.17 Predator,,,looking for some information

TA17rem,

Excellent pictures showing how to form/turn the brass. Thanks for taking the time showing the steps to form the .17p.

Man, this makes me want to have another .17cal project in the near future...
 
Gotcha,
That jives with my measurements of the .223 Lapua brass I'll be using. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif I specified my chamber to be cut to .199, based on a very light turning of the necks just to true them up from the necking down process...

And thanks for the tutorial, TA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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Just out of curiosity, why didn't you use a reamer with a no-turn neck? Or is turning necks just something you'll have to deal with with the .17 Pred.?

With your method, how often will you have to turn the necks?



You can get a reamer print cut so you don't have to turn the necks, its up to the guy haveing the gun built and his smith.
The decision of going with the .196 was made by my gunsmith. One of the reasons for neck turning is to true up the dia. of the necks so they are the same thickness all the way around and to thick of a neck wall can cause neck splits or cracks from being to thick..

Once the neck turning process is done you should never have to go back and do it again for the life of the case.
You need to check the necks for what they call a donut and if one appears then you may have to ream the neck to get rid of it or just toss the case..

Anyway like i said you can have a reamer print made so you don't have to turn the necks..
 
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I've been watching this thread and chuckling alot. I figured when Mr.Dooger started telling TA and DAA all about the 17cals it wouldn't take long for him to show his azz... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

The coyotegods site was mentioned in this thread, so I went over there to take a look. John-Henry told me I wasn't welcome there, a long time ago, so I very rarely go there anymore (but, I do think there's a lot of good info to be had there anyway, so I still link to it from my site...).

So, I just did go there to look, and Mr. Dooger has a thread going on the 30 Golds, which he begins, by pasting in a long quote from a source he fails to give credit to. Guess who the un-named source is? Yup, it's me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Something I posted on Leonard's board about the 30 Golds a long time ago. My opinion on them hasn't changed though, so I consider the anonymous quote to be accurate, at least, even though it doesn't quite translate being taken out of context.

But the thread continues with J-H naming another source and then giving that Man's opinion for him. That Man, happens to be a very close friend of mine (I can count all my "close" friends on the fingers of one hand...). He and I have discussed this subject of .17 caliber bullets, at specific velocities, at various distances, from specific barrel twists, on coyotes, at great length, many, many times. I KNOW his opinion isn't quite as cut and dried as it was presented, without his knowledge. But then, that friend mostly either gets mad, or just laughs at nearly everything that he is credited with on the internet anyway - and he has long since ceased to bother with the internet at all... Next time he's over for dinner I'll have to show that thread to him. Not sure whether he'll get mad, or laugh, but it will be one of the two and not complete agreement, of that I'm positive...

Anyway... I've been chuckling too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

- DAA
 
Oh! Almost forgot, a quick "P.S." is in order...

For the .17 Rem., I still think the 25 Berger Match is the way to go. Not that the 30 Gold's won't work and work well, but, just as "my opinion" is that the 30 Gold is well matched to the capacity and the job at hand for the .17P (and I'd imagine the .17POS too), "I think" the 25 Berger Match is the better balanced bullet in the .17 Rem. for the job at hand. The capacity and velocity potential, along with twist requirement making the difference. That's pure opinion though, and not even worth what you paid for it!

- DAA
 
Good posts DAA and you maybe right about the 25 gr. being a better choice for use in a 17 rem., i stopped useing them since i switched to the 30's so i don't know myself..LOL
You know you are starting to sound a little like J-H.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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I've been watching this thread and chuckling alot. I figured when Mr.Dooger started telling TA and DAA all about the 17cals it wouldn't take long for him to show his azz... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

The coyotegods site was mentioned in this thread, so I went over there to take a look. John-Henry told me I wasn't welcome there, a long time ago, so I very rarely go there anymore (but, I do think there's a lot of good info to be had there anyway, so I still link to it from my site...).

So, I just did go there to look, and Mr. Dooger has a thread going on the 30 Golds, which he begins, by pasting in a long quote from a source he fails to give credit to. Guess who the un-named source is? Yup, it's me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Something I posted on Leonard's board about the 30 Golds a long time ago. My opinion on them hasn't changed though, so I consider the anonymous quote to be accurate, at least, even though it doesn't quite translate being taken out of context.

