Leupold target knobs vs M1's

Greyhunter

Greyhunter

New member
I posted this in the calling equip forum but trying it here for more traffic...

I am wanting a Leupold 6x18 or 6.5x20LR scope on the AR platform for target work, spot and stalk coyotes, and a rare PD trip. For now it will be on my RRA .223, and I'd like to eventually put it on a 243WSSM upper.

I am trying to decide if the M1 dials (custom shop) are worth the extra money over the standard Target dials, which will be an extra $70 - $120 depending on which model I go with. They both do about the same thing, but there are a couple reasons why I'm leaning towards the M1's. First, when spot and stalking it will be cold and I will be wearing gloves, so the M1 looks easier to manipulate with gloves on due to the design. Second, the M1's dont have a cap to mess with or drop into the snow (I've lost them before).
Are there any advantages or disadvantages to the M1's over the standard target turrets?

I'm also interested in the Leupold CDS dials. They are very low profile but more expensive and I find no specs on them anywhere on Leupolds website. Anyone have experience with them?

I am also trying to decide between the VX-II 6-18 and the V-3 6.5x20LR, which will put another $250-$350 into the figuring. Brightness isnt so critical for my use, but the extra power and side focus abilities would be nice. Would you spend the extra $$ for the VX-3?
 
I never had much luck spotting and stalking anything, let alone coyotes. Either scope would be fine for the occasional P-dog shoot. I have the 6-20X50 VX-III on my RRA Varmint 24in and I find the turrets just fine for cold weather work here in South Dakota. You don't need to use the caps if you don't want to, so that's not a big issue. Just leave them safe at home. The side focus is a nice feature, but the extra power is not a big deal between 18 and 20 power. If the mirage is bad, you'll have to turn them both down some. For target work the BDC dials are nice but hardly needed, since your not in a rush to dial in the corrections. The varmint hunter reticle will give you most of what you need for hunting situations, if you practice and get to know your loads, and how they translate to the scopes range marks. The same goes for the windage marks, but I find that more difficult to use in the bad winds around here.

As for the Leupold CDS dials: If I have to give up the side focus, and or high power, I doubt I would go for them. For a walk about rifle they would be great with the BDC dials out to 500 yards.

I also found it nice to have a short range red-dot mounted on my varminter. It handles shots from 25-75 yards and the occasional running coyote.
FastFire1.jpg
 
We spot and stalk a few here, usually the trouble is the spotting and not so much the stalking for me. IF I can find them sleeping, they are usually in trouble. Our hills and valleys are a lot closer together than what I've seen in SD, which makes getting close easier here.

I dont want BDC dials as this scope wont necessarily be dedicated to one upper or load, I'd rather refer to a load specific drop chart. I guess I'm shying away from the VH reticle for the same reason. I'm going to put it in a LaRue mount and swap back and forth with a 3x9 (in another LaRue) for calling.

Am I correct that none of these (M1's, target, or CDS) are BDC dials? I am assuming the M1's are just a more rugged / weather proof version of a target dial, correct? I'm concerned about crawling through snow with an unprotected (no cap) target dial.
I've used the target dials but never seen the M1's in person.
 
Ok, if your gonna dial alot the M1's are tops, but first find out if they are true 1/4 MOA adjustments on a 1" tube with M1's. For years leupold wouldn't put M1's on any 1" tubed scope, that being the reason they gave.
RR
 
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Ok, if your gonna dial alot the M1's are tops, but first find out if they are true 1/4 MOA adjustments on a 1" tube with M1's. For years leupold wouldn't put M1's on any 1" tubed scope, that being the reason they gave.
RR



Good point, I hadnt thought of that. More reason to go with the 30mm LR model I guess. Dang scope and mount are going to cost me more than the rifle did.
 
the 30mm's got a whole lot more adjustment anyways. with a 20 MOA base you have about 55 MOA of up from a 300 yard zero with most calibers.
RR
 
I use reticles on most of my walking rigs. Any new optic system i get have the taller elevation turret and std. windage turret. I just establish reticle zeros for windage. I much prefer reticles to turrets for coyotes because they move more than big game, and i can reference any change in range quicker with a reticle. My zeros go into a Butler Creek scope cap cover, which is very quick to reference without having to get out of position.

I am also a spot and stalk hunter. last coyote i got was a 435-yd. kill with a 6.5-7mm WSM XP-100 handgun with a 6.5-20x Mk. 4 FFP with Darrell Holland's HUMR reticle. That was a fun shot.

Hey GH did u ever see the article in Fur Fish Game magazine about Greg Rice up there in Iowa that spots and stalks coyotes and shoots them with a 308 Savage Police model? He uses a 3.5-10x Leupold with turrets. Has kills out to 700 yds. i guess. Man it was a great article.
 
