Obama camp: Lawsuits by citizens are 'garbage'!

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Obama camp: Lawsuits by citizens are 'garbage'
Legal challenges spring up across U.S., demand proof of eligibility for office

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Posted: November 13, 2008
By Chelsea Schilling
2008 WorldNetDaily

More than a half-dozen legal challenges have been filed in federal and state courts demanding President-elect Barack Obama's decertification from ballots or seeking to halt elector meetings, claiming he has failed to prove his U.S. citizenship status.

An Obama campaign spokeswoman told WND the complaints are unfounded.

"All I can tell you is that it is just pure garbage," she said. "There have been several lawsuits, but they have been dismissed."

WND is tracking the progress of many cases across the U.S., including the following:

Ohio

David M. Neal of Turtlecreek Township, Ohio, filed suit in Warren Common Pleas Court in October to force Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner to request documents from the Federal Elections Commission, the Democratic National Committee, the Ohio Democratic Party and Obama to show the presidential candidate was born in Hawaii, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported.

Warren County Magistrate Andrew Hasselbach denied Neal's request, saying, "The onus is upon one who challenges such public officer to demonstrate an abuse of discretion by admissible evidence – not hearsay, conclusory allegations or pure speculation."

Connecticut

Connecticut resident Cort Wrotnowski challenged the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate on Oct. 31, and asked the court to order Secretary of State Susan Bysiewicz to verify Obama's citizenship before allowing the candidate to appear on the state ballot. State Supreme Court Chief Justice Chase T. Rogers threw out the case for lack of jurisdiction within a half hour of reviewing it.

"I have not seen the ruling yet," Wrotnowski told WND. "So, in reality, the case was not heard on its merits. … Currently, we are assembling information for another and better try."

Washington

As WND reported earlier, Steven Marquis of Fall City, Wash., filed suit Oct. 9 in Washington State Superior Court, calling for Secretary of State Sam Reed to determine whether Obama is a citizen before Election Day. Marquis released a statement saying the state has the authority to "prevent the wholesale disenfranchisement of voters" who might have otherwise had the opportunity to choose a qualified candidate should records show Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen.

Marquis said Obama's Hawaii birth certificate isn't evidence that the president-elect is a natural-born citizen because it doesn't reveal the hospital where Obama was born, a doctor's name or the baby's footprint, the Associated Press reported.

Superior Court Judge John Erlick dismissed the lawsuit, claiming the secretary of state does not have authority to inquire about Obama's birth certificate. He also said Marquis failed to name Obama as a party to the lawsuit.

Get the book that started it all – Jerome Corsi's "The Obama Nation," personally autographed for only $24.95

New Jersey

In Leo C. Donofrio v. Nina Mitchell Wells, Secretary of State of the State of New Jersey, retired attorney and New Jersey resident Leo. C. Donofrio asked the U.S. Supreme Court for an emergency stay on Nov. 3 prohibiting three candidates from appearing on New Jersey's ballots: Republican candidate John McCain, Democratic candidate Barack Obama and Socialist Worker's Party candidate Roger Calero.

Donofrio claimed the candidates are not "natural born citizens" as enumerated in Article 2, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States, which states, "No person except a natural born citizen of the United States, at the time of adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President."

He wrote, Obama is not eligible for the presidency "even if it were proved he was born in Hawaii, since … Senator Obama's father was born in Kenya and therefore, having been born with split and competing loyalties, candidate Obama is not a 'natural born citizen' …"

"Republican candidate John McCain was born in Panama," the request states. "Socialist Workers Party candidate Roger Calero was born in Nicaragua. And the birthplace of Democratic candidate Barack Obama has not been verified by Respondent."

Donofrio said Panama has never been considered U.S. soil, and that McCain is merely a citizen at birth by statute, and not a "natural born citizen."

With three ineligible presidential candidates on ballots, Donofrio warned, New Jersey voters will "witness firsthand the fraud their electoral process has become."

Justice David Souter denied Donofrio's application on Nov. 6. However, his case is still pending as an emergency stay application. Donofrio is resubmitting his request for an emergency stay of the national election results and Electoral College meeting to Justice Clarence Thomas.

Pennsylvania

As WND reported earlier, prominent Pennsylvania Democrat and attorney Philip J. Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court three months ago claiming Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen.

