Who's the better shot?
- Thread starter 2muchgun
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I respect the hunter. I have noticed in several things that I am a part of that there is a big difference between someone who can operate under pressure and who can't. In shooting I have seen guys who are outstanding at bench shooting, and then get in the field and can't hit an animal either because they fold under pressure or a more classic folly is not having a "good rest". Good hunters can just sit on their butt and take a 500 yard shot off of their knees if no rest is available.
Other examples is the Motocross rider who is just plain smoking in practice and then is always toward the back in a race.
Or the 6'3" 220 pound fireman who is in awesome shape, but come fire time use their air bottle up on half the time of the fattest guy on the crew.
The cool headed guys are the ones I admire, and really. . . .there is not a lot of pressure in bench shooting.
Just my $0.02
Ty
Other examples is the Motocross rider who is just plain smoking in practice and then is always toward the back in a race.
Or the 6'3" 220 pound fireman who is in awesome shape, but come fire time use their air bottle up on half the time of the fattest guy on the crew.
The cool headed guys are the ones I admire, and really. . . .there is not a lot of pressure in bench shooting.
Just my $0.02
Ty
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:. . .there is not a lot of pressure in bench shooting.
I wouldn't say that, there's a huge amount of mental pressure and you had better not get "twitchy" if you want to win. Some guys take that sport very seriously.
Other than hunting the big bears in brush, I'd say there's not much actual "pressure" involved in hunting North American game, unless you're broke, it's the end of the season, and the freezer's empty. It can get pretty tense then.
But you have a point about performing in fast-developing situations. It's just a different skill set, but both require dedication and a certain mind set to be successful.
I wouldn't say that, there's a huge amount of mental pressure and you had better not get "twitchy" if you want to win. Some guys take that sport very seriously.
Other than hunting the big bears in brush, I'd say there's not much actual "pressure" involved in hunting North American game, unless you're broke, it's the end of the season, and the freezer's empty. It can get pretty tense then.
But you have a point about performing in fast-developing situations. It's just a different skill set, but both require dedication and a certain mind set to be successful.
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Perhaps pressure is not the right word. I'm sure you have seen the guy with "buck fever". That's what I am talking about.
On a bench you have all the time in the world. In the field you have no stable rest, limited time (usually), and the "holy sh1t I have never seen anything that big in my life factor".
On a bench you have all the time in the world. In the field you have no stable rest, limited time (usually), and the "holy sh1t I have never seen anything that big in my life factor".
In BR you don't actually have "all the time in the world" because matches are timed. You have to hold off and wait for conditions to come back, and the clock is ticking. You also get distracted by the muzzle blast from other guns, and all sorts of possibilities to get distracted. It is pressure.
Some hunters don't realize that Benchrest shooters have contributed to the accuracy evolution of firearms. They tinker and experiment to find out what makes guns more accurate, and it leads to better rifles. Look how hunting rifles keep getting more precise/accurate. Its fun to experiment and spend your money on this stuff.
The truth is they are two separate games. One is precision the other is accuracy. Precision is consistenly getting the tightest groups. Accuracy is hitting at what you aimed at, thats the hunter. Bencrest is both, but its at a fixed distance, so your mainly competing with the wind and other environmental factors. Hunters compete with environmental factors, hold and moving targets and varied ranges. So a hunter has alot more things to concentrate on to pull off the shot. Alot of luck are involved, but good preparation (practice) makes luck happen more frequently.
Some hunters don't realize that Benchrest shooters have contributed to the accuracy evolution of firearms. They tinker and experiment to find out what makes guns more accurate, and it leads to better rifles. Look how hunting rifles keep getting more precise/accurate. Its fun to experiment and spend your money on this stuff.
The truth is they are two separate games. One is precision the other is accuracy. Precision is consistenly getting the tightest groups. Accuracy is hitting at what you aimed at, thats the hunter. Bencrest is both, but its at a fixed distance, so your mainly competing with the wind and other environmental factors. Hunters compete with environmental factors, hold and moving targets and varied ranges. So a hunter has alot more things to concentrate on to pull off the shot. Alot of luck are involved, but good preparation (practice) makes luck happen more frequently.
