Wolf problems and need help

I have a purely technical/what if question. What would likely be the senario if a .17 HMR slug was placed in a the boiler room of one of those Canadian Interlopers?

I'll hide and watch now.
 
we are running into a similar deal here in western nebraska with mountain lions...everyone says there arent any here and about a year ago when i 3 year old horse gets killed they say its a coyote?...then in this last year they have shot two within a block from the highschool in the biggest town around here and one sitting on a deck watching a 1 year old baby through a glass door...?
 
Seems that the thing to do is complain and write your law makers and demand they do something. Get as many others as you can to do the same. Sure as heck seems to work for the animal activists. Until you push all the legal buttons and exhaust your legal options, there will be few to come to your rescue.
 
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we have acctually been seeing wolves in a 30 mile radius of my town just on the border of ID and have taken pics to the fish and game wolf management and they call them "large coyotes" because it was part of a contract not to have wolves where we live and they have already been vidiotaped killing some friends of ours sheep



What kind of contract are you speaking of? If one could be killed legally, protecting stock or people, it could be offered as proof of a breech of contract.

Also a breech of contract case could be started (without killing anything), the fish and game officers deposed, and see if they still claim they are "large coyotes" under oath. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find and expert to refute their claims if they stick to the story.

Not knowing the particulars, these are just some general suggestions of something that might be doable. Keep us posted.

peace.
unloaded
 
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My question is this. When do we, as Sportsmen, say enough is enough. When will we be willing to take some action, even if it may not be lawful, in order to preserve what is near and dear to us?



Drifter,
I normally tend to agree with much of what you post and always enjoy reading what you have to say. And I don’t necessarily disagree with the quote. With that said, allow me to be the devils advocate?

Think of the wide diversity in America today and all the various groups clamoring for their own individual rights. Who says what is right and what is wrong? Who decides when someone has crossed the line? When is someone merely standing up for their rights, or participating in anarchy? If every group or individual practiced the principles in your quote, then wouldn’t we truly have an anarchist society?

America does in fact have a system in place to serve the best interest of the public by the people’s wishes. That system breaks down occasionally and when it does there are ways and means for a resolution that do not include committing a criminal act. For the most part it works, though it does seem to be on the downhill slide right now. That is our responsibility to work hard to make positive changes. That is a problem with sportsmen as a whole, they tend to be individuals and not act as a collective group with some muscle in numbers to influence the people in the right places. Doing secretive and solitary high plains "SSS" won't solve the problem long term. I dunno... I think? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

 
We kill canadian grey wolves around Bristol NY here and they range from the 60 yo 90 lb range. Bid beautiful animal. Some areas they have exploded. You guys have it easy in the west. Lets see you come here nad kill a coyote in Central NY. Tough little bastards to get here.
I fully believe they need to be controlledor all your big game will be decimated over the years. Quickly!
 
I ain't advocateing killing them but there is a reason the people who setteled this reigion shot them on sight along with the Griz. To protect their lively hood...........
 
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I ain't advocateing killing them but there is a reason the people who setteled this reigion shot them on sight along with the Griz. To protect their lively hood...........



That is true.

We all know that the wolf will decimate the deer, elk, cattle, sheep, or whatever they can catch as they multiply & thrive with easy pickin's (at least for awhile).

Unfortunately, history has to repeat itself... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

The old timers KNEW what the wolf was doing, & eleminated it as a threat to their livelyhood & the wild game.

Because it gives the wolf advocates a "warm fuzzy" feeling to know that wolves are running around our country doing what wolves do, the ranchers & sportsmen pay the price.

It's not the wolf groups that pay the price... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Here in NM one of the groups said they would pay for rancher's losses. A trust fund was set up to pay for this, but in just a few short years, the fund is decimated much like what the wolves are doing to our rescources. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

It also does not provide for replacement costs of either wildlife, or livestock.

The sad truth of the matter is that the laws are wrong about wolf protection. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

It tends to make criminals of those that have the right to protect their private property & livelyhood.
How "American" is that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

It always amazes me that the few special interest groups have more power and clout with our lawmakers & judges than the majority.

It's time we had a "Non-Wolf" special interest group that looks after OUR rights.

Barry
 
Let all of the special interest groups that filed an injunction against delisting the wolf pay for the wolves food. Each state that was forced into the introduction of wolves would have the pro-wolf groups pay that state's fish & game department for the loss of game and plus the private sector.
Canadian Grey Wolf eats on the average 8 lbs per day. You have 365 days and at $4.00 per lb. that might compensate the stress induce to the rest of the game population.
Just a thought.
 
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My question is this. When do we, as Sportsmen, say enough is enough. When will we be willing to take some action, even if it may not be lawful, in order to preserve what is near and dear to us?