Berg claimed that by failing to respond Obama has legally "admitted" to the lawsuit's accusations, including the charge that the Democratic candidate was born in Mombosa, Kenya.

U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick dismissed Berg's argument on Oct, 24, ruling that he lacked standing to bring the case. He said Berg's allegations were "too vague and too attenuated."

"This is a question of who has standing to uphold our Constitution," Berg told Jeff Schreiber of America's Right blog. "If I don't have standing, if you don't have standing, if your neighbor doesn't have standing to question the eligibility of an individual to be president of the United States – the commander in chief, the most powerful person in the world – then who does?"

Berg filed a writ of certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court on Oct.30, to force Obama to produce his birth certificate. Justice David Souter rejected an emergency appeal on Nov. 3, for the court to halt the tabulation of the 2008 presidential election results until Obama documented his eligibility to run for office. However, Souter set a schedule for a response from Obama, the DNC and all co-defendants on or before Dec. 1.

"I look forward to receiving Defendant Obama's response to the Writ and am hopeful the U.S. Supreme Court will review Berg v. Obama," Berg wrote in a Nov. 7 statement. "I believe Mr. Obama is not a consitutionally-qualified natural-born citizen and is ineligible to assume the office of the President of the United States."

Georgia

Rev. Tom Terry of Atlanta, Ga., appealed to the Georgia Supreme Court the day before the election to determine authenticity of Obama's original birth certificate and his qualifications to be president.

"I bear no personal ill will against Barack Obama," Terry, an independent, said in a statement. "In fact, his election solely on the basis as the first African-American president-elect is a very positive thing for our nation. However, as an American, I have very grave concerns about Mr. Obama's possible divided loyalties since he has strenuously and vigorously fought every request and every legal effort to force him to release his original birth certificate for public review and scrutiny. I think that is significant."

On Oct 24, Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter denied Terry's request for an injunction against Secretary of State Karen Handel.

"I don't think you have standing to bring this suit," he said. "I think that the attorney general has argued the law. I think he is correct. I think you are not a lawyer."

Terry is appealing his suit even though Obama didn't win Georgia because he said he wants to set an example for other states. He is asking the court to direct Georgia Secretary of State Karen Handel to decertify all votes for Obama.

"Hopefully, this action will be noticed by other states and they will also take a serious look at the meaning of Georgia's Supreme Court's actions," he said. "It is apropos that the Latin motto in the Georgia Supreme Court is interpreted: 'Let justice be done, though the heavens fall.' I think if the Court rules in my favor, that motto will come alive with meaning and impact."

Hawaii

On Oct. 17, Andy Martin filed a writ of mandamus in Hawaii's Supreme Court to compel Gov. Linda Lingle to release a certified copy of Obama's vital statistics record. His request to expedite the circuit court was denied on Oct. 22.

Martin now has a pending case seeking access to Obama's original 1961 typewritten birth certificate. The circuit court hearing is set to begin Nov. 18.

The saga continues …

Several unconfirmed reports also indicate that citizens of Utah, Wyoming, Florida, New York, North Carolina, Texas, California and Virginia have also filed lawsuits or requested court orders to verify Obama's citizenship status.

As reported earlier, WND senior investigative reporter Jerome Corsi traveled both to Kenya and Hawaii to investigate issues surrounding Obama's birth.

But his discoveries only raised more questions.

The governor's office in Hawaii said he had a valid certificate but rejected requests for access and left ambiguous its origin – leaving some to wonder if the certificate on file with the Department of Health indicates a Hawaiian birth or whether it was generated after the Obama family registered a Kenyan birth in Hawaii.

The Obama campaign posted a certification of live birth, a document stating the baby was born on Aug. 4, 1961. However, according to the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands, there is a difference between the two documents. A certification of live birth is not an authentication of Hawaiian birth, and critics say the procedure could have allowed Obama's mother to have the baby elsewhere, return to the U.S. and obtain the document in Hawaii.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands makes a distinction between the two:

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.
However, Andy Martin has specifically requested verification of the original 1961 type-written certificate of live birth – or, as the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands describes it, the "more complete record" of Obama's birth.

Further adding to complications, Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro, has named two different Hawaii hospitals where Obama could have been born. In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.

But a video posted on YouTube features Obama's Kenyan grandmother Sarah claiming to have witnessed Obama's birth in Kenya.

