Future may not be sooo dim!

Pbchucker

New member
Well I teach at a middle school that has 1100 plus 7th and 8th graders. We had our election today in school and the overall vote totals went to the Republican party. Republicans had 68% of the overall votes, all students voted on our campus in their Soc. Studies classes. Hopefully this is a good sign that our future isn't as gloomy as the press is stating and a good sign for future elections. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I have watched on TV some reporting about school kids voting at their school.
Many say they voted for Obama.When asked 'Why?",they had no answere.My guess is they voted that way because that is all they have heard from the news media.The poor kids have no clue as to why ??? Isn't this called "Brainwashing"?
 
Kyoti,

That happened to my daughter in the last National Election. Only it wasn't so much the TV, because mom and I do a pretty good job of countering all of the political BS on TV... It came, sadly, from the teachers and faculty of the elementary school that she was attending. When I asked her why she voted that way after all we'd talked about, she said she was told that her parent's were wrong in teaching her about politics since we weren't college educated.
 
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Kyoti,

That happened to my daughter in the last National Election. Only it wasn't so much the TV, because mom and I do a pretty good job of countering all of the political BS on TV... It came, sadly, from the teachers and faculty of the elementary school that she was attending. When I asked her why she voted that way after all we'd talked about, she said she was told that her parent's were wrong in teaching her about politics since we weren't college educated.



I hope you went straight up there to the school and barged in on the principle and asked him what it the [beeep] he thinks his staff is doing to your daughter!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif

After that I hope you went to the newspapers and told the story on local talk radio!

These liberal unionized teachers have unbelievable arrogance--and they are both underworked and overpaid, BTW.

I'm so mad after reading your post I could...

This is the exact reason I bust my hump to put my kids in private schools. I'm the head of my household and I don't need some Leftist government employee undermining me with my sons.

How dare these people have done that to her, what worthless human debris.
 
java,

It was the straw that helped finalize our decision to home school. We'd started them with pre-school and K. Then put them in PS for a little while. Fortunately the damage was minimal and we have two wonderful kids that are learning to think for themselves. More than once this week I've heard them discussing politics while playing outside (and they're only 9 and 10)...
 
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java,

It was the straw that helped finalize our decision to home school. We'd started them with pre-school and K. Then put them in PS for a little while. Fortunately the damage was minimal and we have two wonderful kids that are learning to think for themselves. More than once this week I've heard them discussing politics while playing outside (and they're only 9 and 10)...



OK, now I feel better.

Sad part is, they are still hurting your neighbors' kids... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
We started my son in 1st grade public school and after many many problems with school faculty and just a whole lot of B.S. we yanked him out and finished the year at home. The next year my wife just decided to keep home schooling him. He homeschooled all through the elementary years and went back to public middle school[6-8]. This was just good timing for us. He has excelled in public school and I couldn't be prouder. The first basic testing they did which was an assesment test, he scored some of the highest scores in the school and the highest reading comprehention score in the school. We can't take all the credit for him doing so well, he's a pretty sharp kid, but I can't help but think the homeschooling played a big part. He's now in highschool taking honors classes that there's no way in [beeep] my wife or I could have taught him. My daughter is in her 5th year of homeschooling now and it fits her perfectly. She's had some really bad health and will always have medical problems so school can be scheduled around that. It's not easy going this route at all. It's expensive for one thing. People don't realize the cost involved with homeschooling. Then you have the added factor of whoever's the teacher, isn't bringing in much income. The offset in cost is you get to pre program your own kids!
 
Javafour, thanks for bagging on my profession! I am really under worked by a being a 7th grade honors science teacher and coaching, I should put in more hours since I already spend an average of 60 hrs a week in on campus Monday through Friday. Yeah I am also overpaid too, my hourly wage comes out to $6.00 an hour four time on campus,and if I want a pay raise I have to pay for my college classes and pay for new endorsements and I already have TWO Masters Degrees!!! I wish I would get babysitters wages for each student that comes through my door. Babysitters wages would increase my pay 4 times my paycheck.

I don't know your schools in your area, but I do know the school that I am at and here are liberals and conservatives both. None of the teachers are cramming anything down their throats on which side they take. Are there influences that goes on, sure! I always make it well know about my hunting and shooting on the weekend and try to do my best at promoting them. I have worked on getting archery being taught in P.E., which is now part of our entire district P.E. classes. Now I am working on getting a Air riffle club going, but this will take a little more work.

Don't place all educators into your so called "liberals" classification, because there are a lot of us out here that are busting our butts off with minimal pay to PROTECT YOUR FUTURE in hunting/shooting sport and to make sure our children's children will be able to hunt/fish/shoot just like I did growing up.

