Azden questions - range and quality

d2admin

Administrator
I apologize if this has already been beat to death. I have searched the archives, read every post I could find on the subject, didn’t find the answers to my questions, so here goes.

I’m looking to build one of these MP3 based remote callers. But, I’ve got some fairly specific requirements for it and I’m not sure that the Azden wireless is going to get me there or not. For the record, I’m COMPLETELY without a clue when it comes to electronics. I don’t know how to interpret the specs at all.

Ideally, what I’m looking to build here would be a caller with robust remote capability, excellent sound quality and it would be easily reconfigured or upgraded as needed. Be able to switch from a very lightweight easily transported configuration with a horn speaker and no amp, to a “WT like” configuration featuring an amp and a big two or three way outdoor speaker for projecting high quality sound (at the expense of size and weight). In short, I want this unit to do it all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

My first question is just what is the range on the Azden units? In my archive search, I found this question posed several times, but found no answer. The specs in the catalog I have list the range at 250’. If that is true, I can cross the Azden off my list as that isn’t good enough for what I’m looking to do here. I’ve been using a Foxpro with remote for a couple of years and the range of the remote is one of the limitations I’m looking to overcome by building a new caller. What I want is a dead reliable range of 100 yds. By that I mean I can count on it working at 100 yds even under less than ideal conditions – like having a piece of sagebrush or two blocking direct line of sight. I know, I know, I know… You don’t NEED that much range to kill a lot of coyotes, but, for this project, it’s what I WANT and I’ll consider it a waste of money and effort if the finished product doesn’t give me this kind of range.

My second question involves sound quality. Without going into the whole debate about just how much quality is NEEDED, the fact is that for this project good sound quality is what I WANT. From reading all the archived posts, it does sound like the sound quality of the Azden would be sufficient. But, can Robb or anyone else help me out with a brief overview of how to read the specs on various units, relative to sound quality? Does VHF vs. UHF make a difference? How about all this “true diversity” stuff I’m reading in the catalogs? Which specs should I be looking for and what is “good”? There is another wireless lav mic setup I’m looking at here that claims a range of 1,000’ (“under ideal conditions”). It’s a Nady brand, 351VR/LT about $30 cheaper than the Azden. I don’t know how to read the specs to compare sound quality potential though. For all I know, it doesn’t really work any farther than the Azden and the sound quality is less.

Any and all input is appreciated!

- DAA
 
When Comparing stuff like this:

Signal to Noise Ratio: higher is better
Dynamic Range: higher is better
Frequecy response : Tricky ( gotta compare apples to apples, a wider range is better BUT you have to watch the "THD%" and the "+- dB" that go along with it.
Wattage output : tricky for the same reasons above
THD%: lower is better,
+- X dB: where X is lower is better
Peak wattage: (divide by 2 to give a real esitmate)

Tweaking the reported FR range, THD% and +- dB measurements are how all those cheesy car stereo companies can get away with claiming a 300watt amplifier with a 10 amp fuse :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The first thing to consider before you build is the weakest link, sound quality wise. Normally this is the Predator Call CD/Tape/MP3. Most distress recordings wont go higher than 14Khz or lower than 100hz, even if they are on CD and "digitally mastered" (which is a term that can be loosely thrown around. For instance, after using goldwave's noisegate function, my tape recordings to CD can be called "Digitally Mastered". Big Whoop, huh ? haha). Any capability of the system to produce sounds outside of the signal source range is just going to add potential system noise to the output.

Got that out of the way... You present some unique circumstances, and thats cool.

Just sent an eMail to Azden regarding the Freq Response Range. Ill report back what I find. Im thinking it wont be CD quality for hitting high-highs and low-lows for a "studio monitor" setup, but if you were using a horn speaker (250-15000hz), would be still quite generous.