Seeking to settle the issue, Hawaii Department of Health Director Director Chiyome Fukino released an Oct. 31 statement saying, "State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

The statement does not clarify whether "the record" is a certification of live birth or a Hawaiian certificate of live birth.

Before the election, WND retained a top private investigator in Hawaii with extensive FBI training and tasked him with visiting both the Queens Medical Center and the Kaliolani Medical Center to investigate claims that Obama birth certificates existed at either hospital.

However, the private investigator reported that sheriff's deputies were stationed at both hospitals to fend off press inquiries about Obama's birth certificate.

When WND asked the Obama campaign spokeswoman why Obama simply hasn't released the original 1961 certificate of live birth to make the lawsuits go away, she replied, "I have no idea. I think they released what they chose to release, and Hawaii has confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, so I don't know what else you want."
 
They aren't too far off on the garbage comment. Whether you like him or not it's not very likely that the democrats, or any political party, would put up a presidential candidate that wasn't a natural born U.S. citizen. Why risk it. Especially coming off of a unpopular presidency where the election was all but handed over before it started.

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Marquis said Obama's Hawaii birth certificate isn't evidence that the president-elect is a natural-born citizen because it doesn't reveal the hospital where Obama was born, a doctor's name or the baby's footprint, the Associated Press reported.



What this guy is thinking of is the novelty hospital birth certificates that aren't actually valid as proof of citizenship. A legal birth certificate doesn't have to have the hospital or doctors name, nor the foot print. I'm not aware of any state in the union that has a footprint on a legal birth certificate. A legal birth certificate is only required to have the date, name, parents names, sex, county, and the state seal. There is a lot of leeway in how the states do it. My Montana bc only has what I listed earlier. My childrens Arizona bc's have the hospital listed and parents states of birth. My wifes North Dakota bc has a bunch of extra stuff including the name of the certifier.

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In Leo C. Donofrio v. Nina Mitchell Wells, Secretary of State of the State of New Jersey, retired attorney and New Jersey resident Leo. C. Donofrio asked the U.S. Supreme Court for an emergency stay on Nov. 3 prohibiting three candidates from appearing on New Jersey's ballots: Republican candidate John McCain, Democratic candidate Barack Obama and Socialist Worker's Party candidate Roger Calero.

Donofrio claimed the candidates are not "natural born citizens" as enumerated in Article 2, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States, which states, "No person except a natural born citizen of the United States, at the time of adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President."

He wrote, Obama is not eligible for the presidency "even if it were proved he was born in Hawaii, since … Senator Obama's father was born in Kenya and therefore, having been born with split and competing loyalties, candidate Obama is not a 'natural born citizen' …"

"Republican candidate John McCain was born in Panama," the request states. "Socialist Workers Party candidate Roger Calero was born in Nicaragua. And the birthplace of Democratic candidate Barack Obama has not been verified by Respondent."

Donofrio said Panama has never been considered U.S. soil, and that McCain is merely a citizen at birth by statute, and not a "natural born citizen."

With three ineligible presidential candidates on ballots, Donofrio warned, New Jersey voters will "witness firsthand the fraud their electoral process has become."



Due to the fact that Donofrio holds the office he does he should know better, and have the good sense to check the resources available. By not doing so he is in fact an idiot. Obama is not eligible for the presidency "even if it were proved he was born in Hawaii, since … Senator Obama's father was born in Kenya and therefore, having been born with split and competing loyalties, candidate Obama is not a 'natural born citizen' …" There are two legal principles that allow a person to derive U.S. citizenship. They are Jus Soli, and Jus Sanguinis. Jus Soli is the law of place, meaning that any person born in the U.S. or it's territories, or in U.S. waters is a U.S. citizen at birth. The only exceptions are the children of very high ranking government officials from other nations. Think ambassadors.

I'm not sure of McCains story. I'm assuming his parents were both U.S. citizens in which case he falls under the principle of Jus Sanguinis, the law of blood. Depending on the date of birth a child can derive U.S. citizenship with only one U.S. citizen parent, but if both are USC's it's a done deal. Additionally, with this guys logic being that McCain is not a natural born citizen because he was born abroad to American parents, no child of U.S. servicemen born while stationed abroad would be a U.S. citizen. How are you going to take that away from our servicemen. I can see it now, "sorry kid, you can't be president because your parents saw fit to serve their country." I can't even begin to express how angry that makes me.

