racoons with a .177 airgun?
- Thread starter Ducksoup
- Start date
BohunterNY
New member
Thanks man,
I was looking at the Career, sure is a nice gun for bigger game, can't beat the price
Also, check this out: .22 seems plenty of gun for crows close and far/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif darn Russkies got it all figured out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDuodboeSIM&NR=1
I was looking at the Career, sure is a nice gun for bigger game, can't beat the price
Also, check this out: .22 seems plenty of gun for crows close and far/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif darn Russkies got it all figured out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDuodboeSIM&NR=1
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CoyoteRayG
New member
You might want to look into the legality of catch and release. I read somewhere that there are laws against transplanting animals... just something that came to mind when I was reading the thread, I may be WAY off.
azhunter03
New member
Plenty of gun as long as you head shot. I just shot 2 coyotes in head one at 25 yards the other almost 35 and killed both using a 23 ft/lbS daystate shooting 16 g .22 pellet one killed instantly and the other ran about 70 yards before he fell over dead. Have both on vidoe to prove it as well. You do not need big bore rifle to shoot yotes I've killed plenty with 50 ft/lbs air ranger at 75 yards and in And I can but a group as tight as my pinky finger nail up to fifty yArds big bores can't come close to that acurate. No better way to shoot small game but with a good air rifle
BUTCHER45
Member
Quote:
I can but a group as tight as my pinky finger nail up to fifty yards big bores can't come close to that acurate. No better way to shoot small game but with a good air rifle
You shot a coyote in the head, and it ran 70 yards? Doesn't sound like enough gun to me. Had it been shot in the head with a bigbore airgun, it would have run 0 yards.
How many bigbore airguns have you personally shot? Curious how you came to the conclusion that bigbores cannot approach the accuracy of smallbores.
I've seen groups from .308 air rifles that were less than 2 inches at 200 yards.
A friend of mine back east shoots right at MOA at 100 yards with his SamYang .45
I haven't done much bench shooting with my bigbore air rifle. I find shooting into the same hole over and over to be quite boring, plus I seldom have a bench handy when hunting, so I avoid doing that type of shooting.
However, at 50 yards using a 4 power scope, I regularly put three shots of .456 caliber into under an inch center to center off of steady stix while sitting on the ground. .9 c-to-c shooting off the stix is typical.
If the groups get up to 1.25 or so, I know I am doing something wrong. Over 1.5, and I just stop shooting for the day as it just isn't my day.
At 50 yards, my best measured 3 shot group OFF STEADY STIX is .45 inch c-to-c (about the size of a pinky fingernail). I am not the worlds best shot, either.
Here's a 25 yard group, and a 50 yard group using a bipod, and a no-magnification Eotech sight, shot while (casually) sighting-in. These groups were shot with Evil Lurkers Sam Yang 909 .45 air rifle, the second time I ever shot it. That's the only 50 yard group I shot before moving on to shooting cans, or I'd certainly have tighter groups to show you.
Off of a bench, with proper discipline, these would close-up a bit I'm sure. Don't forget that a no-magnification Eotech was used.
Typical accuracy from a SamYang 909 bigbore air rifle (just so you all know).
These were shot with my personal SamYang 909 .45 after an afternoon hunt, using a fixed 4power scope, sitting on the ground off of steady stix, at 35 and 50 yards. The only two groups I shot that day.
Shot this 50 yard mono-pod/kneeling group just after establishing sight-in, and right before my ride home showed up. I called the pulled third shot you see there all by it's lonesome hehe. The mono-pod got a tad wobbly there.
Bigbore airguns are typically as accurate as most can shoot.
I can but a group as tight as my pinky finger nail up to fifty yards big bores can't come close to that acurate. No better way to shoot small game but with a good air rifle
You shot a coyote in the head, and it ran 70 yards? Doesn't sound like enough gun to me. Had it been shot in the head with a bigbore airgun, it would have run 0 yards.
How many bigbore airguns have you personally shot? Curious how you came to the conclusion that bigbores cannot approach the accuracy of smallbores.