I dont get FF&G, but that sounds like an interesting read. I'm not too worried about the speed of turrets. I usually have plenty of time and usually lay there for a few minutes letting my heart rate settle, might as well be twisting turrets in the mean time. I'm giving the TMR reticle a little thought though.

435 yds with a pistol eh? Thats a heck of a shot!
 
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the 30mm's got a whole lot more adjustment anyways. with a 20 MOA base you have about 55 MOA of up from a 300 yard zero with most calibers.
RR



I think I'm getting 140 moa from my 16x40 Mk4 m1........
 
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Quote:
the 30mm's got a whole lot more adjustment anyways. with a 20 MOA base you have about 55 MOA of up from a 300 yard zero with most calibers.
RR



I think I'm getting 140 moa from my 16x40 Mk4 m1........



Yep, and its not a 1" tube either, compare a 1" 6.5x20 to a 30mm 6.5x20, you'll see what I mean.
RR
 
Spend the money now for the V3,get the M1s later if you think you need them.I have a 6x18 vx2 with aftermarket turrents,would love to sell it and move up to a VX3!
 
I really like your idea of your two-scope system in the LaRues. Makes alot of sense. And, I think your scope choices are excellent.

I've got a VX-III 6.5-20X LR and my son (Verminator2) has a VX-II 6-18X Target on his .243AI. I like the SF on the VX-III. I can't comment on the M1's (wish I could) but as far as adjustment goes, last weekend V2 shot a 786 yard rockchuck (second shot kill) with his 6-18x. He took the shot with the elevation dialed in on standard bases. I doubt you'll need to worry a lot about running out of verticle for coyotes unless you just want to leave out the STALK part of your hunt!

If money is no object, go with the VX-3 but I wouldn't be the least bit afraid of the 6-18X if you have enough time to make the AO correction. It's just a little less handy.
 
I own the following loopys
m8 6x, vari-x II's in 3x9, 4x12, 6x18, varix III's 2.5x8, 3.5x10x50, 6.5x20 and mark 4's with TMR/M1's 6.5x20, 8.5x25. the rest do not compare to the mark 4's, so if your gonna buy a LR 6.5x20 and add on a TMR and M1's might as well go with the mark 4.
RR
 
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the 30mm's got a whole lot more adjustment anyways. with a 20 MOA base you have about 55 MOA of up from a 300 yard zero with most calibers.
RR



I think I'm getting 140 moa from my 16x40 Mk4 m1........



Yep, and its not a 1" tube either, compare a 1" 6.5x20 to a 30mm 6.5x20, you'll see what I mean.
RR



Agreed. I know exactly what you mean. I've owned at least 25 Leupys and still have at least a dozen, probably more. I do have a couple 1" tube models that have had M1's added, but have not really used either for any long range shooting, YET. I usually use the Mk4 16x40 or my Weaver T-36 for that. Sometimes a monarch 5-16x44. Here are some pics of the different Leupy turrets for Greyhunter for reference.......

standard target:
100_0082.jpg

T2's on a Mark 2:
100_0045.jpg

M1's:
100_0078.jpg

Height comparison:
100_0047.jpg
 
Excellent photos 2MG, thanks. I'm really digging the M1's, and I might have a line on a good price for an MK4. I'm not sure I want to get away from a standard duplex, but if I go the the MK4 I'll probably go with the TMR reticle, I know diddly squat about mil-dots and the TMR seems less intrusive.

BTW, I like that scope level, who makes it?
 
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BTW, I like that scope level, who makes it?



Not sure who made the level in the picture. Our long range scopes have a similar level but with an offset from Sinclair International on them. I recommend them as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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Excellent photos 2MG, thanks. I'm really digging the M1's, and I might have a line on a good price for an MK4. I'm not sure I want to get away from a standard duplex, but if I go the the MK4 I'll probably go with the TMR reticle, I know diddly squat about mil-dots and the TMR seems less intrusive.

BTW, I like that scope level, who makes it?



I have one of the 8.5-25x Mk 4's with the TMR, and loved it. It's in storage now though since i got Holland's HUMR reticle in a 6.5-20x Leup. M4 on the same rig.

I'd like to get the level that's built into an ACI. I put both of these on my mountain-hunting optics, and sure would like 1 unit instead. Can't remember who makes them [beeep].
 
I'd like to pick up one of the USO flip-up levels one day. Been eyeing them for years. The Sinclair is a good level, but I have 2 other levels, made by Scoplevel, that are plastic. They are fine off the bench, but I could see myself breaking them in the field real fast.......
 
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