Hey, teachers! Leave them kids alone!

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There are a few things about our teachers union I disagree with, but many things I can not live without. I have been a member of Arizona's Educational Association (AEA) for my entire teaching career as are many staunch Republicans.



check out CEAI - they will do the same thing for a lot less money and they do not provide support to the ultra-liberals.


CEAI's website

RB
 
After your last post, I now (along with everyone else) see the motivation behind your anti-public education thread. It is unfortunate a moderator of a site as large as this would disparage hard working ambitious Americans at whatever job they choose to pursue. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Fortunately for the membership of this site there is a educated public school teacher willing to stand up to the false accusations and misinformation you post as through it was the end-all to the topic.

I stand behind what I initially said in that...

Let's not get carried away here. This is not typical.

Your average teacher, especially in elementary school, cares about their student's well being.

If this teacher were in an American public school, they would brought before a state judiciary board and probably would loose their state teaching certificate.


I would never think to support a teacher that goes against their state and district's standards and curriculum. It appears that the teacher in the video above is overstepping her duties as an educator on many levels, and in doing that, would be subject to disciplinary measures from her administration and even the state in which she teaches.

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What's false, this didn't happen? The little girl is imaginary? What we are watching happen to her didn't occur? Trick photography?

What's false, exactly?




If you would read for comprehension rather than to find fault with someone's post you would realize that I was not referring to the video but to comment and inferences you made.

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...All the schools need is more money...



Actually more money would be nice so the students could have computers and such but I would settle for students who came to school having eaten breakfast or students who don't have to deal with a drunk father at 11 pm the night before or a family life stable enough that they can get help from their mother or father when they need it. People are quite refer the decline of society's values and how the traditional family unit is falling apart but refuse to understand the impact this has on the education of today's youth.

Send me a 5th grader who's parents care about their education enough to not allow them to play on their XBox 360 every waking moment. Let me have a crack at teaching a classroom full of students who's parents care enough about their education to come to a parent teacher conference. Show me a parent involved in their kids life at more levels than just disciplining them or making them do the dishes and I'll show you a parent who's kid will make a contribution to society. Most parents don't give a [beeep]. I work like a dog getting kids like the ones mentioned above to be able to do what 4th-5th graders across the nation are expected to do academically. I work probably 45-50 hours a week if I include the time I grade at student's work at home.

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Want to cut through my 'rhetoric' and see in that union's own words what it stands for? Here, try this on for size, it is from their OWN website and this shocking list of horrors cites the teachers' uber-Liberal positions on issues--most of which have NOTHING to do with education like, for example, gay 'marriage.' if you don't like my 'rhetoric' just read theri own words:



As I said in a previous post but you do not catch, I do not support all of NEAs actions.

Let's talk at a simplistic level for a while. Enough posting of articles that are not the norm in education. Enough grand standing and stereotypical banter.

1 hours ago I sat a table of teachers for lunch. Having just read your reply to my post I had it on my mind and asked these teachers some questions to see if I am off-base on this entire thing. Here is how the conversation went.

Scott- who here is a member of NEA?

Teachers replies- 3 yes, 4 no.

Scott- Do you feel that the NEA has any influence over what you teach in your classroom?

Teachers- How could they influence what I teach, said one teacher. The state decides the curriculum, another teacher said. One teacher said something like, each state individually decides what is to be taught.. NEA is a union.

Scott- I was told recently the NEA donated $1,000,000 in support of gay marriage. Did you know that?

Teachers- I never heard that, one teacher said. They'd have to put that to a vote, another said. I would challenge that ever happened another teacher replied.

We discussed this stuff for a while. By the end I realized none of these NEA or non-NEA teachers were influenced by the unions at a local, state or national level.

NEA, AEA, and locally with the GEA do not influence curriculum at a national, local or a state level. What this means to the parent of a public school student? Even if the NEA did support gays the union can not and does not make anyone follow their their agenda.

You cite a few articles where out of the norm occurrences happened such as the teacher who took her class on a field trip to see a gay marriage. No public educator in Arizona would ever even consider something so far out in left field.