I've seen groups from .308 air rifles that were less than 2 inches at 200 yards.
A friend of mine back east shoots right at MOA at 100 yards with his SamYang .45
I haven't done much bench shooting with my bigbore air rifle. I find shooting into the same hole over and over to be quite boring, plus I seldom have a bench handy when hunting, so I avoid doing that type of shooting.
However, at 50 yards using a 4 power scope, I regularly put three shots of .456 caliber into under an inch center to center off of steady stix while sitting on the ground. .9 c-to-c shooting off the stix is typical.
If the groups get up to 1.25 or so, I know I am doing something wrong. Over 1.5, and I just stop shooting for the day as it just isn't my day.
At 50 yards, my best measured 3 shot group OFF STEADY STIX is .45 inch c-to-c (about the size of a pinky fingernail). I am not the worlds best shot, either.
Here's a 25 yard group, and a 50 yard group using a bipod, and a no-magnification Eotech sight, shot while (casually) sighting-in. These groups were shot with Evil Lurkers Sam Yang 909 .45 air rifle, the second time I ever shot it. That's the only 50 yard group I shot before moving on to shooting cans, or I'd certainly have tighter groups to show you.
Off of a bench, with proper discipline, these would close-up a bit I'm sure. Don't forget that a no-magnification Eotech was used.
Typical accuracy from a SamYang 909 bigbore air rifle (just so you all know).
These were shot with my personal SamYang 909 .45 after an afternoon hunt, using a fixed 4power scope, sitting on the ground off of steady stix, at 35 and 50 yards. The only two groups I shot that day.
Shot this 50 yard mono-pod/kneeling group just after establishing sight-in, and right before my ride home showed up. I called the pulled third shot you see there all by it's lonesome hehe. The mono-pod got a tad wobbly there.
Bigbore airguns are typically as accurate as most can shoot.
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Nikonut
New member
Hey Butcher!
Maybe I should show them some groups at 200yds with my .308 DAQ, shooting 128gr solids! Those are some nice groups with the .45!
Seems to me we had this same conversation a while back with "azhunter03"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
It still amazes me that some actually believe what they write. It also makes me wonder how many wounded critters are left to die from a smallbore pellet at 70yds? Even a rabbit will runoff at that range on a marginal shot. Anybody that tells you they can always place their shots in a kill zone at that range should loose their hunting privileges. IMHO!
One of the highest priorities for an airgunner is using enough gun at a reasonable range to do the job "Ethically"! That's a concept that many don't understand. It's like the Gamo commercial... that ones pure crap, don't believe it just because you saw it on TV!
If you want to get rid of coons, live trap them, tie a rope on the trap and give it a 10minute soak in the nearest pond. Even that may be illegal in some states so be sure and check your game regulations!
Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Maybe I should show them some groups at 200yds with my .308 DAQ, shooting 128gr solids! Those are some nice groups with the .45!
Seems to me we had this same conversation a while back with "azhunter03"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
It still amazes me that some actually believe what they write. It also makes me wonder how many wounded critters are left to die from a smallbore pellet at 70yds? Even a rabbit will runoff at that range on a marginal shot. Anybody that tells you they can always place their shots in a kill zone at that range should loose their hunting privileges. IMHO!
One of the highest priorities for an airgunner is using enough gun at a reasonable range to do the job "Ethically"! That's a concept that many don't understand. It's like the Gamo commercial... that ones pure crap, don't believe it just because you saw it on TV!
If you want to get rid of coons, live trap them, tie a rope on the trap and give it a 10minute soak in the nearest pond. Even that may be illegal in some states so be sure and check your game regulations!
Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
BUTCHER45
Member
Quote:
Hey Butcher!
It still amazes me that some actually believe what they write. It also makes me wonder how many wounded critters are left to die from a smallbore pellet at 70yds? Even a rabbit will runoff at that range on a marginal shot.