As far as the other birth certificate stuff goes I'm not completely sure, but I think a persons birth certificate falls under privacy act information.

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When WND asked the Obama campaign spokeswoman why Obama simply hasn't released the original 1961 certificate of live birth to make the lawsuits go away, she replied, "I have no idea. I think they released what they chose to release, and Hawaii has confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, so I don't know what else you want."



If the state has verified it, where is the problem? I'm supposed to trust a fringe news organization more than the officials of a state?

Nate
 
"If the state has verified it, where is the problem? I'm supposed to trust a fringe news organization more than the officials of a state?"

A Democrat government official's words are not proof. ("I did NOT have sex with that woman...") A copy of a 1961 birth certificate is. Obama could end all these suits in 5 seconds if he'd simply produce that document. The fact that he chooses not to is very, very odd and has prompted all these lawsuits.

As to your criticisms of a "fringe" news organization, all it is doing is reporting the fact that these suits exist and updating their status. That is the function of news gathering organizations.

John McCain is a "natural born" US Citizen by virtue of having been born on a US Navy sub base in Panama, then a US territory, to his American mother and Naval officer father. Barry Goldwater was also eligible to be POTUS even though when he was born in AZ it was still a US territory.

I happen to pin little faith on these suits myself, but they are interesting and that Obama won't release a copy of the 1961 document seems very strange.
 
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John McCain is a "natural born" US Citizen by virtue of having been born on a US Navy sub base in Panama, then a US territory



Panama was never a U.S. territory. If it was or had been a U.S. territory EVERYONE born in Panama would have been a U.S. citizen, just like Puerto Rico. Under a congressional act in 1953 citizenship was granted to any child born in the Panama Canal Zone (not the entire nation of Panama) with at least one U.S. citizen parent. It also specifically excluded those born in the zone with no U.S. citizen parents. Due to the fact that both of McCain's parents were U.S. citizens the act doesn't matter. Also, being born on a U.S. military institution abroad doesn't grant someone citizenship. They derive citizenship abroad based on the citizenship of their parents. What does Goldwater have to do with this?

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A Democrat government official's words are not proof. ("I did NOT have sex with that woman...")

Saying all democrats are liars due to Clinton saying he didn't have sex with an intern is like saying all republicans are gay because Larry Craig tried picking up an undercover cop in a restroom. It's pretty flawed logic.

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Obama could end all these suits in 5 seconds if he'd simply produce that document.



I'm not an Obama supporter but put yourself in his shoes. Why lower yourself and validate these guys by releasing it. When the appropriate officials request it I'm sure he will. If he doesn't.....then there will be problems. Do you give out personal information to anyone that asks? I don't. As a law enforcement officer I won't be forced to give any information to anyone without a subpoena. I wouldn't expect anything different out of anyone else when it comes to personal information.

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As to your criticisms of a "fringe" news organization, all it is doing is reporting the fact that these suits exist and updating their status. That is the function of news gathering organizations.



I would consider most of what you have posted from worldnetdaily to be fairly out there. Just looking over their headlines right now it reads like the weekly world news: "Communist Party hails role of labor unions in Obama win," "Emanuel volunteers Americans to do 'a lot'," "Ex-Hitler youth issues dire warning to America," and my personal favorite "Liberals clinically mad, concludes top psychiatrist." All that is missing is angry cow knocks helicopter out of sky and wolfboy to run for senate. Don't try to say they aren't grasping for anything to attack the dems. Also your story isn't appearing on the more accepted media outlets such as Fox, CNN, MSNBC, or any of the major networks. I know most are slanted left but you'd think at least Fox would pick up on it if there was any substance to it.

Nate
 
I almost forgot.

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Before the election, WND retained a top private investigator in Hawaii with extensive FBI training and tasked him with visiting both the Queens Medical Center and the Kaliolani Medical Center to investigate claims that Obama birth certificates existed at either hospital.




That sounds like more than just reporting on the facts. Also, if they would go through all that effort to investigate earlier why wouldn't they do a little fairly simple fact checking to find out if the cited lawsuits had any validity? It wouldn't have taken much effort to find out what the naturalization laws have to say about the allegations.
 