I hate being labeled!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
 
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Javafour, thanks for bagging on my profession! I am really under worked by a being a 7th grade honors science teacher and coaching, I should put in more hours since I already spend an average of 60 hrs a week in on campus Monday through Friday. Yeah I am also overpaid too, my hourly wage comes out to $6.00 an hour four time on campus,and if I want a pay raise I have to pay for my college classes and pay for new endorsements and I already have TWO Masters Degrees!!! I wish I would get babysitters wages for each student that comes through my door. Babysitters wages would increase my pay 4 times my paycheck.

I don't know your schools in your area, but I do know the school that I am at and here are liberals and conservatives both. None of the teachers are cramming anything down their throats on which side they take. Are there influences that goes on, sure! I always make it well know about my hunting and shooting on the weekend and try to do my best at promoting them. I have worked on getting archery being taught in P.E., which is now part of our entire district P.E. classes. Now I am working on getting a Air riffle club going, but this will take a little more work.

Don't place all educators into your so called "liberals" classification, because there are a lot of us out here that are busting our butts off with minimal pay to PROTECT YOUR FUTURE in hunting/shooting sport and to make sure our children's children will be able to hunt/fish/shoot just like I did growing up.

I hate being labeled!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif



You guys need to reign in your ultra-Leftist union. For example, it just gave, what was it, $1 million of your dues to preserve gay marriage in CA?

Look at the nutty things your union stands for. You wonder why I keep my kids the heck away from government schools? Read this from your own union:

http://www.nea.org/handbook/images/resolutions.pdf

Savage's story about his daughter is all too common. With people subscribing to this kind of absolute destructive nonsense it is no wonder they pull stuff like his daughter suffered. Everything good about america your union stands against and everything bad they seem to support! And I sure don't see you guys stopping them...

I wrote that teachers generally are overpaid. If you are not then, as they say, the exception doesn't prove the rule. One also needs to look at the 9 month work month and the benefits packagesnefits packages. I also don't know about your personal Master's Degrees, but I do know the one year "Masters in Teaching" is pretty much of little actual consequence or difficulty to obtain.

According to the BLS, the average public school teacher in the United States earned $34.06 per hour in 2005.

The average public school teacher was paid 36% more per hour than the average non-sales white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker.

Full-time public school teachers work on average 36.5 hours per week during weeks that they are working. By comparison, white-collar workers (excluding sales) work 39.4 hours, and professional specialty and technical workers work 39.0 hours per week. Private school teachers work 38.3 hours per week.

The Detroit metropolitan area has the highest average public school teacher pay among metropolitan areas for which data are available, at $47.28 per hour, followed by the San Francisco metropolitan area at $46.70 per hour, and the New York metropolitan area at $45.79 per hour.


http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=16813

BTW, I have tons of other sources on this claim, should you like me to link them I'd be happy to oblige.
 
Java,

As a teacher who refuses to belong to the NEA for various, if not obvious, reasons, I agree with a lot of what you are saying about them. However, your statistics are just that, statistics. I know very few teachers who can get by with 36.5 hours per week. They may be paid based on 36.5 hours per week, but their actual time spent is considerably more than that. I arrive at school at 7:15 every morning and never leave before 3:45, and it is usually later than that. Take out the 20 or so minutes you actually have as "free time" for lunch, and you have at least 8 hours per day. Many Saturdays are spent in the building preparing for the coming week, as is much of the "unpaid" time during the summer. On any given day during the summer break, you can find 25-50% of the faculty at the school during some point of the day. It is not mandated, but it is necessary.

I know that many of the things I am privileged to do in the area I live in are frowned upon elsewhere in the nation, simply because I happen to live in a rural area that is quite conservative, and have lots of freedoms that many in the more public of the public schools have.

The NEA is liberalism gone mad. I can't think of one good thing they have done for me as a teacher, and even if they had, I couldn't in good conscience be a member of their organization. They stand in favor of most of the things I stand in opposition to.

I do ask and encourage you to be careful with your "lumping." I believe that the parents are the child's first and best teacher if they are willing to take on that responsibility. However, so many parents spend so little time actually educating their children (failing to parent them), and so much time trying to make their kids think they are "cool," that the child ends up in worse shape than he/she should have.

I have been in education quite a while now, and have yet to come across a "bad" kid. I have, however, encountered many kids who have horrible parents. The worst thing I do to some of the kids is send them home at the end of the day.

I don't complain about the money. I gave up a very lucrative career to begin teaching. I don't necessarily think I am underpaid. I would like to earn more money, but not so much that I am willing to abandon my calling to educate the nation's future to earn it.

