Accurate Reloading Dies

Happy_Hunter

New member
Hi All
I have RCBS dies for my 22-250 and for the life off me I can't get it to shoot better than about an inch. I half neck, weigh each load, trim and use Nosler brass, ladder test, used various powders and projectiles, clean it, foul it, cool it. It just goes on and on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Its a Savage 12BVSS. Shot about 800 rounds.

After some sage advice I'm down to thinking its my dies. What's your advice on brand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Thanks
 
There are many variables in the accuracy equation, dies being one of them. But, until you've addressed every one of the variables, it's difficult to pin the rose on the dies you're using.
I personally use Wilson Straight Line seaters for bullet seating for all of my rifles. And I do a whole lot of other things to get the good accuracy I get. So I can't say that my good accuracy is a result of using Wilson Seaters exclusively.
You need to attack every one of the variables in the accuracy equation in order to attain good groups. I'm not saying that you should not buy a Wilson Straight line seater for you 22-250, I'm saying that it's just one thing to consider. I use a Wilson seater for my 22-250.
 
Hi Guys,
Dave Allen: 3 shot!

martyn4802: The rifle's been played with by a smith. I've done all but changed dies. I haven't checked concentricity, but that's just confirming the correctness of the dies.

What about Hornady dies. Are they OK. They have them here (Australia).
 
Quote:
Hi All
I have RCBS dies for my 22-250 and for the life off me I can't get it to shoot better than about an inch. I half neck, weigh each load, trim and use Nosler brass, ladder test, used various powders and projectiles, clean it, foul it, cool it. It just goes on and on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Its a Savage 12BVSS. Shot about 800 rounds.

After some sage advice I'm down to thinking its my dies. What's your advice on brand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Thanks




Don't pay no mind to what that Dave Allen fella said - the Woofs ate up his loading books and he ain't hit squat since!

Don't waste time on those five shot groups - they just make you look bad at the range. Even three shot groups aren't much better - stick to ONE shot groups - you'll look kewl at the range and save 80% on load testing costs...

(Da' Debble made me say dat!)

========

To start with, you can drop that ladder test stuff and work up loads the old fashioned way - ladder tests do not give you the best load for the rifle.

Second, the 22-250 is not kind to barrels, and at 800 rounds your 22-250 barrel has lost it's edge. So you might consider that you don't have a sub < 1/2" riffle any more (if you ever had one).

While RCBS are not the BEST dies, they are good dies, and certainly capable of loading ammo that will shoot smaller groups than one inch (even with five shot groups /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

There are some classic loads for the 22-250 that just about always shoot well - 35gr of H-4895 with a 52gr hollow point match (Sierra or Hornady) seated to touch the lands, would be a good place to start - if that won't shoot, then consider that you may have a barrel that is past it's prime.

.
 
I would check the concentricity before you change the dies. I have some standard RCBS dies that are within .002 every single pull. First check the loaded rounds. If they are OK, your problem lies elsewhere. If they are out of whack, check your re-sized brass. If there's a problem at that point, fix it. Once you get your brass true, check the bullet seating.

If you get all of the bullet stuff out of the equation, you can then narrow it down to form or the barrel. Form can be fixed and Savage barrels are relatively inexpensive.
 
I really like the Forster dies, but I doubt if that is your problem. I would experiment with powders and seating depth of your bullet. I had about the same problem with my Tikka 22-250....it was copper fouling. It took a LOT of work to clean out all the copper (prairie dog shooting), but the accuracy came back around.
 
nr123 makes a good point. Getting all of the copper out is a good place to start.
You said a smith has looked the rifle over.
Did he check the bore with a scope. If not, you might want to get a second opinion.

Lots of good advice here as far as dies and the ladder test goes.

Good Luck
 
[quote Second, the 22-250 is not kind to barrels, and at 800 rounds your 22-250 barrel has lost it's edge. So you might consider that you don't have a sub < 1/2" riffle any more (if you ever had one).




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Come on catshooter. I usually take your side on subjects but this has got to be a joke. I have a 22-250 with well over 1500 rounds and it hasnt changed one bit. Yeah we can all agree that they can be rough but 800 rounds. As long as your not pushing them at 3900+ and getting it cherry red you will be fine.
 