Based on your posts here one can make the assumption that-

You think all teachers are liberals. That is IGNORANT. That's like saying all hunters are redneck hillbillies, or the stupid claim that all hunters hate animals and must never have had a pet as a child.

You lump all teachers as NEA members, which is 100% false.
There are more teachers who are not members than ones that are.

You think that the NEA decides what teachers teach in their classrooms. 100% false

You wont get me to argue that the NEA does not have some viewpoints I disagree with but you can not refute the support I get from them as a teacher. I get way more benefits from their annual fees than negative things.

Let me try this again. What do you do for a living? I'll bet I don't know as much about your profession as you do. Why? Because you do it every single day for the past several years. Odd how you can't seem to realize that about my profession.
 
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There are a few things about our teachers union I disagree with, but many things I can not live without. I have been a member of Arizona's Educational Association (AEA) for my entire teaching career as are many staunch Republicans.



check out CEAI - they will do the same thing for a lot less money and they do not provide support to the ultra-liberals.


CEAI's website

RB



Interesting site. I will read through some of their material. Unfortunately the NEA, AEA, and GEA are all combined i my district. Supporting 1 by paying dues supports all at all 3 levels.
 
Interesting enough, last year Predator Masters supported the activities in my public school classroom 100%.

I had some pelts donated by some PM members and did an entire math lesson on measuring. Then we used maps of the USA and tracked where the coyotes came from. The results of the lesson I included in a thread and posted many great pictures. Several moderators and influential people in the predator calling industry left positive comments.

nmleon- Great job, those kids are LEARNING.

Weasel-UT- The kids look like they are really into it. Good going!

All Predator Calls- Great job. I hope your hands on approach to teaching rubs off on the faculty.. Bet these kids will remember this project for many years.

Tim Lewis (soreloser)-Good for you, good for the kids and an outstanding job as always by the PM members.

Having lived in AZ and my wife being in school teacher in AZ for a number of years I can completely relate with what you have done for these kids.

Toy Tebbe- I've been waiting for this post Scott. One of the best posts I've read in a long time.

Very cool of you and those who donated!

jimanaz- Wish I could think of something snappy to say....think I might be speechless. What an outstanding job by the contributors and the educator.

CoyoteDoc1- Great work Hyper, just curious, after all that measuring and work the kids put in, where was the biggest coyote from? The smallest?

Redfrog- Wow! you guys really know how to support the youngsters. Hyperwx, let me know how many more you need and Predator Masters will get them to you.

Funny to think that NEA has ANYTHING to do with what I teach in my classroom. I am a conservative pro-gun pro-hunting fun teacher that took my class plus 2 other classes + 20 adult volunteers to Bass Pro Shops last year for a field trip where they did a giant math activity on desert survival and spending money. I have a full cheetah pelt rug on my classroom wall along with a beautiful jaguar pelt taken in Mexico.

You can cry all day about public schools and how corrupt and liberal they are but all this flies in the face of what am showing you here.

pelts1.jpg


pelts3.jpg


pelts8.jpg


pelts9.jpg
 
Just understand that there was nothing on here directed directly towards you, O.K.. Besides, you know how it is with any profession, there are always a few bad apples that taint us all! I should know, I drive a truck for a living and we have a bad rap because of a few!
 
Two months ago my step daughter comes home from school, the news comes on talking about Obama so she says she really likes him. I asked her why and her response was "our teachers were telling us about him" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif So two months pass with my wife and I re-educating her on some more facts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. That was tough. Yesterday she comes home from school and says her teachers want the kids to write a letter to Osama...oops Obama, saying how much they really like him and congratulate him for the win /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif She told her social studies teacher she won't do it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I don't want her to be telling a teacher what she will and will not do but this time she has my support 100% and the school will be getting a call Monday morning letting them know she has my support. And a few other well chosen words.
 
I don't want my kids teachers introducing their politics into the classroom whether I agree with them or not. I don't really think a public classroom is the place for that sort of thing.

Nate
 
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What do you do for a profession? Are you a public school teacher?



No, but I think he is a parent.