He said he shot a coyote in the head at 25-35 yards, and it ran 70 yards before expiring. What that tells me is that that the pellet didn't penetrate the brain, and that he wasn't using enough gun. I don't understand how anyone can see it differently/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Headshot (I can't stand that term: it should read "brainshot") animals shouldn't be running ANYWHERE. I've never seen an animal shot in the brain, run. Breakdance yes, but not run.
If you are restricted to taking a brainshot on a given quarry due to not having a weapon powerful enough for a body shot, then I do not consider that weapon to be enough gun for that animal. One should have the option of being able to take a body shot, which is a much easier target to acquire/hit.
Wounding an animal that then goes un-recovered is bad enough. But wounding a PREDATOR that goes un-recovered, and manages to survive for awhile is on a whole new level of "not good". Especially in semi-rural areas.
Unfortunately, there are to many people involved with the marketing of smallbore airguns that that are telling people that 30fpe airguns are adequate "for a headshot" on predators. They are only concerned with marketing/sales. I see this as being bad for airgunning, and hunting as well.
EDITED to replace "irresponsibility" with "not good".
Hey Butcher!
It still amazes me that some actually believe what they write. It also makes me wonder how many wounded critters are left to die from a smallbore pellet at 70yds? Even a rabbit will runoff at that range on a marginal shot.
He said he shot a coyote in the head at 25-35 yards, and it ran 70 yards before expiring. What that tells me is that that the pellet didn't penetrate the brain, and that he wasn't using enough gun. I don't understand how anyone can see it differently/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Headshot (I can't stand that term: it should read "brainshot") animals shouldn't be running ANYWHERE. I've never seen an animal shot in the brain, run. Breakdance yes, but not run.
If you are restricted to taking a brainshot on a given quarry due to not having a weapon powerful enough for a body shot, then I do not consider that weapon to be enough gun for that animal. One should have the option of being able to take a body shot, which is a much easier target to acquire/hit.
Wounding an animal that then goes un-recovered is bad enough. But wounding a PREDATOR that goes un-recovered, and manages to survive for awhile is on a whole new level of "not good". Especially in semi-rural areas.
Unfortunately, there are to many people involved with the marketing of smallbore airguns that that are telling people that 30fpe airguns are adequate "for a headshot" on predators. They are only concerned with marketing/sales. I see this as being bad for airgunning, and hunting as well.
EDITED to replace "irresponsibility" with "not good".
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Well, not all "brain" shots drop in their tracks. Many yrs ago, I stalked in on a Red Fox with my Dad's friend young Son. He could shoot pretty well. He was useing a .243 bolt rifle. Hit the walking fox, broadside on the right side of it's head.
Fox stopped then wavered momentarily, then walked another 50' or so. Then dropped dead. We went to retrieve it. Left side of the Red's head was gone, as was most of the brain.
When I was a youth, I had a Crossman pump .22 cal pellet rifle. Only 10-pumps of compressed air, was enough to drop a coon or a feral cat, like a ship anchor. If I recall max velocity was around 1000fps. Maybe alittle more?
Pretty much the same fps standard of the earlier .22 cal rimfire cartridges.
Fox stopped then wavered momentarily, then walked another 50' or so. Then dropped dead. We went to retrieve it. Left side of the Red's head was gone, as was most of the brain.
When I was a youth, I had a Crossman pump .22 cal pellet rifle. Only 10-pumps of compressed air, was enough to drop a coon or a feral cat, like a ship anchor. If I recall max velocity was around 1000fps. Maybe alittle more?
Pretty much the same fps standard of the earlier .22 cal rimfire cartridges.
sweatybetty
New member
next one you catch in the trap, instead of chancing an encounter with the local cops, cover the trap with a tarp and set it at the tailpipe of your car. you can gas the thing in a few minutes and no trouble with the law.