Don't misread. I never said that BR shooters are little girls that sit down to pee. I just said that between the two I respect the hunter better.
I have played both games, and they are very different. IMO there is not a lot of pressure in BR. I respect and appreciate what the BR guys do for the community in general.
I think you can teach someone how to shoot on the bench better. The guy who just consistently makes the crazy impossible shot in the field. . . .you can't learn that. It just is.
I have played both games, and they are very different. IMO there is not a lot of pressure in BR. I respect and appreciate what the BR guys do for the community in general.
I think you can teach someone how to shoot on the bench better. The guy who just consistently makes the crazy impossible shot in the field. . . .you can't learn that. It just is.
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:Alot of luck are involved, but good preparation (practice) makes luck happen more frequently.
Very true. If you can't shoot a respectable group from the bench, the chances of making kills in the field are pretty much zero at any kind of range.
I'd much rather hunt with someone that spends a lot (or even all) of their time at the bench than someone that hasn't fired his rifle in the last six months. One guy's serious and the other one is clueless.
Very true. If you can't shoot a respectable group from the bench, the chances of making kills in the field are pretty much zero at any kind of range.
I'd much rather hunt with someone that spends a lot (or even all) of their time at the bench than someone that hasn't fired his rifle in the last six months. One guy's serious and the other one is clueless.
Originally Posted By: Evil_Lurker ...If you can't shoot a respectable group from the bench, the chances of making kills in the field are pretty much zero at any kind of range.
I'd much rather hunt with someone that spends a lot (or even all) of their time at the bench than someone that hasn't fired his rifle in the last six months. One guy's serious and the other one is clueless.
Well... I'm not trying to pick on anyone. And I realize that there are always various shades and exceptions to everything. But my hunting partner of more than 25 years, Tim, absolutely defies everything you just said. He has not shot a group off a bench or done any form of "target" shooting in I don't know how many years. At least ten years. Probably closer to fifteen years. And I bet you could count all the groups he has EVER fired off a bench on your fingers and toes. He really just can't stand shooting targets and will freely admit that he is terrible at it. To him, shooting targets is worse than watching paint dry, it's more like having to paint the outside of the house. Spending free time wasting money on ammo to shoot targets is an alien concept to him. He is "that guy" you always hear about that claims he can't shoot good at targets but can shoot great when it counts. He checks zero by shooting at a dirt clod or a rock off the hood of the truck. And he only does that if he misses a couple shots he thinks he should not have. Sometimes it might be a couple of years in between those two minute "zero" sessions off the hood of the truck. Actually, for quite a few years he has been shooting my rifles most of the time and just doesn't even think about zeroing them
.
He's a pretty good live game shot in the field though. Thoroughly competent, to say the least. Even when he hasn't picked up a rifle for six months or more.
Really, as far as that goes, Tim and I both have only fired a rifle once, since our last coyote hunt which I think was in Feb. or maybe March. When we get out calling again in October, I bet we do just fine killing called coyotes. Despite the fact that we basically have not used a rifle in six months and I haven't fired a group on over a year and he hasn't fired one in probably fifteen years. But, then too, I'm speaking of shooting called coyotes. Those shots are mostly slam dunks, so it's not like we need much of a warm up for them.
- DAA
I'd much rather hunt with someone that spends a lot (or even all) of their time at the bench than someone that hasn't fired his rifle in the last six months. One guy's serious and the other one is clueless.
