Clean barrel and POI change

M

Mossberg 223

New member
I have a .223 Ruger all-weather that when the barrel is
freshly cleaned it will put the first shot about 2" high
and 1/2" to the left of where it is zeroed. The second
will split the difference and usually the third will be right back to zero. Since I live out in the sticks I have
killed more coyotes off my back deck than I've called in,
so this rifle has to be ready to go "at a moments notice".
My question is will it hurt a rifle to store a rifle with a few shots through it? Once it has a couple fouling shots
through it, it groups pretty darn good. Thanks, Roger London.
 
I would dry patch it, to get rid of the loose ash. The ash attracts moisture and is tough on barrels. See if your poi holds that way, and you should be OK.
 
I don't clean mine till acuracy starts to suffer, usually around 40-50 shots, no barrel will shoot the same clean as it does dirty. I have a savage 99 in 7mm-08, that will not hit a 40" circle from a clean barrel at 100 yards, after a couple shots its 1" high dead center above POA at that range, and will shoot a 1 1/4 to 1 3/8's group dirty.
RR
 
I have the same results on mast of my sporter weight rifles and when developing loads I note where the cold shot goes and its location has a lot to do with the load I use in the field. I will give up a little group size for a predictable cold shot. My best loads usally have the cold shot only shooting only a inch or less to the left of the main group. So in IMHO what your seeing is normal but you can probably tighten it up a little by tweeking your load or stop somewhere on the way to your first stand and put a couple in the ditch bank.
 
I clean my barrels a couple three times a year(don't shoot a whole lot). Instead of a good scrubbing, I use a nylon brush in appropriate caliber and "brush" it out followed by a dry patch to remove loose powder fouling.
 
Clean the barrel spotless then fire two rounds and put it away seems to work for most police sniper teams. A slightly fouled barrel will resist rust better than one that is clean.
 
Quote:
Clean the barrel spotless then fire two rounds and put it away seems to work for most police sniper teams.



I always fire a "fouling round" or two before sight in. I never take off hunting with a freshly cleaned bore. After I get my zero, I pop two to three more rounds for foulers. Then run one dry patch through and never clean it again until hunting season is over.

I sight in with all "cold bore" shots. Takes forever but it works. Just be careful not to confuse a "cold bore condition" with a "clean bore" condition. (Not trying to insult your intelligence, just wanted to point it out)

Bedding seems to help with the temp thing some too.
 
I run a patch of Lock Ease down the bore after a good cleaning. The graphite seems to tighten up the cold/clean shot POI shift. Usually less than 1"

I have read that you don't want to use it on stainless barrels for prolonged storage. I'm not sure about all of that but I know it has no ill effects on my blued barrels.
 
Quote:
I run a patch of Lock Ease down the bore after a good cleaning. The graphite seems to tighten up the cold/clean shot POI shift. Usually less than 1"




I use the same thing on my competition rig, a Krieger barreled 30BR. The matches are "one shot" at a 3/8" bull at 100 yards. Though I habitually fire two foulers prior to the start of the matches, truth is, I don't really need them. The foulers usually take out the bull and there is no noticeable POI shift.

If I know I'll be shooting a match within a week or so of cleaning the bore, I'll go ahead and run a patch of Lock Ease through it. If my next scheduled match is a couple (or more) weeks away, I wait till the day before the match to use the Lock Ease. As mentioned above, I'd worry a little about the powdered graphite attracting humidity if left in the bore much longer than that.

Mike
 
I notice little change if the barrel is dried after cleaning. Better quality barrels seem to be affected less that others.
 
Hi Roger,
If you gun consistently shoots to the same p.o.i after a cleaning, then just account for that via crosshair hold for your first shot...

Good idea to do the same for a cold, but dirty bore too. For your "moments notice" yote spanking...

I'd have to agree with the opinion that better quality barrels may not "wander" as much. Also read (and confirmed for myself) that shooting moly coated boolits helps with cold bore p.o.i shifts too.

Been keeping a log of all my first shot hits for my rifles and noticed that there is little to no shift in p.o.i since switching to moly'ed boolits. But don't take my word for it, here's two pics for proof...

First is of a 5 shot group (shot in 15 seconds) on steel @ 400yds with moly'ed 162AMAX, from a cold bore...7WSM
11-7026.jpg


Second is a 5 shot group (shot in under 15 seconds) on steel @ 100yds with moly'ed 60gr HP, from a cold bore...6x45
11-7014.jpg


Same-same for my other moly'ed tubes too. Coincidence?
 
Quote:
I notice little change if the barrel is dried after cleaning. Better quality barrels seem to be affected less that others.



A friend of mine that shoots the same matches as I do noticed the same thing with a couple of his bench guns. In fact, the POI shift was almost a full half-inch (substantial in a well-maintained bench gun). He, like I, always stored his rifles muzzle-down in the safe. He tried storing them muzzle up, and his POI shift with a clean barrel was cut about in half. His theory is that solvent residue in the lug recesses that he wasn't able to completely dry was migrating into the throat area when stored in the muzzle down position.

I, personally, can't tell a difference with mine, regardless of storage position. But, heck, it seems to work for him, and I've heard stranger theories. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mike
 
I believe that a lot of what you read on how guns shift point of impact is shooter related. The shooter starts to settle down with his grip, how much shoulder he has in the gun, trigger control, etc. This is especially true of guys that develop the habit of "slapping" the trigger.

It has been a really rare gun that I have fired that took more than two fouling shots to settle down, and the fouling shots were not very far off.

In my experience, the rougher the barrel, the longer it takes for the barrel to settle down, but even on the barrels that were rough as a wash board, 3 shots was all it took.

Barrels that are off more than 3/4" on fouling shots, get replaced QUICKLY!

Also, the wind is the dirty rat that often gives the false impression that the barrel needs fouling.
 
Matching the bullet weight to the barrel's twist, and using an optimal charge weight load recipe will go a long way toward reducing the CCB (cold clean bore) shot's point of impact.

When I began shooting 200 grain Sierra Matchkings in my LE2B Savage (with a 10 twist barrel) I noticed right away that the POI shift from CCB to fouled was almost non-existent.

I found the same thing on my .243 win, with Douglas 8 twist which I had built to shoot the 107 grain Matchkings.

Yall ain't gonna believe this... but here goes anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

100_0701-1.jpg


And this 100 yard target includes the CCB shot...
107smk2.jpg


So if you'll match the bullet weight to the twist as closely as possible, and develop the load using the OCW method (link my webpage below), you'll see a marked improvement in the CCB POI shift.

Dan
 
I never go back to work with a sqeaky clean rifle barrel. I will clean my rifle after each practice session, but fire 2 foulers before leaving. 700P
 
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