azhunter03
New member
I have shot many big bores .45 sam yang 909s, .50 dragonslayer, condor on steroids (might as well just take a .223 out to the field they way that thing handles and the noise it makes) and the cadillac of all of them .32 Beaumont none are that impressive most are Korean or Chinese made which does not do anything for me the only one I would be proud to say that I own is the Beaumont for the craftsmanship of the gun. I do not usually use a .23ft/lbs just wanted to prove that it can be done ethically which it was I shot two both died one within feet of where it was shot and the other ran 70 yards before falling dead. I make one a trip to California a month so that I can use my air rifles, the gun I use is a 50ft/lbs AirRanger using a .22 21gr pellet moving at the speed of just about 1000 fps. I have killed many coyotes through the chest from 20 to 75 yards with no runners I could not fine. I’m not shooting a Gamo I would not suggest using a gamo or any air gun with there powers to shoot a pig or coyote with, im using adult air rifles that range from 1200 to 2200 dollars, they are designed to be accurate and kill, and I have proven time over time that it can happen. I have had just as many runners with my .223 with a good lung shot as I have with my air rifles. So don’t tell me it’s unethical if they are dying at 0 yards or at 70 yards they are both dead in a matter of seconds. (Basically you are telling me that you have never shot a coyote that ran off never to be found, then I ask how many coyotes have you actually shot or are you just that good to never have a runner?) I only take shots that I no that I can make and ones that will take the animal out as quick as possible. Whether it is with my bow, rim fire, or air rifle. Maybe you should do your research before you start pointing your finger and acting like you know all of the answers.
Nikonut
New member
Since I am the one that tried to hammer the point of NOT using an underpowered airgun and the unlikely probability of hitting a kill shot every time on a coyote, I take it you think I need to do research.
This suggests to me that we are actually closer to agreement on what is enough airgun than some might think...
Quote:
I’m not shooting a Gamo I would not suggest using a gamo or any air gun with there powers to shoot a pig or coyote with, im using adult air rifles that range from 1200 to 2200 dollars, they are designed to be accurate and kill, and I have proven time over time that it can happen.
I had typed out a long list and rant about how much power is enough from an airgun to make a clean kill on a coyote and then it dawned on me... you are comfortable doing what you do and I'm not. If it's legal where you are then who am I to say otherwise, do it... personally I choose not too.
The original post was a question about shooting raccoons with an airgun. Check the hunting regs and ordinances and if it's legal use what you have but I sure wouldn't want a mean ole'coon with a nasty mad attitude coming after me standing there with a .177 pellet gun as my only protection!
And, "azhunter03", since you live alot closer to the PM NM Hunt location than I do, I hope you come on over to the hunt and teach me a better way. I plan to be there and I'm a fast learner. Maybe I'll bring the .308 DAQ "Exile" out to play!
DAQ Exile .308
I'd also like to add that the Beaumont Airguns are very nice looking.
I love shooting airguns, so like Butcher45 my real concern is for the sport.
Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
This suggests to me that we are actually closer to agreement on what is enough airgun than some might think...
Quote:
I’m not shooting a Gamo I would not suggest using a gamo or any air gun with there powers to shoot a pig or coyote with, im using adult air rifles that range from 1200 to 2200 dollars, they are designed to be accurate and kill, and I have proven time over time that it can happen.
I had typed out a long list and rant about how much power is enough from an airgun to make a clean kill on a coyote and then it dawned on me... you are comfortable doing what you do and I'm not. If it's legal where you are then who am I to say otherwise, do it... personally I choose not too.
The original post was a question about shooting raccoons with an airgun. Check the hunting regs and ordinances and if it's legal use what you have but I sure wouldn't want a mean ole'coon with a nasty mad attitude coming after me standing there with a .177 pellet gun as my only protection!
And, "azhunter03", since you live alot closer to the PM NM Hunt location than I do, I hope you come on over to the hunt and teach me a better way. I plan to be there and I'm a fast learner. Maybe I'll bring the .308 DAQ "Exile" out to play!
DAQ Exile .308
I'd also like to add that the Beaumont Airguns are very nice looking.
I love shooting airguns, so like Butcher45 my real concern is for the sport.