But the thread continues with J-H naming another source and then giving that Man's opinion for him. That Man, happens to be a very close friend of mine (I can count all my "close" friends on the fingers of one hand...). He and I have discussed this subject of .17 caliber bullets, at specific velocities, at various distances, from specific barrel twists, on coyotes, at great length, many, many times. I KNOW his opinion isn't quite as cut and dried as it was presented, without his knowledge. But then, that friend mostly either gets mad, or just laughs at nearly everything that he is credited with on the internet anyway - and he has long since ceased to bother with the internet at all... Next time he's over for dinner I'll have to show that thread to him. Not sure whether he'll get mad, or laugh, but it will be one of the two and not complete agreement, of that I'm positive...

Anyway... I've been chuckling too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

- DAA



Who knew my post would cause sooo much drama. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Can I change my posting title to " 17 Predator,,,looking for some drama?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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I've been watching this thread and chuckling alot. I figured when Mr.Dooger started telling TA and DAA all about the 17cals it wouldn't take long for him to show his azz... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

The coyotegods site was mentioned in this thread, so I went over there to take a look. John-Henry told me I wasn't welcome there, a long time ago, so I very rarely go there anymore (but, I do think there's a lot of good info to be had there anyway, so I still link to it from my site...).

So, I just did go there to look, and Mr. Dooger has a thread going on the 30 Golds, which he begins, by pasting in a long quote from a source he fails to give credit to. Guess who the un-named source is? Yup, it's me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Something I posted on Leonard's board about the 30 Golds a long time ago. My opinion on them hasn't changed though, so I consider the anonymous quote to be accurate, at least, even though it doesn't quite translate being taken out of context.

But the thread continues with J-H naming another source and then giving that Man's opinion for him. That Man, happens to be a very close friend of mine (I can count all my "close" friends on the fingers of one hand...). He and I have discussed this subject of .17 caliber bullets, at specific velocities, at various distances, from specific barrel twists, on coyotes, at great length, many, many times. I KNOW his opinion isn't quite as cut and dried as it was presented, without his knowledge. But then, that friend mostly either gets mad, or just laughs at nearly everything that he is credited with on the internet anyway - and he has long since ceased to bother with the internet at all... Next time he's over for dinner I'll have to show that thread to him. Not sure whether he'll get mad, or laugh, but it will be one of the two and not complete agreement, of that I'm positive...

Anyway... I've been chuckling too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

- DAA



Who knew my post would cause sooo much drama. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Can I change my posting title to " 17 Predator,,,looking for some drama?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



It was such a good thread too. At least it made it five pages before it started going south. I would wager that no one has killed more coyotes with the 17 predator than DAA has so his opinion was good enough for me to spend the money on tooling to build myself one. I have killed a few with one and DAA is spot on it will handle a coyote at any range better then the fireball will.
 
GREAT thread! My son and I use our 17 Rems on coyotes out here in Western Washington state, where I think we are some of the only 17 Remington fans. They are so easy on fur! Have very few pass throughs, (but when they do, they are ugly!). They are so unpopular around here, that I bought six boxes of factory shells for $9.99, and the guy behind the counter said they had been on the shelf for as long as he could remember.

If someone wouldn't mind, I do have a question that I haven't seen the answer to yet. How is the case life? Also, what is the differnce between the 17P and the 17POS?

Thanks for some real good, and very informative reading, (aside from the typical forum drama).
 
Posted by Dooger over at Saubier.com on 2-24-09:

"New guy here with a new .17 Rem ta boot!

I'm having a hard time picking a bullet. I'm mainly going to be going after fox and coyote. I've heard that the 30 gr. Gold's are the cats meow and others argue that the 25 gr. Match Berger is the best route.

I want a bullet that is going to enter with a pin hole and leave no exit. Most all of my shots are going to be under 250 yards, but would like a bullet for more yardage for the ocasional woodchuck or crow hunt I go on.

The biggest fear I have is blowing a big hole in a fox or getting splash.

Should I use the 30 gr. golds and reduce the load to 3,500 or so or use the 25 gr. Bergers and keep my speeds around 3,700-3,800? Any load suggestions?

On top of this, I've heard people complain that their bullet disentigrates sometimes?????

Please explain as much as you can!

P.S. Our fox here average about 8-12 lbs. Coyotes average about 30 lbs."

