So.......WHAT IF?

tt35

New member
Went out calling with Verminator2 last Firday. We called in a nice male on our second stand. I had a shot at about 175 yards but let him come. He stopped at about 130 yards but was behind some sage from me and V2 took the shot dropping him with his .243AI. OK, enough of the hunting story. Here's the thing....I was carrying my AR in .204. When we got done with the hunt I cleared the chamber and found that my bullet had caught on the feed rail or something and had been pushed back into the case. So....what if I had taken the shot? It didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling thinking about it.
shocked.gif


Anyone hed any experience with this happening or hear of someone who has? Any ideas on what would have happened had I pulled the trigger?

This has actually happened before at the bench. I saw what was going on and took the round out. Is there something I can do or have done to my upper to keep this from happening. I don't want to switch bullets as I'm using my 35 grain Berger fur loads and would rather not change.

tt35
 
Yeah, need some input from the GURUs. Hey, I'm lovin' the Larue mount. I have it on this AR with a Bushnell 2.5-16X stuck in it. Very tight.
 
I would think nothing other than possibly a flier. It's not like it was crimped in or something that would cause a pressure spike.
 
The bullet was actually pushed all the way into the case. I'm not sure if it would line up correctly to get down the bore w/o jamming????
 
tt35, That sounds similar to some 75gr A-Max .223s that I loaded for the M4 that I used to have...

I had to load them with the ogive below the case mouth to get them to fit in the magazine.... I fired five of them and got the best group that I had ever gotten out of that rifle with a 1/7 twist barrel....but like you, I didn't feel really good about using them..

I'm reasonably sure that your situation has happened to several non-crimped AR loads and the shooters didn't realize it due the the bullet functioning pretty much as it should with the only potential problem being a flyer or similar...

I seldom crimp any of my AR loads, whether .204 or .223 and have never found a problem with the bullets being set back from the original seating, but then I may be one of those that just wasn't aware of the incident..
 
From experience- the shot would have sounded somewhat quieter than normal, and you probly would not have hit him at 50 yards, let alone 130.

This happened to me with some nickel plated brass that would not size correctly due to brittle brass and springback giving me crappy neck tension.

It seems like sorting out your feeding issue would be job number one. Then just as a precaution a lee factory crimp die would be extra insurance. Thats what I use, and its worked well for me, but Im sure someone will chime in about how they are crap.
 
I'm honestly not sure. I primarily use two ten-round mags so I'm sure all the problems have been using them but I've rarely used my other mags.
 
I've been milling this over and over, the question what if........

there is a possibility that you would have had a case rupture, which could have been catastrophic. I also think by putting a small crimp on the bullet(very small) it might take care of this problem, but of course its hard to diagnose without actually seeing it. I spoke with a couple friends who work at Dillon Precision about this and they also said it was a good thing you didn't fire the bullet.
 
Maybe nothing would have happened-Maybe. But that is a big maybe. I put a light crimp with a Lee crimp die(can't remember if it is a taper crimp or factory crimp die) on all my loads that I run in my ARs. It makes me feel a little more comfortable in the slam bang semiauto action. TnTnTn
 
Big maybe scott. Unknowingly I shot maybe 12 or 13 out of 50 or so like this back when the earth was cooling and ar's werent all the rage. coudnt figure out why some were quieter. no ruptures, just a couple FTE's

basically the bullet gets shoved back out
when the primer/powder ignition shoves it back into place with a varying amount of possibly burning powder blowing by the bullet before it gets back into the cartridge neck. There is a possibility for increased pressure with the bullet so far back though, so maybe Iwas just doggone lucky. Certainly, not a "good" scenario in any regard. Love AR's- friggin hate feeding issues.

TT35 Get a known good clip, then try it out. might be an out of spec magazine, not unheard of. I swear I can remember something about 204's not being great in ar platform- Anyone else ever hear that?
 
Originally Posted By: yotenaylorBig maybe scott. Unknowingly I shot maybe 12 or 13 out of 50 or so like this back when the earth was cooling and ar's werent all the rage. coudnt figure out why some were quieter. no ruptures, just a couple FTE's

basically the bullet gets shoved back out
when the primer/powder ignition shoves it back into place with a varying amount of possibly burning powder blowing by the bullet before it gets back into the cartridge neck. There is a possibility for increased pressure with the bullet so far back though, so maybe Iwas just doggone lucky. Certainly, not a "good" scenario in any regard. Love AR's- friggin hate feeding issues.

TT35 Get a known good clip, then try it out. might be an out of spec magazine, not unheard of. I swear I can remember something about 204's not being great in ar platform- Anyone else ever hear that?

I agree, its one of those "what ifs" . I'd just hate to be the guy who says shoot it and someone has half their upper embedded in their face. Seen it when a friends wife cleaned his reloading room, putting the 3 different powder in one canister because there was only a little in each. pistol/rifle powder doesn't mix well.

Definately get a known good mag, you might also have to polish the feed ramps of the barrel extention. Good luck to you.
 
When I first aquired my AR, I would remove the round from the chamber after hunting, place it back in the Magazine, and re-chamber the same round when I would go out again.

Unbeknownst to me, this constant re-chambering was in fact slowly pushing the bullet back into the case.

The result was a strange popping sound when fired and the point of impact was two (2) feet off at 15 yards.

The extractor was also unable to fully extract the case and it jammed my rifle when I really needed it.

Needless to say, I no longer do multiple re-chambers of the same bullet.
 
I had a similar issue with 45gr white box winchesters in my Oly. The the first round would go off and then as it cycled the next round would catch (I guess in the feed ramp) and shove the bullet into the case. I mean all the way into the case. Those were the only rounds that I ever had a problem with. I guess it was the rough point on the JHP's that would catch and prevent the gun from cycling.


blacksheep
 
You didn't say if they were reloads, or what brand if factory. They aren't
crimped or aren't properly crimped. You always crimp rounds in a semi for
this exact reason. And your gun can and eventually will blow up if it continues
to happen. And take the warning about not re-chambering rounds several times in a semi as well. m2c
 
Thanks for all the ideas and help.

I don't believe this is a recoil issue. It has happened on fresh reloads while working up loads. This is a hollow point bullet (35 grain Bergers). I don't want to change bullets as this is the fur load for the .204. I think Blacksheep's experience parallels mine. It's most likely the bullet tip catching on something and pushing the bullet back completely into the case. They either go all the way into the case or they don't move. Crimping may help but it looks like there is a sharp and significant force that may even push a crimped bullet on a smooth bullet. It sounds like a sharp edge is catching the tip. Is there a way to smooth the edges of the feed ramp? Is that what polishing does?

Thanks again for the input.
 
i have an ar-15 in 204 as well, i have been loading the 40gr bergers and had the same thing happen... they shot fine but were all over the place. they were getting caught so we filed down the feed ramp so it went in smoother and also found out the the cases were not being formed enough... so give both of those a check!
 
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