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#122 - 03/05/01 09:38 PM Dogs 4 coyote calling
Anonymous
Unregistered


Anybody read the Dec-Jan issue of North American Hunter?It had an artical about useing your dog as a decoy for coyotes.the guy would have his dog roam around him while he called and when his dog spotted a coyote it would run back to the caller and lure the coyote in for a close shot.What do yall boys think about this?

Jbrad

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#123 - 03/05/01 11:34 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Bob Mc Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Fort Jones, California, USA
If you want a fast education about the use of decoy/tolling dogs, watch the videos "Dogging Coyotes 1 & 2" produced by E.L.K.

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#124 - 03/06/01 06:26 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
River Runner Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 8930
Loc: Bloomington, WI
I remember reading that issue but I had flash backs of the one time I DID take my dog Coyote hunting, after I read it.

Walking out to a stand and the dog's in 7th Heaven roaming around sniffin everything. I thought to myself, "he's gonna get lost if he don't stick a little closer to me.
He kept looking back at me to make sure I was coming then he'd go about his business again. I decided to test out my camo, after he looked back to confirm my presence once I squatted down along side a downed Oak. He scouted around a while and when he decided to check on me again he stopped and looked back, didn't see a thing, panned his head side to side a few time and all of a sudden he was on a dead run back the we came in. He zig zagged back an forth in the general direction till he got back on our original trail then he made a B-line for the truck.
We were about a mile into the timber, I thought sure as hell he'd get lost. I stood up and yelled for him, all he did was screech to a halt, look back for about three seconds. He couldn't pick me out, I even tried flailing my arms. He'd looked long enough, and as far as he was concerned I disappeared. He poured the beans to it and he was gone in a flash, headed for the truck.
I decided I better go after him, and when I got back to the truck, there he sat in the back, front paws up on the side wall, wagging his tail. I thought, "you lil peckerhead".

~River Runner~

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#125 - 03/06/01 09:28 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Steve Craig Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 220
Loc: Cottonwood,AZ USA
Jbrad,
The use of dogs for calling coyotes has been around for 20 to 30 years. Some of the best gov't hunters and trappers have been using them during this time. One of them,Vern Dorn, from WY actually bred a bloodline called the "Dorn Dogs". I have one of his dogs and they are fantastic. Most of the year, from Sept to Feb, you are betteroff without the dogs. But from March to Aug. when the coyotes are raising pups, is where the dogs shine. The dogs will also show you the location of the den so you can take the pups after killing the adults. Vern became known as the "King of the Denners" from his work with the dogs. He was a great man and is still missed. The bloodline has been taken over by Craig and Dana O'Gorman from Broadus MT. Although other breeds will work, it is my opinion that the Dorn dogsare at the top of the list. The video's from E.L.K. Inc. are very good video's to see how this is done. It is like the Good Book say's" there is nothing new under the sun". It is just new to you and to me.
Steve



------------------
www.azpredatorhunts.com

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#126 - 03/06/01 11:26 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Wiley E Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Kadoka, S.D.
Steve Craig summed that up pretty well. I will clarify a few things though. I have been using decoy dogs for quite awhile. If you have a dog like Steve has, he is correct. An agressive dog will cost you some younger coyotes from Sept. - Feb.
For the sake of this discussion, I will name Feb. 1 - Sept. 1 as summer and Sept. 1 through Feb. 1 as winter. We will assume that all the decoy dogs are over 35 lb.

There are different scenerios here that are important to distinguish. I will write them as a GENERAL rule of thumb (nothing concrete):

1. Very aggressive decoy dogs with territorial adult coyotes (roughly 40% of the coyote population).

In the winter, the decoy dogs will usually run them right out of the country. In the summer, they may run them off but the adults will usually return unless the dog is just too aggressive and the coyotes were on the timid side for adults.

2. Semi aggressive decoy dogs with territorial adult coyotes (roughly 40% of the coyote population).

This situation will usually work year round.

3. Timid decoy dogs with territorial adult coyotes (roughly 40% of the coyote population).

This is a good situation to get a dog killed by coyotes year round but especially in the summer. If the dog is smart and quick, you may get by if he will run back to you soon enough and stay out of trouble. Many callers have watched the wrong dog get their guts spilled out by adult coyotes.

4. Very aggressive decoy dogs with transient younger coyotes in the winter (roughly 60% of the coyote population).

Forget it! Clocking them to see how fast they can leave the country is usually your only source of entertainment here.