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John McCain is a "natural born" US Citizen by virtue of having been born on a US Navy sub base in Panama, then a US territory



Panama was never a U.S. territory. If it was or had been a U.S. territory EVERYONE born in Panama would have been a U.S. citizen, just like Puerto Rico. Under a congressional act in 1953 citizenship was granted to any child born in the Panama Canal Zone (not the entire nation of Panama) with at least one U.S. citizen parent. It also specifically excluded those born in the zone with no U.S. citizen parents. Due to the fact that both of McCain's parents were U.S. citizens the act doesn't matter. Also, being born on a U.S. military institution abroad doesn't grant someone citizenship. They derive citizenship abroad based on the citizenship of their parents. What does Goldwater have to do with this?



The Panama Canal Zone was US territory until Jimmy Carter gave it away c. 1979. The Canal Zone, where McCain was born, is not the same as the entire country of Panama. You yourself pointed to the fact that the matter is resolved by statute, so clearly McCain is a US citizen and qualified to be the president of the US. Goldwater, once again, is an example of someone eligible to be POTUS who was not born in a US state.
 

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A Democrat government official's words are not proof. ("I did NOT have sex with that woman...")

Saying all democrats are liars due to Clinton saying he didn't have sex with an intern is like saying all republicans are gay because Larry Craig tried picking up an undercover cop in a restroom. It's pretty flawed logic.



Except I didn't say that. When a document exists there is no reason NOT to produce it and to instead simply take somebody's word for it. That isn't how the legal or business worlds function. You can have all the blind faith you want to in the words of politicians, I prefer to see the document and so would a court.

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Obama could end all these suits in 5 seconds if he'd simply produce that document.



I'm not an Obama supporter but put yourself in his shoes. Why lower yourself and validate these guys by releasing it. When the appropriate officials request it I'm sure he will. If he doesn't.....then there will be problems. Do you give out personal information to anyone that asks? I don't. As a law enforcement officer I won't be forced to give any information to anyone without a subpoena. I wouldn't expect anything different out of anyone else when it comes to personal information.

Candidates for POTUS regularly disclose such information. McCain sure did, your can look at a copy of the 1936 document here: http://panamajohn.dominates.us/articles/McCain_Certificate_1_1936x2.jpg

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As to your criticisms of a "fringe" news organization, all it is doing is reporting the fact that these suits exist and updating their status. That is the function of news gathering organizations.



I would consider most of what you have posted from worldnetdaily to be fairly out there. Just looking over their headlines right now it reads like the weekly world news: "Communist Party hails role of labor unions in Obama win," "Emanuel volunteers Americans to do 'a lot'," "Ex-Hitler youth issues dire warning to America," and my personal favorite "Liberals clinically mad, concludes top psychiatrist." All that is missing is angry cow knocks helicopter out of sky and wolfboy to run for senate. Don't try to say they aren't grasping for anything to attack the dems. Also your story isn't appearing on the more accepted media outlets such as Fox, CNN, MSNBC, or any of the major networks. I know most are slanted left but you'd think at least Fox would pick up on it if there was any substance to it.

Nate



Actually Fox News has reported quite a bit on these suits. That you consider MSNBC an "accepted media outlet" speaks to your perspective, no offense meant, but you are sure entitled to your opinion on a subjective matter like that. I just happened to find its reporting highly flawed. So do most viewers as its ratings are horrible. Again, however, we are talking about subjective opinion here and mine isn't any better than yours. Everybody in my family has always considered me nuts because I don't like pudding, too, so there ya go.
 
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I almost forgot.

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Before the election, WND retained a top private investigator in Hawaii with extensive FBI training and tasked him with visiting both the Queens Medical Center and the Kaliolani Medical Center to investigate claims that Obama birth certificates existed at either hospital.




That sounds like more than just reporting on the facts. Also, if they would go through all that effort to investigate earlier why wouldn't they do a little fairly simple fact checking to find out if the cited lawsuits had any validity? It wouldn't have taken much effort to find out what the naturalization laws have to say about the allegations.



That is researching and unearthing facts, so I see no problem. Investigative journalism. This is what news agencies are supposed to do. Did you notice the army of MSM reporters and reporterettes who decended to Wasilla, AK to look for dirt on Sarah? This at least has a basis in fact and isn't just a fishing trip like the AK stuff was.