You are starting to sound alot like the "I know what needs to be done because I'm a teacher", which is quickly followed by the "I can't do my job properly because of the kids life at home.....it's the parents fault"

Java's point, as I take it, is that the system is broken. It is a system that employs teachers like this Harris, and pays her with our tax dollars. Is she representative of all teachers, no. Is she representative of whats wrong with the system, yes!

I understand your defence of your individual job performance. You probably are a good teacher, but since you don't teach any of my kids, I don't know. My exwife(high school teacher) and I agree on few things, but we both agree on the poor shape of our public school system. Her opinion is alot harsher than the 'few flaws' you feel there are.
 
My time to jump in.

There are a lot of excellent public school teachers in this broken system, and there are a lot of horrific examples of people who are licensed as teachers but fail in their duties to teach. If I indoctrinate the child, I have failed the child. Indoctrination does one thing pretty well, it perpetuates ignorance, whether it be in the school or in the church (I happen to be both a public school teacher and a pastor). My desire is not indoctrination, it is education.

I AM NOT defending any example of bad "teachers" (and I use the term loosely) failing at what they have been hired to do, and I am not coming to the rescue of the broken system.

Public education works best when parents are actively involved, not only in the child's life, but also in the school and continually with the child's teachers.

If we would return to the ideas of teaching our children to think (which the "teacher" in the original post could have done with her questions, instead of berating and belittling the little girl), we might have something when we are finished.

One of my desires as an educator and as a pastor is to get past the ideas of I believe this because my mom and dad, grandma, grandpa, uncle, etc. said so. Until we actively engage our minds and begin to examine the evidence for ourselves, we are hopelessly spiraling downward.

I asked a student just this week, who was praising the bit O for his win, why it was a good thing that he was elected. I asked him several pointed questions, not to belittle him, not to belittle Obama (and I explained that to the student), but to see if the student had any real understanding of the person he was supporting. Of course, he did not. I have also done the same thing with supporters of McCain.

Following blindly what others tell us is a dangerous proposition, and leads to trouble.

I don't want the congregation that I pastor to believe something about Scripture just because I tell them it is true. I want them to go home and look it up, read it, study it, break it apart, and see what it says. Just as I don't want my students at school to believe something just because I tell them it is so.

I believe we should support our children's teachers so long as they are actually teaching. When they (or I) stop doing that, then we should begin the process of seeking their removal. Bad teachers should be fired - not because they disagree with what you or I believe, but because they are not doing their jobs, or they are taking liberties with their jobs that undermine society's hope - which in my opinion is the next generation of those who have the ability to think.

Teaching, as any profession, is a hard job when done properly. Would more money be nice? Absolutely, but that is not specific to teaching - that is in all arenas of employment. Would more money solve the problem? Absolutely NOT! Money is not the answer.

I still contend on a daily basis that the children in my classroom care more about what I do with them when their parents care about what I do with them. It thrills me when a parent comes in to ask a question, has a concern, or wants me to help them to help their child at home with something I have assigned.

I am not a "super-teacher" by any stretch of the imagination, but I care about the kids. I lose sleep over them, I do my best to help them be the best they possibly can be, and I encourage them to think.

I think I may have left the original intent of this post, and even this thread, but so be it. I see both sides, understand the concerns of both sides, and encourage both sides to do something about it. Taking your kids out of the schools doesn't fix the schools. It probably will help your child if your child is in a broken school, but it doesn't help the school.

I have written too much as it is.
 
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There are a few things about our teachers union I disagree with, but many things I can not live without. I have been a member of Arizona's Educational Association (AEA) for my entire teaching career as are many staunch Republicans.



check out CEAI - they will do the same thing for a lot less money and they do not provide support to the ultra-liberals.


CEAI's website

RB



Interesting site. I will read through some of their material. Unfortunately the NEA, AEA, and GEA are all combined i my district. Supporting 1 by paying dues supports all at all 3 levels.




The same is true here, but we are not forced to join the local, which would in turn be supporting the National. Our local, MCEA, is a pretty good organization, but I cannot in good conscience belong to the TEA or the NEA, so I do not join the local (there are more reasons, but not relevant to this discussion).