5. Semi aggressive decoy dogs with transient younger coyotes in the winter (roughly 60% of the coyote population).

They will still usually leave the country, just not quite as fast as when they are chased by a real aggressive dog.

6. Timid decoy dogs with transient younger coyotes in the winter (roughly 60% of the coyote population).

This can work. Just hope you don't run into the #3 situation above. You need to have a dog that will come back to you in the winter for transient younger coyotes but that same dog will not be aggressive enough for adults in the summer. He will keep the action too close to you in the summer as opposed to 100 yards out there.

The whole point here is that you will never have the perfect dog for all situations. If you have a semi aggressive dog that you can control, you can kill coyotes year round with him as long as you can make him lie down when you have transient younger coyotes coming in. Even if your dog will lie down, you will still usually have to shoot these timid coyotes at farther distances than you would otherwise. Hope that helps! Wiley E

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#127 - 03/06/01 02:35 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Cal Taylor Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 545
Loc: Gillette Wy.
Bob Mc,
Where does this term "tolling dog" come from?
I am familiar with useing dogs to decoy or bring coyotes to you but don't understand this particular term.

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#128 - 03/06/01 04:07 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Wiley E,
I have been holding myself back from getting a decoy dog because I live in the city. Dogs and city life don't mix well. If my will power is overcome, I get a good decoy dog and my wife shoots me---Well you and that dang above posting is partly to blame for it all.

Steve Craig,
You did have to go and mention the great Vern Dorn and his denning dogs now didn't you. I know that I need a good decoy dog, DAGG BLAST IT!!!You guys are gonna get me killed yet.

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#129 - 03/06/01 10:07 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Bob Mc Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Fort Jones, California, USA
Cal,

As I understand it (and I'm not an authority on the subject) the term "tolling dog" more properly describes what we are talking about here. A dog that goes out to meet the coyote, and tolls him in. The term "decoy" more properly fits the dog that is tied, or staked out, as a decoy; as some people have been known to use dogs.

Although I use Airedales as calling dogs, I do not consider them to be tolling dogs; but then I don't consider myself to be much of a coyote hunter either. My 2 males especially, are much to aggressive for the job. I am primarily hunting other things (cats, bear, gray fox) and I refer to my dogs as "get up and get after 'em dogs". They get up and get after whatever I call in, and usually have it up a tree in short order.

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#130 - 03/07/01 08:19 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
nc Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 4
Loc: Kansas
One thing to add to Wiley E's post, be careful as coyotes will send in one coyote to play with the dog with more waiting out of sight,e.g. over a ridge, to fight the dog.

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#131 - 03/08/01 09:17 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have to say I really disagree with the idea of using a dog for a decoy. I've never seen a more natural dislike between two species. Train your dog to stay with you at the call,and at your command have him follow up a cripple. In many area's coyote's learn that a dog means Man! You give yourself away with the dog,i.e.sheepcamp. I've trained dogs to watch and join in when I say, much to my help. JMO

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#132 - 03/08/01 09:39 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Well Bumble I have seen a few video's that sure blows your theory all to pieces. Without their calling dogs, people like the great Vern Dorn or Bill Austin would have been much less successful. A calling dog is just one more tool for a serious coyote man. Like any tool, the dog must be used properly and at the correct time.

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#133 - 03/09/01 08:57 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling
Steve Craig Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 220
Loc: Cottonwood,AZ USA
bumble,
What rich said!LOL
Steve

------------------
www.azpredatorhunts.com

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#2204305 - 04/20/12 11:31 PM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling [Re: Steve Craig]
SHampton Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 1730
Loc: BAOklahoma
11 years old, best post I've seen.

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#2205690 - 04/23/12 10:52 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling [Re: SHampton]
CAT DADDY COLD Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 1161
Loc: Comanche OK
Originally Posted By: SHampton
11 years old, best post I've seen.


Yep - too bad that several of these guys have been quoted and misquoted to the point they will seldom post on an open form any more.

Stay after them
Kelly
_________________________
Killin coyotes is not chess its checkers…..don’t over think it.

Kelly Jackson - Foxpro Field Staff

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#2205714 - 04/23/12 11:52 AM Re: Dogs 4 coyote calling [Re: CAT DADDY COLD]
btech29 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 1464
Loc: NW Arkansas
Wow! Talk about the good ole days. lol

A thread about dogs that didnt turn into a pissing match about who's dog is best. Unbelievable.
_________________________
You can tell a lot about a man by watching him cross a fence.

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