BTW, on McCain, I misspoke in my post and want to correct myself. The Canal Zone was US territory, not a US Territory. My mistake, and I want to correct the record. The original point stands, though, irrespective of my error. McCain's eligibility was also confirmed by the US Senate, so the matter is really moot.
 
Wow, why in the world would you want to know if someone should be qualified to lead the free world. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Heck, I wonder if he is even 35? Oh wait, I bet that qualification doesn't apply now either. Please vote for my son in 2012. He will be 18. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

By today's standards of choice, if we put an 18 year old black man up for election, he would get it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
This is going to be my last post on this. Just like some of your other threads this is getting silly. I thought you were posting these news articles for people to comment on. I did comment on it, and actually brought up the legal issues and principles invalidating the claims of the quacks in the article. I never said a word about you. I did question the validity of the news source that you regularly post on here, just like others have. You saw fit to come back at me and try to invalidate what I said with falsehoods and innacurate facts (i.e. that the Republic of Panama was a U.S. territory, which you've correctly rescinded). It's pretty plain to see that you don't post these articles for comment, at least not all of them. It's pretty apparent that you post more than a few of these just to try to bait someone into a fight.

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A Democrat government official's words are not proof. ("I did NOT have sex with that woman...")


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Saying all democrats are liars due to Clinton saying he didn't have sex with an intern is like saying all republicans are gay because Larry Craig tried picking up an undercover cop in a restroom. It's pretty flawed logic.


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Except I didn't say that. When a document exists there is no reason NOT to produce it and to instead simply take somebody's word for it. That isn't how the legal or business worlds function. You can have all the blind faith you want to in the words of politicians, I prefer to see the document and so would a court.




By specifying that a "Democrat government officials are not proof" and citing the Clinton incident you did say that. If you had simply said a government official I would have bought your argument, but when you specify democrat your intent is plain to see. You can practice all of the revisionist history you want on your posts but I, for one, won't buy it. For the record Obama did provide a copy of his birth certificate.

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Actually Fox News has reported quite a bit on these suits. That you consider MSNBC an "accepted media outlet" speaks to your perspective, no offense meant, but you are sure entitled to your opinion on a subjective matter like that. I just happened to find its reporting highly flawed. So do most viewers as its ratings are horrible. Again, however, we are talking about subjective opinion here and mine isn't any better than yours. Everybody in my family has always considered me nuts because I don't like pudding, too, so there ya go.



By accepted media I mean mainstream. I don't think you could make an argument that more people would consider WorldNetDaily more accepted than MSNBC. Don't say "no offense" I understand what your intentions are so cut the passive aggressive crap. Don't assume my perspective. I like the fact that out of all the news outlets I listed you assume that MSNBC is my news network. I haven't watched MSNBC since they fired Don Imus for no valid reason a week prior to his fundraiser for childrens charities. Due to the nature of it's programing I can't invalidate it as a news source. Don't forget, the purpose of news networks is news and not politics. It's politics might be flawed, like all of the networks, but it's content is still generally accepted as news by a broad spectrum of people. Also, during the election Fox reported on the citizen thing from time to time but not like your article here.

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BTW, on McCain, I misspoke in my post and want to correct myself. The Canal Zone was US territory, not a US Territory. My mistake, and I want to correct the record.




Exactly. Also, if we are concerned about the record, at one point in this you claimed Panama as U.S. territory and not just the canal zone. That was a surprise to the Panamanians. Normally I wouldn't split hairs like this but, since I was essentially attacked unprovoked by an individual who is ALWAYS RIGHT, I'll make an exception.

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The original point stands, though, irrespective of my error. McCain's eligibility was also confirmed by the US Senate, so the matter is really moot.




I never argued his citizenship, in fact, I defended it.

Like I said before, this is it from me on this thread. Knock yourself out big guy.

Nate
 
"I can see it now, "sorry kid, you can't be president because your parents saw fit to serve their country." I can't even begin to express how angry that makes me."

That's exactly what that moron is trying to say to McCain since his father was an officer in the US Navy at the time.

As for Bambam, his mother was born in USA (natural born citizen) but by their "logic" lost her citizenship because she married a foreigner. I don't think so, much as I wish it was so.
 
