Sceery Predator Video - call with the wind at your back?

G

GJJ

New member
I just got done watching the Ed Sceery Video.

He says coyote hunting is the exact opposite of hunting deer. You hunt deer with the wind at your face. Coyote hunting, you hunt with the wind at your back. He said the reason is because coyotes almost always approach from downwind.

It is strange how you can get so many different opinions on something so fundamental. Do you think this is the difference between ecalling and handcalling? With an ecaller, you can place the call 75 yards upwind and the coyote will try to wind it. With handcalling, you ARE the caller. The coyote will come from downwind, so you might as well just call that direction?
 
As long as the visibility is good downwind, it doesn't matter whether it's out in front or off to one side. Hand call or e-caller you have to keep in mind where the wind is taking your stink. If you let a coyote get into your scent cone, the game is over.
 
GJJ,

I also believe in what Ed Sceery is telling you there. We almost always call with the wind at our back or a cross wind. Here are some reasons we believe this makes us successful:
-95% of all coyotes will circle downwind. Here in Missouri, the coyotes almost always have the option of circling downwind and therefore no matter what direction he comes from...once within 100-200 yards of the call, he will circle downwind of the call and/or you.
-We feel that "Coyote Education" is the biggest mistake made by all hunters (including us). A vital step in producing good responses on every stand is to keep education at a minimum. Therefore, if you can see (100-200 yards downwind of the call) then there is no reason a coyote can respond to your call and you won't get to see him (if we miss or get greedy in wanting him closer and the coyote runs off, that is our own fault). At least we know that we got a response.
-Simply put, he is more likely to come if he knows he can use his nose. Just as a deer is more likely to walk upwind rather than down ---- Walking with the wind is how you get killed.
-Lastly, here in the Midwest, it can get extremely windy --- especially out in Western Kansas. On a windy day, we feel our odds are better in calling with the wind rather than against it due to call volume.

The feeling of not knowing if you called something in but just didn't get to see it leaves a horrible taste in your mouth. Choosing your stand position is one of the few things in your control....make it the BEST!

Best of Luck!

Richie
 
Quote:
95% of all coyotes will circle downwind



That is a bit stong-IMHO?

As much as I like and respect Ed, I never have agreed with him on this one. I still set-up into the wind or preferably cross-wind. We are successfull too. The great thing about calling is that there are no absolutes.

Bob
 
No Qualms with your IMHO....Every area is different and in our experiences, the coyote may come from upwind, but as he gets closer to the call, he will move downwind.

We don't have some of the options that other terrain offers and likewise, some terrain doesn't offer the options we have here in the Midwest.

You hit the nail on the head with "NO Absolutes" and it also doesn't seem as if any "ONE" way is the right way.

No matter how you slice, it sure is fun when you get two ears bouncing your direction!

Richie
 
Alot of it depends. I don't have the option of watching a coyote circle down wind at 200 yards. Its to thick. I prefer a cross wind because alot of times they will only go 40 yards down wind which in some places I can still see them.
 
The only times I call w/ the wind in my face is if there isn't nothing really better or the easiest way for them to land in front of me is upwind.
When I 1st started, I wonder how many coyotes I really called in that I didn't know about.

I preffer a crosswind or wind at my back.

In Christ,

Song Dog
 
If the coyote sneaks in with out you seeing him or you don't shoot him at the first chance you get then yes I agree with the 95 percent idea. Whoever I hunt with can set up how ever they choose but I will be down wind getting ready to be the one that gets the shot. They cant trust there eyes they cant trust there ears but they can trust there nose.
 