If your looking for "studio quality sound", I wouldnt transmit the audio signal via radiowaves. Id rather have a remote "Function" control, where the source, amp and speaker are all hardwired and close together,

Something like this would require something like a car stereo amp (might be able to reduce weight by trimming off a lot of the heatssink fins on the body) and a 5aH 12volt project battery because the better speakers will require much more power to drive the speakers to useable volume levels.

I use to run a setup similar to this, with 2 6.5" inch woofers and 2 3x8 horn tweeters. But no remote. It was heavy but it did work.

Building the right size speaker boxes is a challenge, but if you buy good speakers, they will come with Data that will tell you what size and kind of box to build for given responses. Obviously youd rather buy speakers that require a small box (function of speaker Q, if I remember that right w/o looking it up)

I have heard claims of of over 150yards on the Azden, some claims more reliable than others of course. I have seen it work 100 yards in Real life.

=-=-=-=--=-=--=-=--==-=--=-=-=-=-=--=-

VHF lavaliere microphone system.
System includes WR-PRO receiver and WL/T-PRO lavaliere microphone with belt pack transmitter.
2-channel switchable VHF system (169.445 and 170.245 MHz)
LEDs on transmitter and receiver to confirm system status.
Over 200 ft. operating range
Allows the use of 2 systems simultaneously.
Earphone included to monitor sound being recorded.
8 to 10-hour battery life

WR-PRO RECEIVER:
Double superheterodyne receiver type
Non-diversity receiver format
Receiver plugs into camera's external microphone jack.
Includes shoe-mount and Velcro®.
WL/T-PRO LAVALIERE MICROPHONE/BELT PACK TRANSMITTER:
External antenna
2-channel switchable
Over 250 ft. operating range
Belt clip-on transmitter
Uses one 9V alkaline battery. (Not included.)
 
NADY Specs....

not bad.....
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--==--=-=-=-=-=-===-=
351 VR SPECIFICATIONS
Overall System Performance
Frequency Response ....................................................................................25 - 20,000 Hz ± 3 dB
Operating Frequency Range ......................................Choice of 5 channel between 170-216 MHz
Dynamic Range ..........................................................120 dB (max SPL to A-weighted noise level)
Harmonic Distortion ..............................................................................................................lessthan 0.3%
Frequency Stability ..................................................................................±.005%, crystal controlled
Modulation ..................................................................................................................FM, ± 15 KHz
Operating Range ......................................................Up to 250 feet (depending on site conditions)
351 VR Receiver
Controls ......................................................Headphone volume controls with unit OFF/ON switch,
Mute adjust, Audio output level adjust
Audio output ....................................................................................................600 ohm unbalanced
Connectors ..............................Audio output; 3.5 mm mini jack; Headset output; 3.5 mm mini jack
LED Indicators.............."TX" on; “LOW BATT”: unit "ON" (single flash), Low Battery Alert (steady)
Mute ............................................................................Externally adjustable; 1 µV preset minimum
Unwanted Signal Rejection ....................................................................60 dB image and spurious
Power Requirements ..............................................................................Single 9V alkaline, internal
Antenna ............................................................................................................Softwire, detachable
WLT-15 Lavalier Bodypack Transmitter
Audio Input ..............................3.5 mm mono locking jack for connecting to omni or unidirectional
lavalier mic or unidirectional head worn mic, with phantom power.
Controls......................................................................OFF/STANDBY/ON switch, input level adjust
LED Indicators ..................................................Unit "ON" (single flash), Low Battery Alert (steady)
RF Power Out ........................................................................50 mW (maximum allowed by FCC)
Harmonic and Spurious Emissions ....................................................................................greater than -40 dB
Battery ............................................................................................................................9V alkaline
Battery Life ................................................................................................................Up to 15 hours
WHT-15 Handheld Microphone Transmitter
Audio Input ................................................................Nady DM-10D neodymium dynamic cartridge
Controls ..................................................................................................OFF/STANDBY/ON switch
LED Indicators ..................................................Unit "ON" (single flash), Low Battery Alert (steady)
RF Power Out ........................................................................50 mW (maximum allowed by FCC)
Harmonic and Spurious Emissions ....................................................................................less than -40 dB
Battery ............................................................................................................................9V alkaline
Battery Life ................................................................................................................Up to 15 hours
 
Found one for 109$ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ... and to boot, the NADY has trim level controls on both the transmitter and reciever... which I dont think the AZDEN has but could sure use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The NADY might just be better than the AZDEN ?
(I think we need a volunteer.)
 