I also realize there are two sides to every slice of ham. I understand your side, understand your concern, understand your passion, and, as a matter of fact applaud it. I wish all parents were as dedicated, passionate, and responsible as you are. Sadly, though, that is not the case. If it were, I'd be out of a job, and would appreciate the fact that I was not needed to stand in the place of parents who couldn't care less about the future of their children, who in reality are more concerned about the tax break they get for their child, and the free lawn mowing service than the development of their offspring.

Guess I have soap-boxed enough.

Not intended to be offensive - just informative.

RB
 
TN and Pb,

You two are some of the "far and few between" that I've ever seen in the system. Unfortunately for you, there are too many in the profession that aren't as dedicated and professional as you two come across. I know of many teachers (here locally) that don't put in the commitment that you stated, and they complain about the "lack of fair pay". Yet they drive pretty freakin' nice vehicles and live in some of the nicest houses in town. They also tend to forget that THEY CHOSE their career, no-one forced them. I know I will raise a few fists with this next comment, but I don't believe that "kids" fresh out of HS/College themselves, should be teaching anyone. We need more teachers that have "life" experience, and that are unbiased when teaching our children.
 
The point of my original post was to let people know that there is still hope, not get into a debate.

I have never belonged to a union, and I have never in my 16 years of teaching only worked under 50 hours a week when teaching. The majority of times, along with coaching, it turns out to over 60 hours on campus. This is not counting the hours at home grading homework or breaking down films when coaching.

I teach in AZ an am proud to be a teacher and never get out of bed not wanting to go to work. Just don't care to be lumped into a catagory with your East Coast Unionized Teachers who just collect a check. Just like you, I work hard for my money, but I don't overgeneralize when I disagree with someone's views or profession.

Enough with this, I guess I will just stick with the rifle and predator forums and stay out of this forum due to my beliefs and piece of mind.

Thank a teacher if you can read this!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
My daughter's school has done that. Her and her friends supporting the Republican ballot were in minority but stuck by one another under the wave of liberal gloating coming from sons and daughters of wellfare sponges.
 
Quote:
The point of my original post was to let people know that there is still hope, not get into a debate.

I have never belonged to a union, and I have never in my 16 years of teaching only worked under 50 hours a week when teaching. The majority of times, along with coaching, it turns out to over 60 hours on campus. This is not counting the hours at home grading homework or breaking down films when coaching.

I teach in AZ an am proud to be a teacher and never get out of bed not wanting to go to work. Just don't care to be lumped into a catagory with your East Coast Unionized Teachers who just collect a check. Just like you, I work hard for my money, but I don't overgeneralize when I disagree with someone's views or profession.

Enough with this, I guess I will just stick with the rifle and predator forums and stay out of this forum due to my beliefs and piece of mind.

Thank a teacher if you can read this!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



Well, I don't mean to attack either of you guys personally. I think it is pretty clear I object to a broken system controlled by the union that represents more Democrat Convention delegates than any other group.

I am especially not personally attacking non-unionized government school teachers in the Right to Work states, in which you both reside. These states are: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, (Guam, which Obama called a state but isn't), Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming.

BTW, I personally attended government schools from 1969-82 and they were on the west coast, in WA, where I am from, not the east coast. I attended two of the 'best' school districts in the state, Lake Washington and Mercer Island, and I don't have a single good thing to say about a single teacher I had after 2d grade. It was mostly a huge waste of time and I am largely self educated even though I am a college graduate and an alumnus of Seattle University School of Law. I'll just say that--other than wood and metal shop and one history teacher--most of my teachers were largely incompetent and leave it at that. I was also humiliated, singled out and even punished because of my conservative views and for trying to defend that point of view. Your colleagues ridiculed and mocked me in 1980 because I had a Reagan/Bush button on my gym bag (also used as a bookbag, back then we didn't do backpacks for books, lol) but I refused to take it off and I was delighted at their misery when he won. I had the NEA union shop steward--or whatever the term is--complete with her "Fight the New Right" button worn during class, prominently on her sweater, spend a whole period telling the kids how bad Reagan was and how I was a fascistic dupe (essentially).

Another dirty trick I remember was them, especially in elementary school, trying to scare us into talking our parents into voting for school levies. That should be criminal, scaring little kids like that over adult political issues. And this was the 1970s...I can only imagine how bad it is now.

No, in NEA states I don't believe things have gotten better--I think from what some of these guys are posting they are getting worse.

No offense meant, but why aren't decent guys like you two who are teachers standing up to this crap from within and doing something to salvage your occupation's reputation?

