Don't torch me but.....

picksbigwagon

New member
I was reading outdoor life and saw an ad for the S&W MP 15-22, the 22 lr built on an AR Lower, or is it built on AR lower? If so, I might have found myself a new squirrel gitter. If not, I will accept my ignorace punishment
 
If its the same one I saw in last weeks cabelas flyer it looks to plastic & to small to be a real AR lower. Especially for $429.
 
What I hear about these rifles is that they are made in China, or Korea or something like that, and are not like the true AR's we have here with dedicated uppers and lowers...more like a pretty cheap casting type rifle, but that they do shoot.

Just don't be mislead that they are a .22 lr upper on a S&W lower receiver.

Hope this helps.

Barry
 
For the money, i would use the Tactical solution dedicated .22lr upper. Very reliable and durable. They make a couple different versions, one looks like a bull barrel with free float tube and the other is identical to an M4.

I have both and they are a hoot!
 
I installed an inexpensive 22 lr bolt carrier in my AR 15. A CMMG conversion kit costs a little over $200. The CMMG 22 bolt carrier fits right into your AR-15 and replaces the 223 bolt carrier. Both 223 and 22 lr use the same diameter bullet so the barrel for the 223 works for the 22 lr. Very easy and inexpensive conversion and lots of fun. Takes about 30 seconds to convert between 223 and 22 lr.
 
We have had a couple M&P's and Colts come through the shop. We've sold a few of both, but I haven't heard any reviews yet. Then again, I don't trust half the stuff the "bubba's" tell me anyway.

The lowers are dedicated 22LR. They're cut out on the inside of the mag well differently than an AR15 lower, to accept the modified 22LR mags. You definitely wouldn't be able to make the lower into a 223 or something else. Conversely, I don't believe you could switch the upper to a standard AR lower either, because the mag won't fit/function in the std AR lower properly.

bownut
 
The Colt version is made in an airsoft factory in Germany and feels like a cheap airsoft gun. It does however function and fires decently.

The S&W version is at least built here in the US and the parts "feel" like a real AR. They are as mentioned before though both dedicated 22 lowers. Everyone thinks they will buy these then just buy a 223 upper later and they are getting over. Nope, not happening.

For my 22 shooting needs I went with the aforementioned CMMG conversion kit for $200.

IF I was going to buy a dedicated 22 AR I would probably go after one of CMMG's.
 
For a complete 22LR "Tacticool rife", the GSG5 is a good one to look at.

I have one and it is very reliable and very accurate for what it is... And muchos fun to shoot...

-BCB
 
Originally Posted By: ninthinning Both 223 and 22 lr use the same diameter bullet so the barrel for the 223 works for the 22 lr.

Maybe not quite......Shooting Times has an article this month that states that a .22 LR bullet is actually .222" as compared to a .223 CALIBER AT .224". One of the reasons to go with a dedicated .22LR. Just sayin'....
 
tt35 is correct, the .22lr and .223/5.56 are not the same diameter. Shooting .22lr in a .223 can be very inaccurate,cause heavy leading problems, and usually dont function very well. When I went to Air Force basic, we used those conversion kits and let me tell you that they sucked. Thats why we had .22lr uppers. I believe that Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks also makes an excellant .22 upper.
 
Originally Posted By: Rich Johnsontt35 is correct, the .22lr and .223/5.56 are not the same diameter. Shooting .22lr in a .223 can be very inaccurate,cause heavy leading problems, and usually dont function very well. When I went to Air Force basic, we used those conversion kits and let me tell you that they sucked. Thats why we had .22lr uppers. I believe that Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks also makes an excellant .22 upper.

Kind of depends what you're after. I have the stainless steel CMMG conversion drop in kit. I can throw any kind of ammo in and no problems. Even the yellow/green remington stuff. With CCI or Federal I group 2.5" or less at 50 yards after unloading on full 25 round magazine. That's all I was looking for though and am happy with it. It's great trigger time on the AR and cheap to get others involved with the black guns.

Besides actual bullet\bore diameter difference between .223 and .22lr, there is also barrel twist (1:14 is typical for 22lr). My 1:9 bushy with a 16" barrel is the gun I use with this kit.
 
Since this has come up several times in the past week;

Gun scribes live in ideal worlds... Bullets and rifles don't. Just a suggestion about what many gun scribes write in monthly rags... Don't buy it all hook, line, and sinker because sometimes it is written in such a manner that it can be misleading at best.... Even for the gun scribes who write it....

The diameter of both the bullets (22LR and .223/5.56NATO) and the barrels to shoot them in are virtually the same within manufacturing tolerances for each. Not all bullets measure exactly 0.224" and not all barrels have exacting bore diameters due to varying manufacturing tolerances.

The Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives (Permanent International Commission for Firearms Testing - commonly abbreviated as C.I.P. or CIP) is an international organization whose current members number 14 countries, mainly European countries. The US is not a formal member of CIP, but for a US manufacturer like Federal or Winchester to sell ammo to a country that is, the US manufacturer has to follow CIP specs.

CIP specs and SAAMI specs often thus follow each other quite closely since SAAMI is a US industry organization which sets largely voluntary manufacturing uniformity standards in the US. CIP is a governmental regulatory organization standard setter with set standards accepted by the member nations that belong. Adherence to one or both of these standards pretty well defines what a certain cartridge/bullet combo looks like and how it performs pressure-wise.

Here is a CIP drawing of the 22LR sporting cartridge and bullet dimensions in inches.

300px-22lr.png


The following is taken directly from a SAAMI technical bulletin concerning the 22LR sporting cartridges and chamber dimensions which can be viewed at the link: On page 12 of the pdf. file, note the nominal bullet diameter in inches - ~0.2255" for 22LR Match ammo. It's the same for 22LR Sporting ammo on Page 13 - again a ~0.2255" diameter bullet. You might also look at the 22 Short and the 22 Long if you shoot them in your rifles or handguns.

Notice also the SAAMI spec barrel bore diameter and groove diameter for 22LR Sporting and Match ammo: 0.217" and 0.222".

http://www.saami.org/Publications/208.pdf

Then real-life reality happens:

The link below provides some actual real life information from a gentleman who knows quite a bit about bullets and bullet swaging. In writing this document, he measured hundreds of 22LR sporting ammunition bullets and he found wide variations in what is produced and sold in the US. His findings might open some eyes who think there is a real meaningful and predictable difference in bullet sizes between 22LR ammo and .223/5.56NATO ammo projectiles.

Of note in the linked document is this quote concerning 22LR ammo : "Out of hundreds of rounds that I eventually wound up checking over several weeks, most of the bulk brands ranged from .224 to .228 diameter on the bullet itself. The boxed brands ranged from .224 to .226."

http://mrpc.oregonshooter.com/old_site/docs/bultip04.pdf

I'm not sure how he marketed it, but Pako Kelly probably made a good living by designing a tool to overcome differences in 22 LR and also in 22 WMR ammo. He recognized what Dave Corbin wrote about and he did something to try to solve the problem of varying bullet diameters and shapes and what effect they have on 22LR accuracy.

If you are shooting the cheapy lead promotional bullets in any good 22LR handgun or rifle, enough shooting will cause them all to lead. Some do it very quickly and others it takes a bit of shooting for it to happen.

-BCB

 
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