Thanks-a-bunch Robb. Exactly the kind of help I was hoping to get.

Do let me know if Azden gets back to you with more detailed specs, I couldn't find anything on them comparable to the specs provided by Nady. The comparison now is mainly sound quality driven - if the Azden works reliably to 100 yds that is sufficient range.

You did bring up something I'd considered and was hoping to hear I didn't have to worry about. That being going to a function remote. Not being capable of engineering or fabricating anything purely electronic to do that, I'd be looking at something like an RC model control and hooking up servos and stuff. Hard to imagine anytihing even approaching "elegant" along those lines coming out of my basement. I don't want to go there. So, reality says "studio quality" sound isn't happening, just have to get the best possible (within reason!) using radio waves to transmit the sound.

I've got more pondering to do, not to mention scraping up some funds (went a little crazy on new rifles the last couple months...). I think I just might volunteer to guinea pig the Nady wireless though - depending in large part on whether Azden replies to you and what they say.

Thanks again. Something else, totally un-related, a BIG thanks for your part in my Higgin's howler coming to fruition. It's drop dead gorgeous sexy!

- DAA
 
DAA,

Thank Rich for giving me a choice among "Three Beauty Queens" where even the runners-up are truly winners. Rich is certainly an artist/craftsman, among other kind descriptions.

A good friend once told me that everything a bombmaker ever needed was at Toys-R-Us and the Hardware store. Youre not making a bomb here, but this applies because you can buy remote-controlled cars/boats at a discount rate, where tearing them apart for the guts is a reasonable endeavour. Remote Range of course is related to to Price Im sure, but something to think about...

Search the web for some simple circuits/setups when you get closer (or deeper in thouhgt) to assembly, theres a lot of stuff out here. Something as simple as an ON/OFF remote can do wonders for little odds and ends.
 
The "PRO" Series is designed as a communication device and is excellent for the spoken voice, however, it is not designed for singing or recording music.

Azden

(I had specifically asked for the Frequency range #s but all they provided was what you see above.
My question was longer than their answer.)
 
Another remote to look at "adapting" for a project maybe would be those used for Dog Trainging Collars They would have the range, but are more expensive. Might get one used ?
 
That's too bad Azden isn't more forthcoming with the details. Dog training collar, hmmm, there's a thought. Probably could scrape one up used too.

Tack, I'm in no hurry, but not looking to wait around forever either. Just going to get it done as funds and decisions come together.

Thanks to the kindness of strangers, I'm going to be getting to road test an Azden unit firsthand here pretty soon. That ought to help me a LOT in deciding which way to go, or how far to pursue overcoming limitations.

- DAA
 
l16848.jpg
 
Robb,
Can you e-mail me please, I am interested in getting a nady but can not seem to find a place to get one. I will volunteer to be the guine pig /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
You can get one at www.markertek.com for $109.95.

If you want to hold off a bit, I'll be able to report on a direct comparison to the Azden. I've got an Azden here on loan, and ordered the Nady today. I'll compare them side-by-side for range and my subjective opinion of sound quality. If I like the Nady better I'll keep it, if not I'll return it and pay the difference for an Azden of my own.

I've also got one of the DCKits 7W amps on the way (and a 12v gell cell to power it). As well as some different speakers to try.