"I thought you were posting these news articles for people to comment on. I did comment on it, and actually brought up the legal issues and principles invalidating the claims of the quacks in the article. I never said a word about you. I did question the validity of the news source that you regularly post on here, just like others have.'

When you use bombastic rhetoric like "quacks" and you call into question the validity of a news organization that is reporting on lawsuits, that you apperantly don't happen to agree with, then people will ask you to support your position. BTW, you don't seem to like the news source, but you never did show that their reporting was inaccurate in this or any other stories--you provided no evidence, just expressed your belief that it is. You pointed out no factual inaccuracy in the article. Nor has EastCoastHunter, the other person who says he dislikes worldnetdaily.

BTW, there is really no reason to adopt such a nasty tone: " Don't say "no offense" I understand what your intentions are so cut the passive aggressive crap."

I don't engage in "passive aggressive" behavior. I say what I mean and mean what I say, always have, always will. I say "no offense" because when posting on the internet simply because a poster's tone and demenor are not displayed in writing the way they are in real life, face-to-face. I use phrases like that to convey to readers my sentiments, otherwise it is real easy to sound nasty.

I try to be polite here, even to those with whom I disagree.
 
Obama can put this whole argument a side right now by producing a birth certificate that everyone can agree on.

He hasn't done so as of this post.

Why?

This could be so easily put to bed.
 
It really doesn't for me because HE won't do the talking.

I know if someone or the media challenged my BIRTH RIGHT I'd be in there face.

He hasn't been.

I not saying he wasn't born in Hawaii either-I am saying Obama could settle this once and for all and has elected not to.
 
Are you saying that you don't accept any of the following statements as satisfactory?
We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

Analysis
Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
 
Sorry Al, as I'm sure you are, I too am tired of all the BS regarding the birth certificate. However, please,please research your sites before using them as a reference.Factcheck was created by the Annenberg foundation,ultra liberal, in the tank for moveon.org and the leftist cause.Hardly a source of unbiased truth.Mr. mister I'm with you on this, it would be so simple to produce it to a group of truly UNBIASED individuals, let's say during a televised news conference and put this thing to bed once and for all.Why he won't and never has done this makes most of us suspicious.I seriously doubt that at this point that the election would ever be overturned anyway.Its just one more example of suspicious activity that warns us of bad times ahead.It appears he believes the poor pathetic little people in this country will soon forget if he keeps up his charade.Now no one here would ever accuse me of being an Obama man, but I would be just as adamant regardless of the person in question. Its our law and we deserve a verifiable answer.
 
BREAKING NEWS....NEW CA LAWSUIT!

CHANGING OF THE GUARD
'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location
Alan Keyes lawsuit warns America may see 'usurper' in Oval Office


To view this item online, visit http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=80931

Saturday, November 15, 2008

By Bob Unruh

WorldNetDaily

The California secretary of state should refuse to allow the state's 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until President-elect Barack Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office, alleges a California court petition filed on behalf of former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others.

The legal action today is just the latest is a series of challenges, some of which have gone as high as the U.S. Supreme Court, over the issue of Obama's status as a "natural-born citizen," a requirement set by the U.S. Constitution.

WND senior reporter Jerome Corsi even traveled to Kenya and Hawaii prior to the election to investigate issues surrounding Obama's birth. But his research and discoveries only raised more questions.

The biggest question is why Obama, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists, simply hasn't ordered it made available to settle the rumors.

The governor's office in Hawaii said there is a valid certificate but rejected requests for access and left ambiguous its origin: Does the certificate on file with the Department of Health indicate a Hawaii birth or was it generated after the Obama family registered a Kenyan birth in Hawaii?

Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro, has named two different Hawaii hospitals where Obama could have been born, while a video posted on YouTube features Obama's Kenyan grandmother Sarah claiming to have witnessed Obama's birth in Kenya.

The California action was filed by Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation on behalf of Alan Keyes, the presidential candidate of the American Independent Party, along with Wiley S. Drake and Markham Robinson, both California electors.

"Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void, Petitioners, as well as other Americans, will suffer irreparable harm in that (a) usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal," the action challenges.

The petition is a request for the Superior Court of California in Sacramento County to issue a peremptory writ barring Secretary of State Debra Bowen "from both certifying to the governor the names of the California Electors, and from transmitting to each presidential Elector a Certificate of Election, until such documentary proof is produced and verified showing that Senator Obama is a 'natural born' citizen of the United States and does not hold citizenship of Indonesia, Kenya or Great Britain."