Nikonut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Been watching this post awhile. I own a number of fine air guns including a Career in .22, an FX Ultimate in .22., a Falcon in .22 and Beeman R7 in .177. While you can kill an animal with anything, I would never recommend using an airgun to to do so. It's just not ethical, whether legal or not IMHO. I use the .177 on feathers (starlings), and the .22's on fur up to the size of a tree squirrel. A .22 LR is not even enough on a coon of any size, or a skunk (boy they're tough). The only time I'd use an airgun on a raccoon is in self defense and then using the gun as a bat. Last thing I'd want to come across is a raccoon with a pellet in his head. Good luck when one of the neighbors calls Animal Control and they find out and ask who in the area has a pellet gun. Many areas actually have an Animal Control Dept. that will give you the trap (with a small deposit refunded on return of the trap) and pick up the animal if/when you catch it. Where feasible, dispatch the animal using enough gun. In a city setting with neighbors, either call Animal Control and borrow a trap or buy one, relocate the animal where legal or transport it to somewhere where you can safely dispatch it. As for a .177 airgun, it's simple-just don't do it.
BUTCHER45
Member
AZhunter03, I understand you were responding to my question about how many bigbores you have shot, but past that I can't tell who you were responding to in your last post. If you shot those bigbores enough to get acquainted with them (even not), I am surprised you couldn't get them to demonstrate to you that they could at least "approach" the accuracy of your smallbores. Especially the DS: I don't recall ever hearing of one that wasn't very accurate.
I'm not exactly crazy about the Sam Yang .45 being made in Korea. But hey, it was my only option for a bigbore at the time, as two years ago there were no other bigbore's available (it has taken some people five years of trying just to get on DAQ's list).
After making a couple of quick changes to it (breech cap, cocking lever and fill probe) my own SamYang 909 has proven to be a keeper, as accurate as most any other hunting airgun I've seen, and has done well for itself taking various critters anywhere from 2lbs to 100+lbs during a couple of years of extensive use.
Just wait a few weeks, and watch for a couple of made in the USA bigbores. Bigbores I think most any airgunner would be proud to own.
My second response applied to the extreme example you gave in your initial post, stating that you killed two coyotes with a 23ft/pound .22 Daystate (directly after you wrote "plenty of gun"), along with my thoughts on the headshot coyote running 70 yards. I was not pointing a finger at you as a person: I was responding to your input/examples with my opinion. Nothing personal. We are simply exchanging opinions in a discussion, and IMO that is what the forum is for.
AZhunter03, I was not directing my response to the much more powerful (and far less frequent) smallbore rifles such as hopped-up Condors. The more powerful smallbore PCP's are a more debatable issue, much like "is a .22lr enough gun for a coyote".
With the right slug I am certain the .25 Condor I once had shooting 55-70grain slugs would kill a coyote just fine, though I think the bloodtrail would be slim to none, and that I would likely not recover a runner coyote shot in the lungs with it in the terrain I hunt most.
I don't believe I would recover a single coyote shot thru the lungs with a .22 air rifle in the terrain I hunt in most of the time. Especially one shot with a .22 producing an anemic 30fpe.
Hunting coyotes with the powerful .25 PCP's is like the old ".22LR for coyotes" topic, and all that goes with it. The use of a powerful smallbore such as a hot .25 PCP air rifle is pretty much the same thing, so I'll leave that one alone.
However, the 30fpe .22 air rifle is not comparable to, and is far, far weaker than a .22LR. I personally find the idea of hunting coyotes with 30fpe air rifles to be ridiculous. That is my opinion.
In case you were asking me, yes I have shot a coyote that ran off to not be recovered. Thing is, I didn't loose it due to not having enough gun. I lost it due to my lack of control that resulted in rushing the shot, which I believe hit the very back of the lungs/liver. There was no blood trail, and the coyote made it into very, very thick cover a short distance away (though it was at a very slow walk by the time it got there). There were several game tunnels it could have taken upon entering that stuff that I could not get through.
I made a bad shot.. May have made a poor choice in projectile as well. However, I am confident that coyote died that day, and didn't pose a problem for anyone.
