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#1195012 - 01/25/09 12:49 AM Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo?
AviD Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
I thought this quote from another thread I started was quite interesting and it got me thinking...

Quote:

I don't plan on shooting at our 25 to 35 lb coyotes at over 45 yards so the Rem HD BB's are about the perfect size and weight for the hunting I do.





The original poster is from CA, and when I looked back at GC's testing and results and ultimately his chosen load (3" Remington Wingmaster HD BB)...I noticed he too was from the west, namely MO (kinda central though).

Now when we consider yote size from East to West, there's obviously a signficant difference. Saving us from the why's, let's focus on the what's...that is...what is the average weight of an Eastern yote and a Western yote?


From Wikipedia,

Quote:


Coyotes typically grow to 75–87 centimeters (30–34 inches) in length and on average, weigh from 7–21 kilograms (15–46 pounds).[5] Northern coyotes are typically larger than southern subspecies, with the largest coyotes on record weighing 74¾ pounds (33.7 kg) and measuring over five feet in total length.




So perhaps weight is more of a Northern vs Southern thing (similar to deer)?


Either way it got me thinking, is the Remington Wingmaster HD in BB sufficient for Eastern yotes?

It seems phonebooks and magazines are the test medium for penetration, so how much penetration is needed to effectively kill a Western/Southern yote vs an Eastern/Northern yote?

Further, for those that have shot a number of coyotes (Eastern/Northern), what percentage have escaped wounded at distances over 40 yards and with what shot?

Do you focus your aim on head shots or body/chest shots to maximize the effective success?

I also realize not all states handicap their hunters as much as New Jersey does, and most Northern and Eastern states allow the use of buckshot in some form.

I also know of plenty of yotes that have been killed by Hevi-shot Dead Coyote 3" and 3.5" loads (T shot), some in the 40 plus range.

So, in summary, the questions:

1) Is Remington Wingmaster HD BB sufficient to kill coyotes exceeding 45lbs at ranges over 40 yards?

2) If not, is the T shot sufficient?

3) What is the best way to determine this (other than shooting at live yotes)? Are phonebooks and magazines suitable? Or perhaps some level of wood material (2x4s, etc)?

4) What's the highest percentage shot on large (great than 45lbs) yotes...head or chest? I'd assume chest, but I'm not an expert by any stretch.


I'm not sure if anyone has clear answers, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion.

Even more interesting is...New Jersey only allows up to size 4 (yes FOUR) during the regular small game season (where we can hunt coyotes). It is only during the one month "Special Night Season" where you can use muzzleloaders with a single projectile or size 4 to T or shotguns with size 4 to T during the day...and ONLY shotguns with 4 to T during the night. The only exception to this is when you are deer hunting (requiring a permit PER ZONE you hunt) where you can shoot them with whatever weapon you are using (ML or shotgun with buckshot or slug/single projectile) during legal deer hunting hours.

Pretty crappy...but thus is the communist state of NJ...pretty standard. You can shoot groundhogs with high power rifles (across vast open fields)...but not anything else at any time of the year.

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#1195013 - 01/25/09 01:15 AM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: AviD]
Furhunter Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 5883
Loc: Western Colorado
Quote:

1) Is Remington Wingmaster HD BB sufficient to kill coyotes exceeding 45lbs at ranges over 40 yards?




You are way over thinking this.

First dont worry about how big the coyotes are, a 45 pound coyote is rare at best, east, west, south, north....wherever. You might shoot a couple in a lifetime, if your lucky, its far over average weight for a coyote. Almost like a hole in one for a golfer.

I shoot 3" BB lead and try to keep shots under 40 yards. There is no magic load that will kill a big coyote any deader than a small one. Load up that shotgun, grab a call and go hunting.........dont over think this. you dont want to hit the field with ammo deficiency syndrome.
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#1195014 - 01/25/09 01:54 AM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: Furhunter]
AviD Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
Quote:

you dont want to hit the field with ammo deficiency syndrome.




That's me all the way, always overthinking everything

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#1195015 - 01/25/09 10:01 AM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: AviD]
remington870 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 618
Loc: Wisconsin
Def. way over thinking this. If a shotgun load works on small desert yotes it will still work on 50 pound nothern yotes. I've shot big northern yotes with turkey load and it works fine.

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#1195016 - 01/25/09 11:37 AM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: remington870]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16683
Loc: Missouri
Find the best patterning magnum load of "denser than lead" shot between sizes BB, T, and No. Four Buck with the best choke combination for your gun. Then - GO HUNTING! Right now you are pulling a "GC" and obsessing over this stuff. I can tell ya from experience your time is better spent scouting, figuring out the best stand location, and getting in the woods/fields/desert..., whatever you have there in Jersey; and actually pulling the trigger on some coyotes to get more experience with your rig. Go shoot some coyotes in the head… it’ll make you feel better.
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#1195017 - 01/25/09 11:42 AM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: GC]
AviD Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
Haha OK boys, I'll be out there tonight or tomorrow!
LOL @ pulling a "GC"...I think its in my/our nature!