It continues with a request for a writ barring California's electors from signing the Certificate of Vote until documentary proof is produced.

An Obama spokesperson interviewed by WND described such lawsuits as "garbage."

The popular vote Nov. 4 favored Obama over Sen. John McCain by several percentage points. But because of the distribution of the votes, Obama is projected to take the Electoral College vote, when it is held in December, by a 2-to-1 margin.

Named as defendants in the action are Bowen, Obama, vice president elect Joe Biden and the long list of California party electors.

Citing the constitutional requirement that a president be a "natural born" citizen, the case discusses other state and federal court cases regarding "aspects of lost or dual citizenship concerning Senator Obama. Those challenges, in and of themselves, demonstrate Petitioners' argument that reasonable doubt exists as to the eligibility of the Democratic Party’s nominee for President," the case said.

"There is a reasonable and common expectation by the voters that to qualify for the ballot, the individuals running for office must meet minimum qualifications as outlined in the federal and state Constitutions and statutes, and that compliance with those minimum qualifications has been confirmed by the officials overseeing the election process," the complaint said, when in fact the only documentation currently required is a signed statement from the candidate attesting to those qualifications.

"Since [the Secretary of State] has, as its core, the mission of certifying and establishing the validity of the election process, this writ seeks a Court Order barring SOS from certifying the California Electors until documentary proof that Senator Obama is a 'natural born' citizen of the United States of America is received by her," the document said.

"This proof could include items such as his original birth certificate, showing the name of the hospital and the name and the signature of the doctor, all of his passports with immigration stamps, and verification from the governments where the candidate has resided, verifying that he did not, and does not, hold citizenship of these countries, and any other documents that certify an individual’s citizenship and/or qualification for office.

"To this date, in this regard, SOS has not carried out that fundamental duty."

The case said a simple attestation from the candidate or his party isn't sufficient.

"Historically, California Secretaries of State have exercised their due diligence by reviewing necessary background documents, verifying that the candidates that were submitted by the respective political parties as eligible for the ballot were indeed eligible. In 1968, the Peace and Freedom Party submitted the name of Eldridge Cleaver as a qualified candidate for President of the United States. The then SOS, Mr. Frank Jordan, found that, according to Mr. Cleaver's birth certificate, he was only 34 years old, one year shy of the 35 years of age needed to be on the ballot as a candidate for President. Using his administrative powers, Mr. Jordan removed Mr. Cleaver from the ballot. Mr. Cleaver unsuccessfully challenged this decision to the Supreme Court of the State of California, and, later, to the Supreme Court of the United States."

Similarly, in 1984, the Peace and Freedom Party candidate Larry Holmes was removed from the ballot.

The "certificate of live birth" posted by the Obama campaign cannot be viewed as authoritative, the case alleges.

"Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence," the document said. "The only way to know where Senator Obama was actually born is to view Senator Obama's original birth certificate from 1961 that shows the name of the hospital and the name and signature of the doctor that delivered him."

The case also raises the circumstances of Obama's time during his youth in Indonesia, where he was listed as having Indonesian citizenship. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, raising the possibility of Obama's mother having given up his U.S. citizenship.

Any subsequent U.S. citizenship then, the case claims, would be "naturalized," not "natural-born."

"Based on all of the above, it is the duty of the SOS to obtain proper documentation of Senator Obama's citizenship to confirm his eligibility for the office or the President of the United States," the case said.

Just this week, WND has reported on more than half a dozen other legal challenges have been filed in federal and state courts demanding Obama's decertification from ballots or seeking to halt elector meetings, claiming he has failed to prove his U.S. citizenship status.

Among the states where cases are being tracked are Ohio, Connecticut, Washington, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Hawaii, and there were reports of other cases being developed in Utah, Wyoming, Florida, New York, North Carolina, Texas, California and Virginia.
 
Quote:
The biggest question is why Obama, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists, simply hasn't ordered it made available to settle the rumors.




This has been my only point.

Produce the document-let everyone agree it's real-and move on.

If it's real he won!

So simple, my 10 year old daughter and 11 year old son have even figured it out-produce the darn document!
 
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