If you were directing the "do your research" statement towards me, I have to LOL. I have done more research on hunting with airguns than %95+ of the airgunners out there.
Other than my experience with the .45 Sam Yang, and the .22, and hopped-up .25 AirForce Condor I once owned, I've been after exotic rams and deer, lots of small game/varmints, and wild hogs between 10 and 140+lbs with over a dozen other airgunner hunters using a wide variety of .22, .25, .308, and .45 air rifles ranging in power from 35-or-so fpe, to 600fpe. I've personally seen hogs (small, and not so small) shot with each of those calibers (save the .308) and their various power levels.
That's a good bit of research. Enough to give me a really good grasp on the effectiveness of the power of the various airguns, bigbore and smallbore.
I'm not exactly crazy about the Sam Yang .45 being made in Korea. But hey, it was my only option for a bigbore at the time, as two years ago there were no other bigbore's available (it has taken some people five years of trying just to get on DAQ's list).
After making a couple of quick changes to it (breech cap, cocking lever and fill probe) my own SamYang 909 has proven to be a keeper, as accurate as most any other hunting airgun I've seen, and has done well for itself taking various critters anywhere from 2lbs to 100+lbs during a couple of years of extensive use.
Just wait a few weeks, and watch for a couple of made in the USA bigbores. Bigbores I think most any airgunner would be proud to own.
My second response applied to the extreme example you gave in your initial post, stating that you killed two coyotes with a 23ft/pound .22 Daystate (directly after you wrote "plenty of gun"), along with my thoughts on the headshot coyote running 70 yards. I was not pointing a finger at you as a person: I was responding to your input/examples with my opinion. Nothing personal. We are simply exchanging opinions in a discussion, and IMO that is what the forum is for.
AZhunter03, I was not directing my response to the much more powerful (and far less frequent) smallbore rifles such as hopped-up Condors. The more powerful smallbore PCP's are a more debatable issue, much like "is a .22lr enough gun for a coyote".
With the right slug I am certain the .25 Condor I once had shooting 55-70grain slugs would kill a coyote just fine, though I think the bloodtrail would be slim to none, and that I would likely not recover a runner coyote shot in the lungs with it in the terrain I hunt most.
I don't believe I would recover a single coyote shot thru the lungs with a .22 air rifle in the terrain I hunt in most of the time. Especially one shot with a .22 producing an anemic 30fpe.
Hunting coyotes with the powerful .25 PCP's is like the old ".22LR for coyotes" topic, and all that goes with it. The use of a powerful smallbore such as a hot .25 PCP air rifle is pretty much the same thing, so I'll leave that one alone.
However, the 30fpe .22 air rifle is not comparable to, and is far, far weaker than a .22LR. I personally find the idea of hunting coyotes with 30fpe air rifles to be ridiculous. That is my opinion.
In case you were asking me, yes I have shot a coyote that ran off to not be recovered. Thing is, I didn't loose it due to not having enough gun. I lost it due to my lack of control that resulted in rushing the shot, which I believe hit the very back of the lungs/liver. There was no blood trail, and the coyote made it into very, very thick cover a short distance away (though it was at a very slow walk by the time it got there). There were several game tunnels it could have taken upon entering that stuff that I could not get through.
I made a bad shot.. May have made a poor choice in projectile as well. However, I am confident that coyote died that day, and didn't pose a problem for anyone.
If you were directing the "do your research" statement towards me, I have to LOL. I have done more research on hunting with airguns than %95+ of the airgunners out there.
Other than my experience with the .45 Sam Yang, and the .22, and hopped-up .25 AirForce Condor I once owned, I've been after exotic rams and deer, lots of small game/varmints, and wild hogs between 10 and 140+lbs with over a dozen other airgunner hunters using a wide variety of .22, .25, .308, and .45 air rifles ranging in power from 35-or-so fpe, to 600fpe. I've personally seen hogs (small, and not so small) shot with each of those calibers (save the .308) and their various power levels.
That's a good bit of research. Enough to give me a really good grasp on the effectiveness of the power of the various airguns, bigbore and smallbore.