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#1195018 - 01/25/09 12:42 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: Furhunter]
Razorsedge Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 732
Loc: Ellenville, NY






First dont worry about how big the coyotes are, a 45 pound coyote is rare at best, east, west, south, north....wherever. You might shoot a couple in a lifetime, if your lucky, its far over average weight for a coyote. Almost like a hole in one for a golfer.

I shoot 3" BB lead and try to keep shots under 40 yards. There is no magic load that will kill a big coyote any deader than a small one. Load up that shotgun, grab a call and go hunting.........dont over think this. you dont want to hit the field with ammo deficiency syndrome.




If you think 45lb or better yotes are rare in the east you better book a hunt in NY. Most of the dogs I shoot are 40 or better. When I go out hunting it's not uncommon to see tracks that look bigger than a shepard. My hunting buddie shot one last year @ 62 lbs. Swampwalker from this sight just nailed one @ 50.
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#1195019 - 01/25/09 01:30 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: Razorsedge]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Unfortunately, we can't use BB shot or number four BUCK shot for coyotes here in New Jersey. We can use number four BIRD shot, or 2 or T shot during the special coyote season only.

FWIW, I dumped a load of #4 bird shot into a north Jersey coyote a couple years ago. I hit the coyote but ended up never finding it. Now I am using the Dead Coyote T shot.

Anyway, our coyotes up here in north Jersey are bigger than south Jersey, just like the deer.

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#1195020 - 01/25/09 05:05 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: 4949shooter]
JD338 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 433
Loc: Western MI
With a good hit, any size coyote shot with a load of Dead Coyote T shot will be just that, dead.

JD338


Edited by JD338 (01/25/09 05:06 PM)

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#1195021 - 01/25/09 06:42 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: JD338]
Redneckspride Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 294
Loc: South Jersey
I was going to say the same thing about our jersey yotes. 40 is a small one most are 50 and there was alot this deer season that went close to 55 or bigger. but again here in the southern part of the state a 50 yard shot is far

Avid your 20 miles north/east of me.
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#1195022 - 01/25/09 08:23 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: Redneckspride]
AviD Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
Quote:

Unfortunately, we can't use BB shot or number four BUCK shot for coyotes here in New Jersey. We can use number four BIRD shot, or 2 or T shot during the special coyote season only.






I believe the law says nothing smaller than 4 fine and nothing larger than T. 4 < BB < T, so BB should be fine to use, no?

Redneck, nice...do you get out often? Maybe we can hook up sometime. If you are on NJH, I'm under BowhunterNJ over there.

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#1195023 - 01/25/09 09:26 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: AviD]
KyCoyKlr Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 66
Loc: Kentucky
Humm! I had a pack of 4 very large feral dogs that I had to deal with this past year. They had killed one of my wife's cats, and one of the neighbors cats. With several small children running around the neighborhood it really didn't seem safe to have them running around. They were all 30lbs or so larger than my 65-70lb female golden retriver. Now with 4 90-100LB dogs running in a pack I had to do something. I killed three of them with 12ga 2 3/4" lead copper plated BB's Federal used to make them. The first two i killed before daylight one morning, one going about 10 steps after it was hit, and the other one made it into the neighbors yard about 75 yards down the road. There was no light when i shot those dogs, at about 35-40 yards and the second dog was shot in the back half of it. I tried to finish it while it was running down the road but pulled the shot. The third dog was in daylight(I COULD SEE THE BEAD OF MY GUN)and running broadside to me at 40 yards. I led the dog by placing the bead just under his jaw and pulled the trigger. WOW.... now that was what i was looking for. The dog's head went straight down his backside went straight over his head, and he didn't even quiver again. It is amazing how quickly a load of BB's even out of a standard full choke 2 3/4" load will kill a very large dog. These dogs were at least twice the size of a very large coyote and were very powerful dogs. I think any shot size #2 or larger will get the job done. Just make sure you hit them up front with a full load.

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#1195024 - 01/25/09 09:34 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: AviD]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
Quote:

Quote:

Unfortunately, we can't use BB shot or number four BUCK shot for coyotes here in New Jersey. We can use number four BIRD shot, or 2 or T shot during the special coyote season only.






I believe the law says nothing smaller than 4 fine and nothing larger than T. 4 < BB < T, so BB should be fine to use, no?




I stand corrected.
http://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/pdf/2008/dighnt61-71.pdf

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#1195025 - 01/25/09 09:39 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: 4949shooter]
AviD Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Mount Laurel, NJ
LOL OK, I was getting worried, I just ordered 2 boxes of Rem WM HD BB to try

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#1195026 - 01/25/09 09:43 PM Re: Eastern vs Western Yotes and Respective Shotgun Ammo? [Re: AviD]
4949shooter Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1605
Loc: New Jersey Republik
I don't know why the [beeep] I thought BB shot was illegal here. Must have been something I remembered from previous years.

Anyway, maybe next year we will be able to hunt through the end of March.

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