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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If someone wouldn't mind, I do have a question that I haven't seen the answer to yet. How is the case life? Also, what is the differnce between the 17P and the 17POS?


I've gotten 8 loadings so far and did have to toss a couple do to error on my part. I'm useing the Nosler custom brass at the moument but have already made new brass from some Rem. cases i will test this spring to see if its any stronger in the primer pocket area.
The answer to the last question canbe found a page or two back...

Hey guys go easey on Dooger he is pretty new to all this and just stumbled across the wounderfull world of the 17 cal.s just a few months ago...
DAA would make a good Mentor for Dooger, don't you all agree? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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DAA can be my mentor anytime, taking me under his wing by building me my first 17POS! I was shopping on line last night and came across an older Sako Utra Vixen chambered in 17-223. I would assume its the same as the 17P. When was this first introduced as a wildcat? the poster said he has only shot it once in approx 25 years. They called it a Charles daily 17-22. This was never a factory introduced, or offered round for this rifle, was it, I would assume someone customized it? I'm sure its a great gun but with a short shelf life on the barrels for the money I can go cheaper with a new barrel on my action. I want a heavy 26" barrel anyways.
 
In the late '60's, early '70's, H&R imported Sako rifles that were factory chambered in .17-223. Should be a real sweetheart!
 
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DAA can be my mentor anytime, taking me under his wing by building me my first 17POS! I was shopping on line last night and came across an older Sako Utra Vixen chambered in 17-223. I would assume its the same as the 17P. When was this first introduced as a wildcat? the poster said he has only shot it once in approx 25 years. They called it a Charles daily 17-22. This was never a factory introduced, or offered round for this rifle, was it, I would assume someone customized it? I'm sure its a great gun but with a short shelf life on the barrels for the money I can go cheaper with a new barrel on my action. I want a heavy 26" barrel anyways.


I know less than nothing about the 17P and such, but I think it has the shoulder moved foreward over the 17/223, and also a different shoulder angle ( just FYI, the sharp shoulder helps case life by drasticly reducing the need to trim the cases) if you want max case life in a 17P, find some lapua 223 cases, they are the best you can get, next in line is Norma and win, they run about even, then rem. The nosler brass is the worst, my experiences and the experiences of guys that I know know they're stuff have found its overpriced junk.
RR
 
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So, anyway... To each his own, and all that. But my own personal love affair with the .17P and those 30 Golds really has nothing to do with long range prowess. It's all about laser flat trajectory for the ranges I normally shoot (I only had to hold off fur for ONE shot this season), total lack of recoil, superb accuracy, sufficient energy delivered in a balanced package for above average killing efficiency, fur friendly etc. The fact that it has enough energy to make a clean kill at 500 yards is really nothing more than an interesting factoid to me - it has little to do with my actual use.

- DAA



So, other than eccentricity, what's the point of getting involved in a .17 Predator? Why not just buy a .17 Rem Fireball. You can buy a rifle for $600 and ammo is already out there. Plus, components are out there and no case forming etc. is neccesary.

I feel that you are correct when speaking of long range coyote kills. It doesn't happen too ofetn and most are killed at under 150 yards.

Not picking on you.... more like agreeing with you.

I'd personally love to get a .17P, but the benefits just aren't there to get me to jump on one. It'd just be more money invested and more money in the long run.

I guess if I was a complete wildcat nut, I'd jump really fast....



if you are worried about having to buy a full on custom, you guys do know you can ream out a factory 17 rem chamber to predator, or that 17 POS looks pretty cool too. how much faster does it run over the regular predator??

some guys like DAA and myself included, like things that out perform the norm, that push the envelope, even if there are some draw backs.

listen to DAA's advice, he has never steered me wrong on anything, from trigger pull weights, stock shapes, to gunsmiths, to scopes or reloading questions, always the right answer, I don't feel there is anyone on this board who knows more about reloading and actual use of guns in the field than DAA.
 
Man I really need to get the stuff and get mine going instade of just looking at it. The 17 POS by the looks shouldnt be much different if any than the 17-204 by the looks of it.
 
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Hey Ridge, you gonna add a peeny little .17 to those supreme Allen magnum boomers in your stable???



Got a 20 tac in the works that should be completed any time now. we'll see about a 17, won't be anytime soon, gotta watch my finances for awhile, medical bills are piling up so we'll just have to see how it goes.
RR
 
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