CEAI is a good organization, and if you are not required to be a member of the local union, and you just want the professional liability protection without the political spin, they are a good organization.
 
Frankencub, same here man. My daughter pipes up the evening of the election and says, "dad, did you vote for Obama today?" I said NO WAY! and ask her why she thinks I should have voted for Obama? Well, we talked about it today in school and my teacher took a class poll and we decided that he's really cool and the teacher liked him so we "voted" as a class that he was the best candidate. When I explained the tax issues and where he would generate that money to pay those that don't get a paycheck, she started to get the picture. Her comment was that the teacher so much liked Obama and thought we should also.
 
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This is one of the sad realities about the internet ... the worse case scenerios are taped, posted on u-tube, and then misinterpreted to be an "everyday" occurance instead of an isolated incident! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

IMO public schools are still alot better than home schooling where children fail to learn critical socialization skills. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

A little conflict with your teacher is probably a good thing anyway ... it will toughen up a youngster! How many older (40+) guys here never got the strap, got punished, or were forced to stay in after school. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Were you scarred for life or did you get over it like 99.999% of everone else? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif



Applaude yourself all you want. I hope you don't hurt your arms doing it because you are wrong. Actually it is quite the opposite. How often, in real life, are you involved with only people who are exactly the same age as yourself? You're not, so the "socialization skills" learned in public schools are artificial. The dead time between classes can also be a time for breeding mischievousness too. Most people who homeschool their children do not isolate their children but have them active in a number of activities like Little League, church functions, volunteer work in the community, 4-H, etc., where they work and play with people of all ages just like they have to when they reach maturity.

When my children were homeschooled, and I wish they still were, they finished their work by 12:30 or 1:00 PM even though they didn't start until 9:00 or 10:00 AM (they had chores to do before starting. Dishes, make beds, clean up around the house, etc.). They had plenty of time left over to develop a work ethic by finishing the day cleaning up the yard or barn, cutting iron weed in the pasture, or checking and fixing fence as well as riding bikes or doing whatever they wanted. They both loved it! This also freed up a lot of family time that allowed us to take weekend trips like to go fishing, to Amish country, or to visit family in other towns. All this and they both scored very high on their achievement tests. When they went back to public school they never missed a step except they found public school boring. They were not used to the "hurry up and wait" setting. They liked going at their own pace and most of the stuff they were studying they had already covered at home. I see no downside to homeschooling if done even remotely right. The parents, however, have to be willing to put forth the effort or it can be for naught.
 
Why would a so-called loving parent entrust their children's education to the same government that so royally screws up everything else? That's insanity at it's worst. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
To becoame a teacher here, to have to have an undergraduate degree followed up by a masters in education ... that's 5 or 6 years of school depending upon the program you take.

Does the average parent have anything close to this amount of specialized education? ....NO! Case closed. Some may make out o'k with home schooling, but the majority are poorer for the experience or lack thereof. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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To becoame a teacher here, to have to have an undergraduate degree followed up by a masters in education ... that's 5 or 6 years of school depending upon the program you take.

Does the average parent have anything close to this amount of specialized education? ....NO! Case closed. Some may make out o'k with home schooling, but the majority are poorer for the experience or lack thereof. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



LOL. That's a lot of school for a job that doesn't pay. Here you need a bachelor degree. I guess that's necessary if you're dealing with multiple personalities, but with the home school curriculums that are out there, a kid could just about home school himself.

A story: A neighbor lady's daughter graduated from our local high school. She went to law school then landed a job with a firm in Boston. Evidently she had done really well in law school because her bosses were amazed that she had even though she had not been homeschooled. The neighbor lady is a public shcool teacher but advocates homeschooling.

Too many school teachers, I have talked to, advocate homeschooling for me not to believe that it is the better way to go...and we have a pretty decent school system here. Are there kids that would miss out on a decent education if they were homeschooled? Sure, but generally their parents are the kind that are too lazy to put forth the effort to school their kids so they just send them to the public baby-sitter.

Mike
 
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