I'm with rem870 on this one. I'll get crosswind of the e-caller in thick cover. If hand calling with a partner, I position them crosswind or downwind of me - the caller. When my Dad was hunting with me a lot he was my tail gunner. Dad went downwind and got about 40% of the shots on coyotes. Many of those were coyotes I would never have seen as a hand caller alone in steep terrain and thick cover. I try to use the terrain and cover to funnel the coyote to the call and place him in a position I can get a clear shot. Down here in the Ozark’s steep timbered ridges and brushy spring bottoms we don't have the option of wide open terrain and flat fields with near unlimited visibility. I certainly wouldn’t say 95% of my coyotes circle downwind. Probably more educated coyotes do run to the downwind side of the source of the sound. I doubt many of the coyotes I hunt have been called to before. I set-up crosswind in expectation that a coyote will attempt to circle downwind and some absolutely do so. But I get a lot of hard chargers that bust directly to the call. That is one of the reasons I use a shotgun so much, to handle those fast movers in your face.

TBR is obviously hunting northern Missouri‘s open crop lands. I guess coyotes have more maneuvering room in such terrain. I think that cover still has a role in how the coyote responds to the call if you use it to your advantage. Using brushy fencerows, draws, woodlots, ect. to give the coyote some comfort in responding to the call without exposing himself in the wide open fields may limit the coyote running downwind to get a sniff from the source of the calls. Otherwise, a smart old coyote might just swing really wide and far out to get downwind. Or, he may respond just close enough in what cover there is and just peeeekkkk out and hang up while still back in the heavier cover because he doesn’t want to get out in that open field. I dunno, different strokes for different folks and different situations and conditions lead to different experiences… /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
what i see is coyotes can come from any direction but at some point if not shot all will come down wind some at 5 yrds and some at 500 yrds.
i call sagebrush flats and rock piles and one more thing i see is most coyotes come on the path of least resistance
so planning that in your set up can help put them in front of you too when trying to funnel them to you.
one area i hunt has deep thick sage in the bottoms and it gets thinner on the side hill the coyotes almost always come threw the thinner sage or on the cattle trail going threw the bottom.
 
Some places i call have very hilly terrain & big timber the wind is in your face one minute at your back the next. You never know where coyotes are going to come from. all i do is get in the most open spot i can find & whatch all directions
 
The areas I hunt very seldom has any wind, most of the time it is a slight breeze. With a electronic call playing continuously, 95% of the time the coyotes come straight to the call from where ever they started from. Even when it would be easy for them to circle downwind they don't do it most of the time.
 
I always watch downwind unless I can get something like a creek or lake behind me to keep anything from coming that way. I know there are no hard and fast rules and there are always exceptions but in my experience they will come downwind most of the time.
 
This is the most "hot button" issue in calling predators in the Doctors opinion. Like everything else, each individual should hunt their areas with the techniques that work the best for them. That's what makes this sport so fun, there are no hard and fast RULES.
I have a couple questions in my continuing quest for information. For those who call downwind, could you help me with these?
1. How far do you feel your scent travels downwind with a 10 mph wind if you have been on stand for 5 minutes?

2. How far does the sound of your approach to your stand (ATV, vehicle) travel downwind with a 10 mph tail wind?

3. Does either distance concern you when you can see only 100-200 yards downwind?

Thanks, i look forward to reading everyones opinions.
Doc
 
1. Far enough that a coyote can smell me and stay out of chip-shot rifle range (inside 300 yds)... but they also don't seem to care much about scent at 400-600 yds.

2. This is more important than #1... if a coyote already knows someone is there... it's a lot more likely to circle... or not come in at all. If they can hear a call from close to a mile... they can probably hear you slam the door of your truck from that distance too. Don't even get me started on 4-Wheelers... I know I can hear one of those things from close to a mile sometimes, I can't imagine what they sound like to a coyote.

3. It's always a concern... even if I can see 1/2 mile downwind.
 

95% of all coyotes go down wind.I have heard statements like that for years and just don't see it.I've hunted coyotes in several states and usually unless you have used some coyote vocals or they coyote has been tipped off there is something up they go point a-b as quick as they can.
 
I get tickled every time I see people say I always call a certain way.

IMHO you are much better off keeping your options open and remaining flexible. There are just to many variables to consider to say this or that is the only or best way to do it everytime and in every circumstance.