Drifter,
I normally tend to agree with much of what you post and always enjoy reading what you have to say. And I don’t necessarily disagree with the quote. With that said, allow me to be the devils advocate?

Think of the wide diversity in America today and all the various groups clamoring for their own individual rights. Who says what is right and what is wrong? Who decides when someone has crossed the line? When is someone merely standing up for their rights, or participating in anarchy? If every group or individual practiced the principles in your quote, then wouldn’t we truly have an anarchist society?

America does in fact have a system in place to serve the best interest of the public by the people’s wishes. That system breaks down occasionally and when it does there are ways and means for a resolution that do not include committing a criminal act. For the most part it works, though it does seem to be on the downhill slide right now. That is our responsibility to work hard to make positive changes. That is a problem with sportsmen as a whole, they tend to be individuals and not act as a collective group with some muscle in numbers to influence the people in the right places. Doing secretive and solitary high plains "SSS" won't solve the problem long term. I dunno... I think? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif





I dont disagree with what you are saying GC and you are right. We do tend to see eye to eye the majority of the time. The point I was trying to make is simply that we all have a breaking point. Each and every one of us has that breaking point, depending on what the issue or crisis at hand. Take for instance my example about the US Government making it illegal to posses firearms in the USA and ordering us all to turn over our guns. It may be far fetched but ask residents of England or Australia if it can happen. That kind of crisis could cause many of us to break and be, if you will, an outlaw. Many would be willing to fight and die to defend their right. The wolf issue has become sensitive enough to many of us that live in the heart of wolf country to cause many of us to rethink our position.

Many members here are not faced with this dilema because it does not affect them. For now. But for many of us, every time we go out our door to spend time in the great outdoors, we have to ask ourself what we will do if we see a wolf. Years ago, for many of us, that decision would have been simple. Now, because of how absolutely out of hand this situation has gotten, that thought process is not that clear cut. Many in this region recognize that if something is not done soon, by somebody, we are done as far as hunters. Game over. We are litterally faced with losing a heritage. That is powerful stuff when you take a normally law abiding citizen and put them into a situation where they have to make a choice.
 
I understand your point and it is a point that deserves serious consideration. I am not a wolf lover or anything like that. In fact, I'd love to hammer one of those big dudes some day and have his hide on the wall as a legitimate legal sport hunting trophy. But I strongly feel we should recognize how potentially dangerous it is to dispense justice as we see fit as an individual. That could be a dangerous precedent… /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Whether we agree with existing laws or not, we have a responsibility as hunters and citizens to abide by the laws.

The law does allow us to defend ourselves and our fellow man against animal attacks when an attack is imminent. This is the same as using deadly force against a human attacker/deadly force threat.

In my opinion, the animal rights activists have nothing better to do with their time than fight and lobby for what they believe in, and in the process chipping away at our beloved privileges. They are no doubt a strong group. Sometimes I wonder if it will take us as hunters more time and energy (read less time in the field doing what we love) in order to defeat them.
 
Quote:
Whether we agree with existing laws or not, we have a responsibility as hunters and citizens to abide by the laws.

The law does allow us to defend ourselves and our fellow man against animal attacks when an attack is imminent. This is the same as using deadly force against a human attacker/deadly force threat.

In my opinion, the animal rights activists have nothing better to do with their time than fight and lobby for what they believe in, and in the process chipping away at our beloved privileges. They are no doubt a strong group. Sometimes I wonder if it will take us as hunters more time and energy (read less time in the field doing what we love) in order to defeat them.



No offense 4949shooter but you prove my point with your post in several ways. First off, in New Jersey, you have absolutely nothing to lose when it comes to a wolf problem. You will be able to enjoy time in the field pursuing what you love for many decades to come. Many people may not even be aware that Jersey actually has some pretty good deer hunting.

And you are right. We as hunters have a responsibility to abide by the laws whether we believe in them or not. There in lies the problem. The ARA's have nothing but time on their hands and for us, time is running out. We may eventually defeat them but if and when we do, to what end? By the time this thing is resolved it will be too late for Wyoming, Idaho and Montana and God knows how many other states. You think this is an over dramatization or an exaggeration. I got news for you. The Shiras Moose is teetering on the brink. Many Elk herds in the heart of all three states have been decimated. Many regions you cannot find deer, elk or moose anymore because they are gone. Not necessarily because the wolves have killed them all but simply because of the wolves presence. Then the cycle begins. No more prey for the wolf because they have all run away and now the wolf must expand his range. Case in point. I live over 250 miles from Yellowstone park and the basic re-introduction area, in the center of the state. Last month, a pair of Wolves were spotted in the Laramie Range, right outside of Casper. No one ever intended for Wolves to inhabit any portion of this state except the park and the re-introduction area. So now, these wolves are setting up shop in an area of the state they were never intended to be. Meanwhile, any opportunity for this little problem to be corrected is tied up in a Federal Lawsuit and will be for years. How long do you think it will take for that mated pair and maybe several other mated pairs to populate that Mountain Range with game killing wolves? Are you seeing the problem? Waiting is going to be the end of us. So is continuing to be a law abidding citizen. Which leaves many people with a very difficult decision. Most have spent their entire lives never breaking anything but traffic laws. Many others, like me, enforce the law (although not game laws) and find ourselves in a quandry.