Well... I'm not trying to pick on anyone. And I realize that there are always various shades and exceptions to everything. But my hunting partner of more than 25 years, Tim, absolutely defies everything you just said. He has not shot a group off a bench or done any form of "target" shooting in I don't know how many years. At least ten years. Probably closer to fifteen years. And I bet you could count all the groups he has EVER fired off a bench on your fingers and toes. He really just can't stand shooting targets and will freely admit that he is terrible at it. To him, shooting targets is worse than watching paint dry, it's more like having to paint the outside of the house. Spending free time wasting money on ammo to shoot targets is an alien concept to him. He is "that guy" you always hear about that claims he can't shoot good at targets but can shoot great when it counts. He checks zero by shooting at a dirt clod or a rock off the hood of the truck. And he only does that if he misses a couple shots he thinks he should not have. Sometimes it might be a couple of years in between those two minute "zero" sessions off the hood of the truck. Actually, for quite a few years he has been shooting my rifles most of the time and just doesn't even think about zeroing them
He's a pretty good live game shot in the field though. Thoroughly competent, to say the least. Even when he hasn't picked up a rifle for six months or more.
Really, as far as that goes, Tim and I both have only fired a rifle once, since our last coyote hunt which I think was in Feb. or maybe March. When we get out calling again in October, I bet we do just fine killing called coyotes. Despite the fact that we basically have not used a rifle in six months and I haven't fired a group on over a year and he hasn't fired one in probably fifteen years. But, then too, I'm speaking of shooting called coyotes. Those shots are mostly slam dunks, so it's not like we need much of a warm up for them.
- DAA
old_sparky
New member
I shot on a small bore on a rifle team back in high school. I have killed most of the critters I have shot at. Shotgun, Rifle, Pistol and Bow. Last year out calling I missed a 75ish yard broad side shot with a lot of time and no pressure. Well I figure I needed more practice. (Since moving to the city I don't get in hunting situations as often and cant get drawn anymore). So I bought a 22lr and started shooting small bore Silhouette at a local range that led to shooting Lever action Silhouette and High Power Silhouette. I don't care how good you are or think you are knocking down steel at 500 meters offhand is challenging and humbling. It has been a blast the boy and I can get in some trigger time, laugh at each other and we got to buy more guns. Really I don't think any type of shooting skill is better than another just different strokes for all kind of folks. Broaden your horizon and try them all and get lots of toys to boot. You might even meet some good people in the process.
that's my two cents, Sparky
that's my two cents, Sparky
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:Those shots are mostly slam dunks, so it's not like we need much of a warm up for them.
I like to know my rifle's zeroed before I put in the time to sneak up on a game animal or call in a coyote. It hardly ever requires adjustments, but I just hate sitting there thinking "I wonder?".
I've sighted in on a stump and rocks a couple times myself. Good as anything if you hit it.
I'll just say if I hunt with somebody all day, and they miss a shot and later discover their rifle is shooting 2 feet left because they haven't checked the zero in the last year, I'm gonna consider a new hunting partner. On a coyote, not so much, but on a bull elk on something similar, I'd kinda have a problem with it.
Maybe it's a ex-military thing, I dunno.
Doesn't sound to me like 'ol Tim misses much, so who am I to critisize him? He probably takes good care of his rifle and optics, and that is a huge factor.
I like to know my rifle's zeroed before I put in the time to sneak up on a game animal or call in a coyote. It hardly ever requires adjustments, but I just hate sitting there thinking "I wonder?".
I've sighted in on a stump and rocks a couple times myself. Good as anything if you hit it.
I'll just say if I hunt with somebody all day, and they miss a shot and later discover their rifle is shooting 2 feet left because they haven't checked the zero in the last year, I'm gonna consider a new hunting partner. On a coyote, not so much, but on a bull elk on something similar, I'd kinda have a problem with it.
Maybe it's a ex-military thing, I dunno.
Doesn't sound to me like 'ol Tim misses much, so who am I to critisize him? He probably takes good care of his rifle and optics, and that is a huge factor.
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Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:So I bought a 22lr and started shooting small bore Silhouette at a local range that led to shooting Lever action Silhouette and High Power Silhouette. I don't care how good you are or think you are knocking down steel at 500 meters offhand is challenging and humbling.
I've shot the .22 rifle reduced silhouettes and big bore pistols to 100 yards. I probably had more fun doing that than anything else besides jackrabbits (when they are thick, that's a ball).