I plan on trying quite a few configurations, with amp and without (powering the amp with both a 9v transistor batt and the 12v gell cell), 7 watt speaker up to 25 watt, comparing them all directly - with the same sounds from the same player etc... Just kind of going to see what I can see. Hoping I'll end up with multiple "good" configurations. A super light/compact one without an amp, and another one with a heavier, higher quality speaker driven by the amp etc...

I'll report my observations and opinions as I form them. Not REALLY trying to re-invent the wheel, as many here have already done most or all of what I'm doing. I just want to see for myself how the various configuration options compare directly. Most of the parts are so innexpensive it really isn't that extravagent to try some different options.

- DAA
 
DAA, keep us posted on what you find out. I just got a Azden hooked up to my JS power pro caller and am curious about the quality of the Nady. I have a slight hum in my speaker using the Azden. I have tested it out to 100 yards with no problems and have seen one work out to 150 yards both of these test with a clear line of sight to the caller. Let us know about the Nady as I might give one of those a try also. Bruce
 
yacolt, from what I've read and what playing I've down with the Azden so far, it seems like that humming is related to the Powerpro (or amps in general). I know that just hooking the Azden I'm using up directly to a speaker, I don't get any hiss or hum or static. Nice and clear. Although, the sound itself is kind of muddy. I think part of that is the speakers I'm using are too big (have some smaller, lower powered ones on the way). But part of it is from the output quality of the Azden itself too, I'm sure.

I'll for sure keep y'all posted.

- DAA
 
http://www.nadywireless.com/products/video_pg.html

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--

151 VR SPECIFICATIONS
Overall System Performance
Frequency Response ....................................................................................25 - 20,000 Hz ± 3 dB
Dynamic Range ..........................................................120 dB (max SPL to A-weighted noise level)
Harmonic Distortion ..............................................................................................................less than 0.3%
RF Carrier Frequency ..................................One of four standard channels in the VHF high band
Frequency Stability ..................................................................................±.005%, crystal controlled
Modulation ..................................................................................................................FM, ± 15 KHz
Operating Range ......................................................up to 250 feet (depending on site conditions)
151 VR Receiver
Controls ......................................................Headphone volume controls with unit OFF/ON switch,
Mute adjust, Audio output level adjust
Audio output ....................................................................................................600 ohm unbalanced
Connectors ..............................Audio output; 3.5 mm mini jack; Headset output; 3.5 mm mini jack
LED Indicators.............."TX" on; “LOW BATT”: unit "ON" (single flash), Low Battery Alert (steady)
Mute ............................................................................Externally adjustable; 1 µV preset minimum
Unwanted Signal Rejection ....................................................................60 dB image and spurious
Power Requirements ..............................................................................Single 9V alkaline, internal
Antenna ................................................................................................................Attached Softwire
WLT-15 Lavalier Bodypack Transmitter
Audio Input ..............................3.5 mm mono locking jack for connecting to omni or unidirectional
lavalier mic or unidirectional head worn mic, with phantom power.
Controls......................................................................OFF/STANDBY/ON switch, input level adjust
LED Indicators ..................................................Unit "ON" (single flash), Low Battery Alert (steady)
RF Power Out ........................................................................50 mW (maximum allowed by FCC)
Harmonic and Spurious Emissions ....................................................................................greater than -40 dB
Battery ............................................................................................................................9V alkaline
Battery Life ................................................................................................................Up to 15 hours
WHT-15 Handheld Microphone Transmitter
Audio Input ................................................................Nady DM-10D neodymium dynamic cartridge
Controls ..................................................................................................OFF/STANDBY/ON switch
LED Indicators ..................................................Unit "ON" (single flash), Low Battery Alert (steady)
RF Power Out ........................................................................50 mW (maximum allowed by FCC)
Harmonic and Spurious Emissions ....................................................................................less than -40 dB
Battery ............................................................................................................................9V alkaline
Service for your Nady Wireless System
(U.S.) Should your wireless system require service, please contact the Nady Service Department
via telephone at (510) 652-2411 or e-mail to service@nadywireless.com for a Return Authorization
(R/A) Number and a service quote (if out of warranty). Make sure the R/A Number is clearly
marked on the outside of the package and enclose a cashier's check or money order (if not
prepaid with a credit card). Ship the unit prepaid to: Nady Systems, Inc., Service Department,
6701 Shellmound Street, Emeryville, CA 94608. Include a brief description of the problem you are
experiencing.
The warranty card enclosed with this system contains additional valuable warranty and
service information. Keep it in a safe place for possible future reference. Do not attempt to
service this unit yourself as it will void the warranty.
(International) For service, please contact the Nady distributor in your country through the dealer
from whom you purchased this product.
 
