Seems like you have decided on the caliber. A Savage is regarded as a very accurate rifle out of the box. Some perfer Remington, Winchester, Tikka, Howa, CZ, and the list goes on and on. All the ones I mentioned are very accurate rifles. 5/8ths inch groups at 300 yards is probaky not going to happen with a production rifle. 2 to 2.5 is going to be more realistic. Figure how much you want to spend and go from there. The scopes mentioned will do the job for you. Also look at Nikon, Leuopold. Stick to name brand quality glass and you won't be sorry later. What about scope power? Your going to get all kinds of suggestions there. Out to 300 yards a 3x9, 2.5x10, 4x12 will do the job. Good luck and welcome. Get ready because after you get the first one more are sure to follow.
 
Another thing besides accuracy is weight. I have a 12FV in a .204, Its alot of rifle to carry around all day. May be another deciding point for your purchase. Good luck.
 
Originally Posted By: supawabbwith all the reading I have done on the Savage 12 BVSS... many state that right out of the box, with a good scope and the 'right' ammo that 1/4" grouping at 100 yards are easily attainable.

Well, good luck with that. I have had the FVSS and around 1/2" at 100 was about as good as it would do. As noted above, that is more than good enough for what you're asking it to do, and it's also better than any of my other rifles will do (or at least as far as my patience will do- see next). That accuracy was obtained after a fair amount of reloading and ammo testing, too. You might get lucky and find the right gun and the right ammo immediately but I think most of our experiences will say that your goal is not "easily obtainable."

Also, IMHE, you can't automatically extrapolate 100 yd group out to infinity as they'll often start falling apart past a certain distance as velocities drop and air drag starts having an effect. In addition, some loads are more wind resistant than others and the one that groups well in a wind-less vacuum may or may not be the one that bucks wind. The only way to know all this stuff about a particular gun and ammo is to shoot in real conditions at real distances.

Scope on the rifle was Leupold 4.5x14. No complaints there.

The gun was given to me by a prairie dog hunter that shoots on our place. His son borrowed it every year when they came out. When his son got older and started talking about getting his own rifle, I just handed that rifle to him and said "Here ya go!". It was the right thing to do, I thought. I don't shoot p-dogs that much myself, anyway and when I do, a Savage .22LR is my tool of choice.

In any case, it was a great gun. If you get one, and do get 1/4" groups, post pictures!

 
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supawabb, do you have any experiance with rifle shooting? A 1/4 MOA rifle is VERY rare especially in a factory gun. 1 to 1 1/2 " is about as good as it normally gets with a factory gun and ammo. Handloading improves that some, but it also takes alot of practice to be able to shoot to the weapons capability from a bench. Then even more to shoot from field positions. For deer hunting the distance your able to hit a paper plate (size of vital area) shows your max distance. Varmints have a considerably smaller vital area.

Oneryolfart357 is right a marketed "varmint rifle" is alot to tote all day. Might want to look for a light to midweight offering. With the beautifull furs up there you might want to look into a caliber that will not exit the animal such as one of the 17's. Thats my next toy. Good Luck...Dave
 
Of all the factory level rifles on the market, Savage will hold their own when it comes to the accuracy department...

You need to determine how many rounds you will most likely be shooting at any one string...As stated, the rifle you mentioned will be getting pretty heavy after a couple hours of carrying it around, regardless of your size, age, etc..

I take a Savage 116 FSS (lightweight pencil barrel.204) as a backup for Prairie Dogs for something to shoot while my others are cooling off and have no problem with it as long as I pace my shooting..

I also reload, so my ammunition is tailored to each rifle and while I can shoot 1/4" groups at 100yds, also as stated previously, as the distance increases, the groups tend to dissipate as to tightness and consistency...a lot of factors are involved in it..
 