Quote:
[quote Second, the 22-250 is not kind to barrels, and at 800 rounds your 22-250 barrel has lost it's edge. So you might consider that you don't have a sub < 1/2" riffle any more (if you ever had one).




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Come on catshooter. I usually take your side on subjects but this has got to be a joke. I have a 22-250 with well over 1500 rounds and it hasnt changed one bit. Yeah we can all agree that they can be rough but 800 rounds. As long as your not pushing them at 3900+ and getting it cherry red you will be fine.



Not a joke - I have been through three 22-250 barrels and I'm on my 4th - I didn't say it was trashed at 800, I said it has lost it's edge, and it you look with borescope, it shows.

I'm really glad yours hasn't changed one bit in 1,500 rounds.

.
 
Dammnn Woof's anyway..Now i gotta start all over reloading book's are kinda spendy ya know..The in-tronet is much cheaper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'm joking guy's well sort of..

I'm with the poster's that suggested having a gunsmith check the bore with a bore-scope.

In my limited experiance with "savage" barrel's..I jumped on the Steven's 200 kick a few year's ago..Bought two of them..Cuzz everyone on the "net" pounded their chest's about how great thay are.

Mine were copper fouling "pig's"...No i don't own a bore-scope..I know i had to scrub & scub to get a clean patch.They shot ok..I did notice a decrease in accuracy as the bore's became more fouled.

If i was to guess the barrel is fouled..Or as Catshooter said barrel might be past it's prime..On the flip side 1" 3-shot group's will certainly kill thing's.It could be worse.
 
Catshooter,
I've only loaded the occaisional hot round. Never past 3800 and only a very few. My normal load is 3680fps and I let it cool. The fastest might be 5 rounds in 5 minutes and that'd be it. I don't expect that it'll be shot out.

Also, this thing has never shot .4s It's always been 1.0" using the same loading dies all the way through.
 
Cat did not say the barrel was trashed but was perhaps past its prime. It was not that long ago that a honest 1" gun was something to be cherished. But that was before "internet groups" became the established norm. Perhaps that as good as it gets.
 
Quote:
It was not that long ago that a honest 1" gun was something to be cherished. But that was before "internet groups" became the established norm.

Denny..ain't that the truth..I didn't have the "net" until about 4 1/2 year's ago,up to that time i figured an 1 1/2" group was the standard..Now all of a sudden it seem's everyone grab's an inexpensive rifle off the shelf & shoot's "dime sized" group's..Dunno ??
 
Quote:
Quote:
It was not that long ago that a honest 1" gun was something to be cherished. But that was before "internet groups" became the established norm.

Denny..ain't that the truth..I didn't have the "net" until about 4 1/2 year's ago,up to that time i figured an 1 1/2" group was the standard..Now all of a sudden it seem's everyone grab's an inexpensive rifle off the shelf & shoot's "dime sized" group's..Dunno ??



Just isn't true, we were shooting dimes taped to targets with our cheap savage
110's in 222 back in the 70's. There has always been great shooting guns out
there, cheap or otherwise. It's just expected now, back then it wasn't.
 
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Quote:
It was not that long ago that a honest 1" gun was something to be cherished. But that was before "internet groups" became the established norm.

Denny..ain't that the truth..I didn't have the "net" until about 4 1/2 year's ago,up to that time i figured an 1 1/2" group was the standard..Now all of a sudden it seem's everyone grab's an inexpensive rifle off the shelf & shoot's "dime sized" group's..Dunno ??



Well...

... that's because Woofs didn't eat their loading books /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It amazes me how many 1/4" groups are shot with $400 off the rack rifles and White box ammo these days...

.
 
My observations are that most rifles will out perform the person shooting them. I'm not talking benchrest and competition guys, but us run of the mill shooters.
 
It's a 1" barrel. There is nothing wrong with that for a factory barrel.

At 800 rounds it will take a lot(~10) shots to settle down and shoot it's best after a good cleaning. You have to fill in that alligator hide with copper.

Jack
 
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