Coyotes circling downwind is realative to just how close to the caller that they do this (5 yards or 500). Again to many varibles. I've called coyotes with every direction wind and done well ,but I must say I prefer to be able to see my downwind side. Use your head and try and think what the coyote will do before you blow the call. If you give him a yellow brick road to go downwind undetected he probably will. BUT if you give him the same yellow brick road to the caller and make it difficult or uncomfortable for him to go downwind guess which path he will take.

Always and never don't apply to coyotes and shouldn't to coyote callers either.

I agree with Okhunter in that I don't see 95% of the coyotes I call go downwind. I do however believe it is over 50%. This however is probably due to the way I set up and the way I call. I believe if you call coyotes from WAY OUT there in OPEN featureless country they are more apt to circle WAY OUT to the downwind side. Most of the country I call is pretty tight and the coyotes are close. In this circumstance, if they circle downwind it will be closer. Whether calling in open country or the thick stuff one should set up with this in mind by trying to either give him a yellow brick road to the call or denying or making it uncomfortable for him to circle downwind.

I call continuous for this reason as well. Lets suppose a coyote is 800 yards out and hears a 15-30 second sequence on a call and then it goes silent for a minute or two. He can't see it, hear it, and if he is not downwind he can't smell it. His instincts will tell him to go downwind, find the scent cone of the now silent rabbit and cone in on it. By keeping the distress sound more constant you give him a sound to home in on and he will often time seek the path of least resitance in responding. When he gets close enough he should be able to see it he will then be wanting some visual conformation. If he doesn't get it he will then often times go to the downwind side, but it is usually much closer than it would be if you were calling off and on with long pauses between you distress sounds.

With howling I often hear of guys giving a couple of howls out and then waiting for a couple of minutes before going to a few seconds of a distress sound and then pausing again for a minute or two. In my experience this is a perfect recipe to get 95% of your called in coyotes downwind.

Clear as mud?

Good Hunting, and God Bless,

Byron
 
Quote:

Always and never don't apply to coyotes and shouldn't to coyote callers either.

I call continuous for this reason as well. Lets suppose a coyote is 800 yards out and hears a 15-30 second sequence on a call and then it goes silent for a minute or two. He can't see it, hear it, and if he is not downwind he can't smell it. His instincts will tell him to go downwind, find the scent cone of the now silent rabbit and cone in on it. By keeping the distress sound more constant you give him a sound to home in on and he will often time seek the path of least resitance in responding. When he gets close enough he should be able to see it he will then be wanting some visual conformation. If he doesn't get it he will then often times go to the downwind side, but it is usually much closer than it would be if you were calling off and on with long pauses between you distress sounds.

Byron



Two excellent points there... the first I knew... the second, however, I had never thought of. Thank you for bringing this up... I have a tendancy to call a little and then shut-up and watch... heck, a lot of the time I don't even really call... just glass. I reckon that's why the coyotes I typically call in are working downwind.
 
I've never seen Ed Sceery's video. I suspect he was covering the beginner's basics. An entire series could be done on proper set-up. There are so many variables that should be taken into consideration. It might be best for a rank beginner to stick to the basics until he starts to gain some "in the field" experience. At some point a beginner will develop some "field" sense and be better at choosing stands, direction to face and why an animal comes from a certain spot on a certain route. I doubt if it could be taught in one video. Most of the videos I've seen use the KISS principle. Some videos go a step beyond. Don't over-analyze. You won't have any fun and predator calling will become more of a job. KISS, have fun and learn from your own experiences.
 
I think Byron hit the essence of it:

"I often hear of guys giving a couple of howls out and then waiting for a couple of minutes before going to a few seconds of a distress sound and then pausing again for a minute or two. In my experience this is a perfect recipe to get 95% of your called in coyotes downwind."

1. That is exactly how Ed Sceery calls. He uses handcalls and this is his experience.

2. It makes sense that people using ecallers calling upwind experience something completely different for the reasons Byron mentioned.

The coyote has 3 primary senses - sight, hearing, and smell.

Continuous calling - coyote less likely to go downwind. He primarily focuses on what he hears.

Intermittent calling - coyote more likely to approach from downwind because he needs to use his sense of smell to confirm what he heard that is not there now.

(I did not say "always")
 
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