Five eighths of an inch at three hundred yards would be a tough chore. One thing to keep in mind is your choice of glass. A crosshair will cover more than that at those ranges. If you cant see it, you sure wont hit it. A good few tack drivers ive seen sure fell apart once shot. Its easier to tell you a rifle is a half inch shooter than it is to show you. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Since it doesn't sound like you are all that familiar with rifles or shooting, my best advice would be to start off with a Savage, or a Stevens, which is made by Savage but doesn't have the new accutrigger. But the model you mentioned wouldn't get my vote. Add a scope and ammo to that rifle and you have a 12 lb rig to carry around all day. They have plenty of models that weigh 6.5-7.5 pounds. As for caliber, new shooter, new gun, .223 would get my vote. It's easy to get into reloading should you wish to, lots of ammo/bullet choices, lots of surplus ammo to practice with, and plenty effective out to 300 yds. Sub 1" groups are normal with these rifles. 5/8" groups isn't going to happen at 300 yds. Unfortunately the math with shooting doesn't work that way. Too many variables.



Yes, the Bushnell 3200 and 4200 are great scopes. I've got two 3200's with firefly reticle and am very happy with them.

Half the fun of buying a gun is the search.
 
Supawabb,I hope you are not discouraged by the posts made here. I am sure that alot of people have told you that their gun will shoot gnats off a flies azz at amazing distances. Alot of that type of talk is embellished a little, sometimes alot. The Savage rifle you mentioned is fine for your stated purposes, a little heavy, but you are the one who has to carry it, the accuracy that you will obtain from it will be good,As far as scopes go the Bushnells mentioned are nice, my personal preference would be a Leupold but that is my preference. As for a cost difference on them, that is available on the net. Good luck.
 
I agree with CJW, if I were you I would lean towards the .223. Even though my varmint rifle is a 22-250, and I like it, I sometimes wish I would've gone with the .223 for cheaper shooting and more ammo options off the shelf. Also if you are shooting alot, the barrel life is longer that the hotter shooting 22-250. If you're shooting pdogs or gophers, chances are that you will be shooting a pretty decent amount. The .223 will keep the barrel from overheating as fast and the wallet won't get burned up as bad either! As far as weight of the rifle, do yourself a huge favor and LISTEN TO THESE GUYS! My rig is a varmint weight, 12+lbs. I'm a young, fit guy, and it still gets pretty tiring. I wish I would've done some more research and gotten a lighter weight rig now. I have had my eye on a T3 Tikka, I have read amazing things on these rigs and the price is great. The scope suggestions you've gotten are very sound advice. Oh and one more thing, do you plan on reloading or not? May help some with your decision.
 
I think you need to figure on what your price range is. Then how you will hunt. If the thought of lugging around a "heavier" rifle to stands for coyotes isn't appealing maybe think a little lighter, but if you don't mind weight much then go for it. I would consider a Savage if I was buying a new bolt action off the shelf so to speak. I like Remingtons myself, but I like Savages after them along with most of the other guns listed here. The Stevens isn't a bad gun, but it isn't cheap without good reason, but the action isn't the reason. I almost bought one till I found a Rem700 used from a buddy.

Also, any of the scopes mentioned are generally sturdy, clear, and consistent.
 
Originally Posted By: supawabbwith all the reading I have done on the Savage 12 BVSS... many state that right out of the box, with a good scope and the 'right' ammo that 1/4" grouping at 100 yards are easily attainable. So I figure 1/2" then at 200 and I'll up to 5'8"s for 300.

Just not sure which other makes and calibers would be good or better choices or scopes.

Reading is good, but reality has a very sobering affect on such expectations. These guys know that of which they speak, so I'd read and consider what they say very carefully.

A light breeze can ruin a 1/4" group at 100 yards.

If it were me I'd likely buy a sporter weight .223 and do some shooting. It'll make a fine all around varmint rig, and you can use it to decide what future firearms might interest you.

Daryl
 
It is nice to see another canuck on the forum.

I am from western manitoba, so the conditions we would hunt predators in would be very similar. savage makes a good rifle, but i would reconsider the model you have suggested. when it is -30C and the snow is three feet deep, the last thing you want to do is carry around a 10lb plus rifle.

As far as caliber, you are on the right track. i personally shoot a .204 and a .243. other guys i hunt with use .223 and 22-250. all great calibers.

as far as optics i have an Elite 3200 on my .204. it is a 4-12x40. it is not as bright as other scopes i have. i think the raingaurd coatings has something to do with that. i also have a bushnell legend that is much brighter. almost as bright as my nikon monarch

I would consider a sporter style rifle, and don't worry about group size. almost all of these calibers in a production rifle are capable of taking coyotes and long ranges. even the simple stevens.
 
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