Also, I never wrote anything about hating teachers. In fact, my kids have them, but they are not unionized government employees, they work for private religious and private special needs schools where learning takes place without political indoctrination.

If I offended either of you then I sincerely apologize, I'm sure you are both great guys personally, but I have real issues with the NEA and its war on innocent kids and that government schools take so much money and mismanage it such that children are being failed while adults' pockets are being lined.

When I hear of experiences like I did with Savage's daughter and how they had to pull her out of the school it was so bad--yet they still get to pay the taxes--it just really burns me up, that's all.
 
I went to public school here in Texas from K-12. I had some good teachers and one excellent one in high school.

I have several friends who are teachers and/or adminstators who are conservative Christians here.

There are liberals in every profession, and I think as mentioned, public schools take a bad rap when bad parenting is as much to blame. I don't think teachers can be generalized as much as stated here.
 
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I went to public school here in Texas from K-12. I had some good teachers and one excellent one in high school.

I have several friends who are teachers and/or adminstators who are conservative Christians here.

There are liberals in every profession, and I think as mentioned, public schools take a bad rap when bad parenting is as much to blame. I don't think teachers can be generalized as much as stated here.



Sure, Sean, but Texas is a Right to Work state and the NEA isn't wielding control of your schools. In most of the country they are. In fact, the NEA in California is responsible for nearly doing away with homeschooling.

Check out the link I posted above to their own union website and read the resolutions of what they believe for yourself and you will likely be shocked by what you read. Most people I talk to are.

I believe the teacher's union is the 800 lb elephant in the living room that the decent teachers you mention, for some odd reason, don't stand up to.

I believe it is unreasonable for their union, speaking for that occupation, to take these stands and indoctrinate children and then be in any way surprised when people get upset.

Right or Left, I don't think kids should be politically indoctrinated in schools. I think the time is better spend learning how to read and write and do math and science, etc. instead of going on field trips to gay weddings and hearing how their non-college educated parents should not be teaching them politics at home.

And, BTW, now Obama is now in big debt to the NEA, so wait and see the goodies he tosses their way.

Only teachers themselves are going to be able to get that union under control, from the inside. Sadly I am aware of no organized effort by them to do so. I hope there is one and I am just not aware of it, but I have looked and seen nothing other than from the Right to Work folks.
 
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If I offended either of you then I sincerely apologize, I'm sure you are both great guys personally, but I have real issues with the NEA and its war on innocent kids and that government schools take so much money and mismanage it such that children are being failed while adults' pockets are being lined.



No offense here. I completely agree with you on most of what you had to say. I know that where I live is an exception to most rules, however we do have our "good-ole-boy network" that only promotes those who belong to it, and many in power who think they know everything.

We also have some of the NEA leftist members floating around, but they have long since stopped speaking to me about my need to join their group - they just don't know as much about their own group as I do, and therefore cannot carry on an intelligent conversation about it. They are simply lambs. I would call them sheep, but sheep can feed themselves. A lamb must be fed, meaning it is incapable of searching out for itself the nourishment it needs. That is how I view most of these people. They believe anything their sacred union tells them, and therefore have no idea about the truth.

One of the major problems with public education occurred when the federal government began sticking its nose in the mix. Constitutionally this is illegal. The education of the children belongs to the states, not to the federal government. They get by with it by attaching strings to their money, such as with No Child Left Behind. Probably one of the most useless and ridiculous pieces of legislation ever passed, all 16,000 pages of it. Don't get me wrong, I do not mind being held accountable for what I do. As a matter of fact, I encourage anyone who would like to see what goes on in my classroom to simply come sit in - teachers, parents, administrators, the public - it doesn't matter to me. But it is impossible to realistically hold me accountable for how a child does on a test. I digress.

I am not trying to stir up an argument, as I agree with most of what you have to say about the schools. They are in trouble, but there is hope.

This may create a stink, but I do not intend it to, so please read with that in mind. One of the missing elements in today's schools is good, honest, not-afraid-to-stand-up-and-be-heard parents. Mostly people like you men and women on here that have removed your child from the education system. I support and applaud your decision to do so, but without the voice and veracity of people like you waging a battle against the cancerous cells in the system, things will not get better, they will get worse. Without the voice of reason and sanity, those in charge will continue with their ill-fated plans and ideas, which only leads to more trouble.

Thank you for caring for your kids. That is a nice change to see. Your children, or the children with parents like you are the ones I love to have in my classes - they care, simply because they know that you care - it does make a difference in what I do, and it makes a difference in what the other children do.
 
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