I am not saying I support a vigilantee approach to solving this problem. My point is, many law abidding citizens are being pushed to the brink of being outlaws by the system. The worst part about it is, no one who matters seems to really care.
 
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Whether we agree with existing laws or not, we have a responsibility as hunters and citizens to abide by the laws.

The law does allow us to defend ourselves and our fellow man against animal attacks when an attack is imminent. This is the same as using deadly force against a human attacker/deadly force threat.

In my opinion, the animal rights activists have nothing better to do with their time than fight and lobby for what they believe in, and in the process chipping away at our beloved privileges. They are no doubt a strong group. Sometimes I wonder if it will take us as hunters more time and energy (read less time in the field doing what we love) in order to defeat them.



No offense 4949shooter but you prove my point with your post in several ways. First off, in New Jersey, you have absolutely nothing to lose when it comes to a wolf problem. You will be able to enjoy time in the field pursuing what you love for many decades to come. Many people may not even be aware that Jersey actually has some pretty good deer hunting.

And you are right. We as hunters have a responsibility to abide by the laws whether we believe in them or not. There in lies the problem. The ARA's have nothing but time on their hands and for us, time is running out. We may eventually defeat them but if and when we do, to what end? By the time this thing is resolved it will be too late for Wyoming, Idaho and Montana and God knows how many other states. You think this is an over dramatization or an exaggeration. I got news for you. The Shiras Moose is teetering on the brink. Many Elk herds in the heart of all three states have been decimated. Many regions you cannot find deer, elk or moose anymore because they are gone. Not necessarily because the wolves have killed them all but simply because of the wolves presence. Then the cycle begins. No more prey for the wolf because they have all run away and now the wolf must expand his range. Case in point. I live over 250 miles from Yellowstone park and the basic re-introduction area, in the center of the state. Last month, a pair of Wolves were spotted in the Laramie Range, right outside of Casper. No one ever intended for Wolves to inhabit any portion of this state except the park and the re-introduction area. So now, these wolves are setting up shop in an area of the state they were never intended to be. Meanwhile, any opportunity for this little problem to be corrected is tied up in a Federal Lawsuit and will be for years. How long do you think it will take for that mated pair and maybe several other mated pairs to populate that Mountain Range with game killing wolves? Are you seeing the problem? Waiting is going to be the end of us. So is continuing to be a law abidding citizen. Which leaves many people with a very difficult decision. Most have spent their entire lives never breaking anything but traffic laws. Many others, like me, enforce the law (although not game laws) and find ourselves in a quandry.

I am not saying I support a vigilantee approach to solving this problem. My point is, many law abidding citizens are being pushed to the brink of being outlaws by the system. The worst part about it is, no one who matters seems to really care.


Actually, I do have something to lose HighPlains. Once hunting rights begin to erode in one section of the country, it sets a precedent for the rest. This is no different than case law we have to deal with. In NJ, some counties have been requiring a K-9 hit on a car even though we have probable cause to search. Now other counties are beginning to doubt our PC and are requesting more, like a K-9, warrant, etc. When you give hunters a bad name in one part of the country, it effects hunters throughout the entire U.S.

I know I don't have the same problems as you do in your region, but I am old enough to know what the effects will be when people do get pushed past their threshold and begin to take the situation into their own hands. That's why it is up to people like us to push for legal methods of wolf control.
 
HighPlainsDrifter, I think you have stated the issue and how many people in the affected areas feel better than I have ever heard. Well said.
 
We hear the same garbage about the "beautiful wolves" and the "true wilderness experience with wolves" here in the UP of MI. The thing is, this BS is expressed by people that do not live here and do not have to co-exist with the wolves. The deer and small game populations have suffered since the re-introduction of wolves. The MI DNR was kind enough to put the wolves in the Upper Peninsula of MI, but not the Lower Peninsula of MI. This way, visitors can see/hear wolves and go home and marvel about their experiences with wolves without having to deal with them.

Fast forward to today. The wolves are now in the LP of Michigan and residents there are getting first hand experience with them. It seems that the wolves are eating the deer and small game populations there. Doesn't this sound familiar? Wait until the wolves put a big hurt on the state's elk population and start raiding the farms/homes in the LP. Maybe then something will be done to control them. On a sidenote, the MI DNR just put out a $3K reward for information leading to the arrest of someone that killed a wolf here. MI VHNTR
 
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