Could some one post pics and dimentions of the azden and the nady. I have been thinking about trying to install one on my dennis kirk caller. Want to know if I have room inside the unit or am I gunna have to attach it to the out side of the unit. Also , can I just run a cord from the unit (where the walk man plugs into) straight to the azden. Kinda like a head phone jack . Or is it more difficult than that?
 
Ed, from what I could tell, I think the range is better on the 351. I didn't price shop at all though (I hardly ever do - rather I "service" shop and buy where I think the service is good).

I got to try the Azden in the field yesterday. My system definitely needs some refinement, but I think I'm gonna like this thing. Rudy, I have to apologize, I called in several coyotes using your Azden, but we didn't kill any of them so I don't have any pictures /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif .

The configuration I took out yesterday is probably far from ideal, but it was what I had so far so I used it. Used a Samsung Yepp MP3 player (I DO like the player), an Azden and a 25W (RMS) Radio Shack 8" horn speaker. No amp. The speaker is just too big for the Azden without an amp, but like I said, it's what I have so far.

Sound quality with this setup is "okay". At low and mid-volume, I'd rate it actually quite good, definitely better than my Foxpro. But at high volume, it starts sounding pretty bad - muddy and distorted. And the volume isn't nearly as loud as the Foxpro. Equal to about "2/3 throttle" on the Foxpro.

Range on the Azden was disappointing. It has a telescoping metal antenna, like the old fashioned transistor radios. I did NOT deploy this antenna. I left it folded down in the storage position. For the way I use my equipment, that antenna is just way too fragile. No way it would last a season with me. If I end up using an Azden I WILL keep the antenna in the stored position. And, this is a borrowed Azden, so I especially didn't want to hurt it.

So, my range testing was with the antenna folded down. With brand new batt's in both Azden units, range was only 80 yards with a perfect line of sight. At 80 yards, just putting my hand in front of the transmitter was enough to block the signal. At 85 yards, it just didn't work. At 55 yards it would work with the transmitter blocked by my body. This is not quite as good as the range on my Foxpro. Which is disapointing, since one of the things I'm hoping to accomplish here is increased range over my Foxpro. I hope the Nady either has better range, or a more robust antenna.

I was flabbergasted at how quickly this setup sucked a new battery dead! Holy cow... By the end of the 3rd stand, the battery in the Azden reciever was struggling. Remote range was down to 30 yards and volume was down to very little. Now, conditions were not good for batteries
(20 degrees). I was packing a video camera, not a rifle, and my freshly charged camera battery was toast after 3 stands too. But, I'm used to my Foxpro lasting most of a season in these kinds of conditions. So it was a bit disconcerting to me when the caller sucked a battery dead so fast. No doubt that big old speaker played a role along with the cold. This is one part of the system that needs refinement and even then I suspect will end up being something that has to be lived with. Keeping plenty of fresh 9v's on hand is probably just the cost of doing business with this equipment.

All in all, despite the critisicms above, I'm fairly well impressed so far. I think with refinements I'm really going to like this thing. If I can get a little more volume while maintaining sound quality (I'm sure a better matched speaker and or amplifier will get me there) I'd be happy enough. Throw in some increased range (Nady?) and I'll be more than happy enough. Give me better battery life (gell cell) and I'll REALLY be happy.

- DAA
 
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