That's a great thing to get your son involved in. It teaches all the shooting skills and it's instant, cut-throat competition.Those "fliers" turn into "misses" right quick.
I like that aspect of it a lot.
I've shot the .22 rifle reduced silhouettes and big bore pistols to 100 yards. I probably had more fun doing that than anything else besides jackrabbits (when they are thick, that's a ball).
That's a great thing to get your son involved in. It teaches all the shooting skills and it's instant, cut-throat competition.Those "fliers" turn into "misses" right quick.
I like that aspect of it a lot.
Guess I'll chime in, for what its worth. In todays time, I think we should call it a draw. Reason- We need all the people we can get in the shooting sports. Be it hunting, target, whatever. The more we have, the stronger our group will be. I enjoy shooting off the bench, but love the sport of hunting. Its never been about killing, its all about being outdoors, comradery(sp), good stories, good friends. Just think, if you weren't shooting or hunting, you would have to be home doing honey-do's. JMO
2muchgun
New member
I've a bunch of friends that are hunters, and all but 1 shoot simply to sight in hunting rifles. The other 1 shoots simply because he likes to shoot, although he isn't much of a hunter. He is a cop, and trained with open sight pistols and AR. He also shoots an open sighted traditional style muzzleloader very well.......
Orneryolfart357
New member
Heck...Yoda? Dagobah System? I never watched Star Trek.. Im Lost! I must have my rifles set on Stun !
knockemdown
New member
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunAre you feelin' alright this mornin' Fred. I'll have whatever's in your coffee.........grins
DUDE!
Can't believe you pegged me!
I hardly ever drink coffee, ever. BUT, this morning, the weather sucked (no fishing) & I slept in (7am), so I made myself a french pressed Kona blend for a goof and fired up the Dell...
Well that Kona stuff FIRED ME UP! So I apologize for the 'keyboard caffiene jitters'...
As for jitters while shooting? Personally I had a friggin' egg mentally get the best of me at the EggShoot @ 200yds not 2 hrs after pegging a yote in the melon @ 500+ off stix. It was pretty obvious as to which shot I'd practiced more of. Those eggs are terrifying!
Whateva, I'm still friggin fired up from that Kona FUEL, so I'm driving 250 miles in a minute to go shoot steel tomorrow in the rain. Maybe there is something to this coffee stuff???
Good thread fellas!
DUDE!
Can't believe you pegged me!
I hardly ever drink coffee, ever. BUT, this morning, the weather sucked (no fishing) & I slept in (7am), so I made myself a french pressed Kona blend for a goof and fired up the Dell...
Well that Kona stuff FIRED ME UP! So I apologize for the 'keyboard caffiene jitters'...
As for jitters while shooting? Personally I had a friggin' egg mentally get the best of me at the EggShoot @ 200yds not 2 hrs after pegging a yote in the melon @ 500+ off stix. It was pretty obvious as to which shot I'd practiced more of. Those eggs are terrifying!
Whateva, I'm still friggin fired up from that Kona FUEL, so I'm driving 250 miles in a minute to go shoot steel tomorrow in the rain. Maybe there is something to this coffee stuff???
Good thread fellas!
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:We need all the people we can get in the shooting sports.
Amen to that. Whenever it gets "hot" on here I sit back and remind myself there ain't a better bunch of people around to hang with.
Gotta keep it in perspective.
Amen to that. Whenever it gets "hot" on here I sit back and remind myself there ain't a better bunch of people around to hang with.
Gotta keep it in perspective.
I've known a few[3] people that were. What I call natural shooters. I'm not one of them. These people rarely target shot. But were comfortable with their firearms. As well as very accurate under pressure.
As for under pressure, I remember when I was younger having a coyote or fox out front. I could hear my heart pound. Thought the predator could hear my heart pound as well, LOL!
As for under pressure, I remember when I was younger having a coyote or fox out front. I could hear my heart pound. Thought the predator could hear my heart pound as well, LOL!